Demon vs sage comparison

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · June 2012

I cannot decide what culti to take for my seeker (ignore the sig about my seeker, lol). I usually prefer sage over demon on almost all classes. Yet it seems that demon appeals to me more than sage on a seeker. I do like the idea on sage seekers a lot, but certain demon skills are making me reconsidering.

There is are my reasons reason,

-Demon spark for APS boost, that is because I would proc sky waltz effect faster and use staggering strike a lot more often that way with the increase of attack speed. Since I would be using a single sword, I decided I would proc waltz more often. I do prefer sage spark over demon though for the decreased damage taken still.
-Demon parchblade dance's extra second stun, I prefer to have higher stun duration than the higher chance to stun.
-Demon spirit bore's extra attack/defense level decreases more.
-Demon staggering strike has reduced cast times
-Demon ion spike has longer duration on metal debuff
-Demon heartseeker has longer range
-Demon edge blue seems to damage once more (extra hit?)
-Demon yataghan vortex has a chance to stun every hit which is very very useful for RBs (stun aggro) I find this a great reason why to go demon (biggest reason).
-Demon voidstep has a 33% chance (really?) of not consuming a spark, personally I prefer NOT to use a spark for this skill since it is just a tele stun.

Now for sage I find useful
-Sage spark for reduced damage taken
-Sage sky waltz for higher chance to proc (at least enough to proc to use staggering strike on cool down since I will spam that on single targets)
-Sage sword mastery (my seeker is pure VIT so I believe higher weapon attack bonus would be a good balance)
-Sage rock splitting cleave have range for the the ones that kite, it is easy to spam too
-Sage battousai does more damage, 5 extra chi from demon is too easy to get anyway
-Sage stalagstrike doing more damage, I prefer that over bleed and I don't know how much bleed damage the demon counterpart does and how long is the duration
-Sage gemini slash deals a lore more damage which I prefer over a 33% chance of slowing movement speed by 60%
-Sage unfetter blocks stun, which can really help a lot incase if you are about to get stunned.
-Sage adrenal numbness increases more defense level, since I PVE only, more accuracy is pretty much useless in PVE. My seeker even have enough accuracy for endgame anyways.
-Sage blade affinity, protect from negative effects (maybe it works on stuns too?)
-Sage quid pro Quo has a 45 second cool down (can transfer debuffs a lot faster which)

I'm not asking to go which path or which is better, I just want to see some opinions about both counterparts and how they work.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

I cannot decide what culti to take for my seeker (ignore the sig about my seeker, lol). I usually prefer sage over demon on almost all classes. Yet it seems that demon appeals to me more than sage on a seeker. I do like the idea on sage seekers a lot, but certain demon skills are making me reconsidering.

There is are my reasons reason,

-Demon spark for APS boost, that is because I would proc sky waltz effect faster and use staggering strike a lot more often that way with the increase of attack speed. Since I would be using a single sword, I decided I would proc waltz more often. I do prefer sage spark over demon though for the decreased damage taken still.
Don't forget the situation where you mostly Vortex or skill spam. APS is awkward in such situations
-Demon parchblade dance's extra second stun, I prefer to have higher stun duration than the higher chance to stun.
Most complain about the proc rate , but it is opinion.
-Demon spirit bore's extra attack/defense level decreases more.
-Demon staggering strike has reduced cast times
cast time is already too little , reduced cooldown enables better spamming
-Demon ion spike has longer duration on metal debuff
-Demon heartseeker has longer range
but sage has higher proc , that's why msot people use this skill for crowd control
-Demon edge blue seems to damage once more (extra hit?)
-Demon yataghan vortex has a chance to stun every hit which is very very useful for RBs (stun aggro) I find this a great reason why to go demon (biggest reason).
Stun vs more range ( dmg on ranged mobs ???) , yeah , depends on wha you like but the 1sec stun serves as a small interrupt. No experience here
-Demon voidstep has a 33% chance (really?) of not consuming a spark, personally I prefer NOT to use a spark for this skill since it is just a tele stun.

Now for sage I find useful
-Sage spark for reduced damage taken
-Sage sky waltz for higher chance to proc (at least enough to proc to use staggering strike on cool down since I will spam that on single targets)
dont forget sage staggerign has a bit lower cooldown
-Sage sword mastery (my seeker is pure VIT so I believe higher weapon attack bonus would be a good balance)
the actual difference isn't that big , but overall having either mastery is jsut helpfull
-Sage rock splitting cleave have range for the the ones that kite, it is easy to spam too
-Sage battousai does more damage, 5 extra chi from demon is too easy to get anyway
clear winner here
-Sage stalagstrike doing more damage, I prefer that over bleed and I don't know how much bleed damage the demon counterpart does and how long is the duration
DoT are generally not good , direct damage is much better. before the bleed weras off , you will have already killed the target. another clear winner
-Sage gemini slash deals a lore more damage which I prefer over a 33% chance of slowing movement speed by 60%
having range solves the problem with kiting or chasing , more damage is always better
-Sage unfetter blocks stun, which can really help a lot incase if you are about to get stunned.
anti-stun vs purify. Can't comment here, though i would always prefer another antistun.
-Sage adrenal numbness increases more defense level, since I PVE only, more accuracy is pretty much useless in PVE. My seeker even have enough accuracy for endgame anyways.
Sage all the way , a small accuracy for 5 minutes , no thanks
-Sage blade affinity, protect from negative effects (maybe it works on stuns too?)
I bet it works just like Tidal Protection , so that means a yes.
-Sage quid pro Quo has a 45 second cool down (can transfer debuffs a lot faster which)
Plus more silence time , you have heartseeker for immobilizing

I'm not asking to go which path or which is better, I just want to see some opinions about both counterparts and how they work.

I am not that experience yet , just adding some things with a bit logic. I prefer sage overall , but good luck on your choice.

Leranii - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Sage. Just go sage.

The only nice thing I can say about demon skills, is that they're usually cheaper in AH than their sage counter parts.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands · June 2012

Inb4 Zeon putting his penor in yer butt

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary · June 2012

Personally, i decided to go sage simply bcuz i blyv the seeker isnt a dps class and that maximising dph is the best way to succeed as a seeker. <--personal opinion b:pleased

Moreover, since u said u mainly pvp and in that situation u will b vortexing most of the time, the demon spark aps increase will make no difference wen doing triple spark+vortex (using a genie chi skill or spark pot), but with sage spark u take 20% less dmg which is always gud especially if u dont hav bp.

Another point, i think sage BA is not like tidal its more like cleric's purify meaning tht it wont work against stuns,silences, or sleep effects. But u can get rid of annoying slow effects any mobs throw at u as well as reduced attk rate/increased channeling from bosses.

What i blyv is the most important reason to go sage is sage unfetter. Sage unfetter is basicaly the only reliable antistun ur going to hav for all purposes (the other being last stand but by the time u use it ull b dead anyway b:chuckle).Antistuns r priceless against bishops in fcc, as well as those mobs in abba i think it is...as well as against bms and sins if u ever decide to pk.

To prevent this from becoming a daunting wall of text im gonna end it saying i know a few demon seekers who have been successful at it but the large majority of seekers are sage for a reason, so yeah the decision is up to u. b:surrender

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · June 2012

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am not that experience yet , just adding some things with a bit logic. I prefer sage overall , but good luck on your choice.

I prefer more sage skills than the demon ones as well, but what made me reconsidered a little bit was because of spirit bore, edged blur, vortex and void step (1/3 chance to finally not waste a spark on a leaping 3 second stun). Those skills appealed to me more than others. However, I don't want to go on one culti just because of a few skills.

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally, i decided to go sage simply bcuz i blyv the seeker isnt a dps class and that maximising dph is the best way to succeed as a seeker. <--personal opinion b:pleased

Moreover, since u said u mainly pvp and in that situation u will b vortexing most of the time, the demon spark aps increase will make no difference wen doing triple spark+vortex (using a genie chi skill or spark pot), but with sage spark u take 20% less dmg which is always gud especially if u dont hav bp.

Another point, i think sage BA is not like tidal its more like cleric's purify meaning tht it wont work against stuns,silences, or sleep effects. But u can get rid of annoying slow effects any mobs throw at u as well as reduced attk rate/increased channeling from bosses.

What i blyv is the most important reason to go sage is sage unfetter. Sage unfetter is basicaly the only reliable antistun ur going to hav for all purposes (the other being last stand but by the time u use it ull b dead anyway b:chuckle).Antistuns r priceless against bishops in fcc, as well as those mobs in abba i think it is...as well as against bms and sins if u ever decide to pk.

To prevent this from becoming a daunting wall of text im gonna end it saying i know a few demon seekers who have been successful at it but the large majority of seekers are sage for a reason, so yeah the decision is up to u. b:surrender

Personally I disagree that seekers can't DPS, they might not DPS as well as someone classes, but they can dish out a decent amount of DPS with waltz proc.

I am very well aware that vortex and APS doesn't work very well, but it is about the proc rate on the effects from the seeker. I still prefer sage spark over demon.

Unless the description maybe wrong, BA may not work like tidal, sage BA doesn't seem to purify, but can prevent from negative effects.

I would like to get anti stuns, which can be a great help for seekers.

Taco_Limey - Harshlands · June 2012

I went sage on my seeker. Some reasons... Hooray on demon spark you can go aps... Is a Seeker an Aps class.. really.., Also Sage Mastery= a lot more damage then demon. Ion Spike makes there resistance to metal go down more. Gemini Slash is a 1 hitting skill in sage form.

Just go Sage, My opinion

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary · June 2012

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally I disagree that seekers can't DPS, they might not DPS as well as someone classes, but they can dish out a decent amount of DPS with waltz proc.

I didnt say seeker cant DPS, i just said they werent a DPS class, in that to play them out to their full potential you shudn't really focus on maximising DPS when there r so many other roles that a seeker plays like debuffing,amping dmg with pets crit debuff, etv. b:laugh

laloner · June 2012

A lot of people seem to like demon for stunning during vortex. If this is for survivability then I question the wisdom. If you have bloodpaint surviving during vortex shouldn't be that hard so why use this to pick culti?

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary · June 2012

laloner wrote: »

A lot of people seem to like demon for stunning during vortex. If this is for survivability then I question the wisdom. If you have bloodpaint surviving during vortex shouldn't be that hard so why use this to pick culti?

I question the effectiveness of demon vortex, bcuz first it only has what a 15% chance of stunning and second as soon as u pop vortex in a PVP situation the person caught in it will most likely just run or if they're immobilised pop AD or IG. b:laugh

If it is in a PvE situation then yes it is effective but not as useful as the +2 m range from sage vortex. Because even if u hav demon vortex, u'll still get killed by mag mobs if u dont drop run and salvage fast enough. But with sage u just sit there and laugh as they die too b:chuckle

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · June 2012

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I question the effectiveness of demon vortex, bcuz first it only has what a 15% chance of stunning and second as soon as u pop vortex in a PVP situation the person caught in it will most likely just run or if they're immobilised pop AD or IG. b:laugh

If it is in a PvE situation then yes it is effective but not as useful as the +2 m range from sage vortex. Because even if u hav demon vortex, u'll still get killed by mag mobs if u dont drop run and salvage fast enough. But with sage u just sit there and laugh as they die too b:chuckle

sometimes i question the use of Vortex in PVP too , i mean , it is a clear suicide kill , you kill a bunch of people but most of the time end up being ***** by ........... everyone.

XXZeonXx - Harshlands · June 2012

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sometimes i question the use of Vortex in PVP too , i mean , it is a clear suicide kill , you kill a bunch of people but most of the time end up being ***** by ........... everyone.

You should try group vs group PvP.

And Spazz, I don't even bother anymore.

However, just to clarify, sage BA's added effect is tidal. It's the same buff, just lasts for a shorter amount of time.

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary · June 2012

XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »

However, just to clarify, sage BA's added effect is tidal. It's the same buff, just lasts for a shorter amount of time.

ty for that zeon, seems ill need to get my hands on tht now, plus how xctly does vortex help in group PvP, seems to me unless u time it perfecctly with a seal,sleep,stun or hf it wont b of much use b:shocked

Neodaystar - Sanctuary · June 2012

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I question the effectiveness of demon vortex, bcuz first it only has what a 15% chance of stunning and second as soon as u pop vortex in a PVP situation the person caught in it will most likely just run or if they're immobilised pop AD or IG. b:laugh

If it is in a PvE situation then yes it is effective but not as useful as the +2 m range from sage vortex. Because even if u hav demon vortex, u'll still get killed by mag mobs if u dont drop run and salvage fast enough. But with sage u just sit there and laugh as they die too b:chuckle

A lot of people seems to mis read the skill description of sage vortex...it increases "cast range" not the the range of the area of effect. This means that you can start casting sage vortex 2 meters from your target than demon vortex. In the game, you are either dealing with range mobs or melee mobs, and very often the range mobs attacks from over 12 meters away from you. Solo TM 69 and you'll see what I mean. That 2 meters don't really do very much.

_eVeReL_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

ty for that zeon, seems ill need to get my hands on tht now, plus how xctly does vortex help in group PvP, seems to me unless u time it perfecctly with a seal,sleep,stun or hf it wont b of much use b:shocked

If you like using vortex in mass pvp like tw, I recommend you get rank 8 recast sword and reroll until you get a wonderful battle formation (freeze and seals) or thundershock (freeze and lower defenses). These sword effects have a chance of locking a few of your targets for 4-5 secs for more damage. Or get the lunar duel swords with the darken effect - which has a lower chance of proc.

The chance to proc for the advance versions on the r8r is about 7%+ from my weapon tests. Since vortex deals 3 attacks worth of damage every iteration, it is very likely to proc for a few targets when used on a group of enemies.

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver · June 2012

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

A lot of people seems to mis read the skill description of sage vortex...it increases "cast range" not the the range of the area of effect. This means that you can start casting sage vortex 2 meters from your target than demon vortex. In the game, you are either dealing with range mobs or melee mobs, and very often the range mobs attacks from over 12 meters away from you. Solo TM 69 and you'll see what I mean. That 2 meters don't really do very much.

...

I dont mean to insult, but the description in game is actually false because i went testing on immobile mobs in morai, and cast range of vortex stay melee range, (tested by dropping an object on the ground at melee range, moved away and vortex atopathed to the item position), it does not increase by 2 meter. It is a range of effect increase. I did delta once with another seeker(he had lvl 10 vortex), we were at same spot and he coudl not hit the mobs because i was keepign them away form his range.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary · June 2012

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont mean to insult, but the description in game is actually false because i went testing on immobile mobs in morai, and cast range of vortex stay melee range, (tested by dropping an object on the ground at melee range, moved away and vortex atopathed to the item position), it does not increase by 2 meter. It is a range of effect increase. I did delta once with another seeker(he had lvl 10 vortex), we were at same spot and he coudl not hit the mobs because i was keepign them away form his range.

Well, that's really good to hear that the skill description is wrong. Thanks for clearing that up.

laloner · July 2012

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont mean to insult, but the description in game is actually false because i went testing on immobile mobs in morai, and cast range of vortex stay melee range, (tested by dropping an object on the ground at melee range, moved away and vortex atopathed to the item position), it does not increase by 2 meter. It is a range of effect increase. I did delta once with another seeker(he had lvl 10 vortex), we were at same spot and he coudl not hit the mobs because i was keepign them away form his range.

TY, thats useful info.

Demon vs sage comparison

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