Streamlining the early-game experience

frankieraye · June 2012

We're looking to streamline the early game experience (levels 1-30), and we'd like your input regarding your own experience as you made your way though this level bracket. Do you recall any specific stumbling blocks that you think could be ironed out? Are there any areas within this bracket that you constantly have to help noobs with?

All feedback is appreciated

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · June 2012

The spiritual cultivation could stand to be shorter. Especially the part at the mines. Go kill pyrogoths! Go back and kill more pyrogoths! -__-

Whatever you do please don't touch the kun kun quest, its like one of the best parts!

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary · June 2012

Perhaps a little more exp for all the quests!

Nah but really they get monotonous having to go back and forth as venus said.
Maybe remove some of those quests and put in less with more exp to make up for it?

XxZavxX - Raging Tide · June 2012

#1 thing is travel time....

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary · June 2012

XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »

#1 thing is travel time....

Indeed. I am sure that kind of boring traveling can drive away potential players.
Really guys, do a overhaul on the quests for all lvls. They simply give too little to desire completion.

Buff_me - Raging Tide · June 2012

+1 for shorter Culti.

Looking for update of forum titles b:avoid

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Revamp the 29 cultivation. None of the quests in that level range are hard persay, but unless you have a squad to take on some of the mini bosses (which is rare to find these days) you either need a higher level to help you or come back later when you can do it yourself sadly.
Perhaps an increased amount of potion drops in that level range. Some of the players can't afford charms and I see them sitting and meditating waiting for their hp pool to regenerate enough to fight more monsters.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · June 2012

Ohhh! The wings! It really sucks for new comers that it is a quest now requiring dq items. It's bad enough getting around without them before level 30.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · June 2012

I thought those levels were irrelevant outside of spiritual cultivation.b:chuckle
In any case, for the Archosaur arc of one's cultivation, how about compiling all of those mobs into one "hit list" instead of having to go back and forth to get the next target?

It would certainly spare everyone of the annoying trips...

frankieraye · June 2012

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The spiritual cultivation could stand to be shorter. Especially the part at the mines. Go kill pyrogoths! Go back and kill more pyrogoths! -__-

Whatever you do please don't touch the kun kun quest, its like one of the best parts!

Don't worry, you're not the only one who looks back fondly at the Kun Kun quest.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · June 2012

The staunch worms for the tideborn are very annoying if you're a psychic.

frankieraye wrote: »

Don't worry, you're not the only one who looks back fondly at the Kun Kun quest.

Good. XD

Yusiong - Lost City · June 2012

XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »

#1 thing is travel time....

+2 travel time was always a pain. The only other part I hated was when you started working the culti around Orchid temple. When you have to start collecting the bloodjade grail, core soulgem, and cyan wand those could be easier to obtain a bit I think. I have spent almost an hour and a half killing mobs for just 1 of those drops before.

shopitup · June 2012

Streamlining? How could it be any more streamlined? With all the quests available at those levels, they're over and done with in no time.

Yes, the level 20-29 culti chain is arguably the longest and most frustrating in the game. But here's the thing: if you're still learning the game, they're just another part of the quest series, possibly a part you want to prioritize but not otherwise remarkable --- and if you're hypering up an alt, hypering those quests alone takes you from 20 to 30, and then that's all done.

Yes, being unable to fly those levels is frustrating. But if you're hypering up an alt, you've surely got a set of level-10 cash shop wings to lend it, or at least you can afford one --- and if you're not, learning how to navigate the map on foot, avoid mobs, and pick your battles is half of what you're SUPPOSED to learn before 30. (Which is why the elder's blessing armor shouldn't be in the game, it's so OP you fail to learn to pick your battles!)

Anyway, the free level-30 flyer sucks, as it must because it exists as an incentive to cash shop something better. Want to improve lowbie flying? Make tideborn and earthguard low-level flyers upgradeable. That's not gonna happen, is it, because PW-CN have evidently decided it's not in their economic interest to make it so, haven't they?

Geezus hoppin' haploid kee-rist, I usually say taking a char to level 30 is the minimum fair test for what a class is like, precisely because it's so fast and easy to do! There's nothing there that needs streamlined.

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Ah... Kun Kun... XD I remember tricking so many people about him.... "Don't touch it he'll MURDER YOU! Best Baddest Boss in the game!" XD

I concur with others the Spiritual Culti for the 20s is REDICULOUS!!! >.<

Also At 30 you get those three quests to kill 50 of three different types of mobs near Silver Pool, thats 150 monsters it takes FOREVER to kill by yourself, finding a party for it is nigh impossible these days.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver · June 2012

generally the quests could use about 1/4 less mobs but 4x more reward
its not really worth doing them

and its pretty annoying to kill the same mob over and over
especially since the low areas are deserted, not many people to squad there

pretty unlike the time when old players lvled
we almost always had people to randomly squad with
(they are all 100+ now ofc and hyper lvl alts cuz quests are boring once you did them)

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands · June 2012

weird i thought they revamped the 29 culti already

Yulk_owns - Lost City · June 2012

frankieraye wrote: »

We're looking to streamline the early game experience (levels 1-30), and we'd like your input regarding your own experience as you made your way though this level bracket. Do you recall any specific stumbling blocks that you think could be ironed out? Are there any areas within this bracket that you constantly have to help newbs with?

All feedback is appreciated

Corrected, sorry for editing your post but honestly, levels 1-30 already have too much things at their hands. You can get to 30 in a day or two and easily get coins (and I don't mean by power level) even more so with those elder blessing equips. It has become stale, I suggest it should not be messed with anymore because people are just power leveling more than just doing actual quests.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · June 2012

When I first made it to Plume I was overwhelmed with the sheer number of NPCs that were there.

Over time I have to learn a great deal of these NPCs are totally useless and serve no game function whatsoever even though they had a misleading title that made it sound as if they had a function.

-Firework Dealer
-Awards Agent (2 of them)
-Cultivation Trainer
-Beautician
-Black Market Vendor Tu
-Arena Manager
-Homeland Guard

These NPCs do nothing at all. They should just be removed or renamed with a generic name to make it apparent they have no real function.

A good chunk of the other NPCs only have a function for high level players:

-Messenger of Sages
-Martial Arts Master
-Tournament Agent
-Arena Teleporter
-Bookmerchant

These NPCs have limited uses even at high levels and don't need to be in the starter cities.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · June 2012

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I first made it to Plume I was overwhelmed with the sheer number of NPCs that were there.

Over time I have to learn a great deal of these NPCs are totally useless and serve no game function whatsoever even though they had a misleading title that made it sound as if they had a function.

-Firework Dealer
-Awards Agent (2 of them)
-Cultivation Trainer
-Beautician
-Black Market Vendor Tu
-Arena Manager
-Homeland Guard

These NPCs do nothing at all. They should just be removed or renamed with a generic name to make it apparent they have no real function.

A good chunk of the other NPCs only have a function for high level players:

-Messenger of Sages
-Martial Arts Master
-Tournament Agent
-Arena Teleporter

These NPCs have limited uses even at high levels and don't need to be in the starter cities.

This too. What are the npcs supposed to be used for? Black Market vendor says hes a repairman according to database. But what does he repair? Is the beautician supposed to give out advanced makeover scrolls?

The award agent appears to be for an event we don't have, something about latterns. If that's the case he need only appear during events.

I do personally like them putting stuff for high levels in starter cities, gives high levels a reason to afk there. And seeing high levels with their shineys was a fun part of being a new player.

Speaking of which, add more shiny things. Seriously. It's more fun for new players to have shiny things.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear · June 2012

I find the early levels to be rather unrepresentative of the game. The last time I really had to go through those levels was well over 2 years ago (now I can just let any alts tag along while my cleric grinds DQ), but to my knowledge not much has changed in those levels since then.

To be frank, leveling before about 40 is boring as hell. It consists of doing grindy quests for quite a while (before people start showing off how fast they can level an alts through just quests, it's much harder when you're an absolute newbie).

This gives them the impression that all of the game is like this and they'll be way more tempted to resort to power leveling, which ruins everything except endgame.

I'd suggest removing some of the low level quests and adding something more entertaining to do, like a low-level Bounty Hunter quest. Here's an idea:

-Players of level 9-39 can get a Bounty Hunter Trainee quest from the elder of their race every day.
-This will require them to talk to the Old Swordsman in a certain FB depending on their level, which would look a little like this:
*level 9-19: FB 51
*level 20-29: FB 59
*level 30-39: FB 69
-They will also receive a scroll that teleports them there.
-The Old Swordsman will give them a rather overpowered blessing, perhaps like this:

Bounty Hunter's Blessing
Physical Attack + 1500
Magical Attack +1500
Slaying Level + 400
Warding Level + 400
Vitality + 300
MP Regen + 200
Expires when leaving the area

Probably needs balancing, but you get the idea. It temporarily powers them up to the level of someone who actually does the real BH of that dungeon, and could join such squads (they would only be missing some skills due to their level, but I'm not sure if ''temporary skills'' are possible)

-They then need to kill the BH boss of that day in that dungeon.

-Afterwards, the quest auto-completes and teleports them to their race's town elder.

The reward would be a considerable amount of XP for that level, as well as a bit of money (50-100k).

Newbies would really get a better impression of what the game is like this way.

Asone - Raging Tide · June 2012

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I first made it to Plume I was overwhelmed with the sheer number of NPCs that were there.

Over time I have to learn a great deal of these NPCs are totally useless and serve no game function whatsoever even though they had a misleading title that made it sound as if they had a function.

-Firework Dealer
-Awards Agent (2 of them)
-Cultivation Trainer
-Beautician
-Black Market Vendor Tu
-Arena Manager
-Homeland Guard

These NPCs do nothing at all. They should just be removed or renamed with a generic name to make it apparent they have no real function.

A good chunk of the other NPCs only have a function for high level players:

-Messenger of Sages
-Martial Arts Master
-Tournament Agent
-Arena Teleporter
-Bookmerchant

These NPCs have limited uses even at high levels and don't need to be in the starter cities.

^
This.

and the knocking down the 29 cultivation travel time. Both around The Mines and Shining Tidewood.

I'm going to put in a personal view on this though. I can't help but feel this is only beneficial to the players with alts that have plved their way thru FC.

Like said here:

shopitup wrote: »

With all the quests available at those levels, they're over and done with in no time.

Yes, the level 20-29 culti chain is arguably the longest and most frustrating in the game. But here's the thing: if you're still learning the game, they're just another part of the quest series, possibly a part you want to prioritize but not otherwise remarkable --- and if you're hypering up an alt, hypering those quests alone takes you from 20 to 30, and then that's all done.

In which case I going to have to say I agree with this:

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I thought those levels were irrelevant outside of spiritual cultivation.b:chuckle
In any case, for the Archosaur arc of one's cultivation, how about compiling all of those mobs into one "hit list" instead of having to go back and forth to get the next target?

It would certainly spare everyone of the annoying trips...

^
If you have new players in the game I'd go with what this player is suggesting.

There's only one problem with this though. An experienced player might not have a problem since he would know how to stay alive, but a newbie might find it hard to keep up a good stock on potions if he/she is not charmed. Space can be very limited in early levels since new players tend to pick up all drops. No NPC out of town to buy or sell anything from.

Sheogorath - Momaganon · June 2012

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

weird i thought they revamped the 29 culti already

That they did. The amount of mobs required to kill for each quest has been lowered. For example: the quest in the mines where you had to kill 15 of each of the 2 types of wolves has been lowered to only 5 of each.

Also, the bloodjade grail quest and other drop quests around orchid temple have had the drop rate for said items increased enormously already. I find that whenever I do those quests now I get the drop from the first or second mob I kill.

I don't think potions are that big of a deal either because the supply stash now gives potions for the appropriate levels.

I agree with the removal of worthless npcs though because those always confused me when I was a noob. Also I like the suggestion about shiny things :P

Yulk_owns - Lost City · June 2012

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I find the early levels to be rather unrepresentative of the game. The last time I really had to go through those levels was well over 2 years ago (now I can just let any alts tag along while my cleric grinds DQ), but to my knowledge not much has changed in those levels since then.

To be frank, leveling before about 40 is boring as hell. It consists of doing grindy quests for quite a while (before people start showing off how fast they can level an alts through just quests, it's much harder when you're an absolute newbie).

This gives them the impression that all of the game is like this and they'll be way more tempted to resort to power leveling, which ruins everything except endgame.

I'd suggest removing some of the low level quests and adding something more entertaining to do, like a low-level Bounty Hunter quest. Here's an idea:

-Players of level 9-39 can get a Bounty Hunter Trainee quest from the elder of their race every day.
-This will require them to talk to the Old Swordsman in a certain FB depending on their level, which would look a little like this:
*level 9-19: FB 51
*level 20-29: FB 59
*level 30-39: FB 69
-They will also receive a scroll that teleports them there.
-The Old Swordsman will give them a rather overpowered blessing, perhaps like this:

Bounty Hunter's Blessing
Physical Attack + 1500
Magical Attack +1500
Slaying Level + 400
Warding Level + 400
Vitality + 300
MP Regen + 200
Expires when leaving the area

Probably needs balancing, but you get the idea. It temporarily powers them up to the level of someone who actually does the real BH of that dungeon, and could join such squads (they would only be missing some skills due to their level, but I'm not sure if ''temporary skills'' are possible)

-They then need to kill the BH boss of that day in that dungeon.

-Afterwards, the quest auto-completes and teleports them to their race's town elder.

The reward would be a considerable amount of XP for that level, as well as a bit of money (50-100k).

Newbies would really get a better impression of what the game is like this way.

Level 1-39 is NOT a grind fest, I passed 50 like over 30 times without much time on my hands. Your suggestions are very bad with the BH trainee quests (especially for 9-18), as if BH isn't enough... The annoying thing about quests is that you have to travel all over. There is nothing wrong with the quests otherwise. Heck, you can get to 60 without a single BH. If that would happen then they would have to alter the BHs to make it more challenging rather than a walk in the park. BH blessing for those levels? Are you kidding me? You're telling me low levels should just one shot everything? You're asking for even more hand outs...

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

-Players of level 9-39 can get a Bounty Hunter Trainee quest from the elder of their race every day.
-This will require them to talk to the Old Swordsman in a certain FB depending on their level, which would look a little like this:
*level 9-19: FB 51
*level 20-29: FB 59
*level 30-39: FB 69
-They will also receive a scroll that teleports them there.
-The Old Swordsman will give them a rather overpowered blessing, perhaps like this:

Bounty Hunter's Blessing
Physical Attack + 1500
Magical Attack +1500
Slaying Level + 400
Warding Level + 400
Vitality + 300
MP Regen + 200
Expires when leaving the area

Probably needs balancing, but you get the idea. It temporarily powers them up to the level of someone who actually does the real BH of that dungeon, and could join such squads (they would only be missing some skills due to their level, but I'm not sure if ''temporary skills'' are possible)

-They then need to kill the BH boss of that day in that dungeon.

-Afterwards, the quest auto-completes and teleports them to their race's town elder.

The reward would be a considerable amount of XP for that level, as well as a bit of money (50-100k).

Newbies would really get a better impression of what the game is like this way.

Kinda like the Heavenly Blessing you get in City of Abominations? They get progressively less beneficial as you get to a higher level.

Yulk_owns - Lost City · June 2012

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Kinda like the Heavenly Blessing you get in City of Abominations? They get progressively less beneficial as you get to a higher level.

400 slaying / warding levels = God mode PVE making low levels get so much in an instance... -_- May as well just do FC power level -_-"

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

400 slaying / warding levels = God mode PVE... -_-

I'm sure it would be more balanced then that. His was just for pure example.

Yulk_owns - Lost City · June 2012

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm sure it would be more balanced then that. His was just for pure example.

Hopefully, but still giving that example is a purely sad attempt of a blessing... I am against the idea all the way.

Renza - Raging Tide · June 2012

Why bother from 1-30? why not from 1-80 instead?, 1-30 is a peice of cake in general, just annoying due to all the damn running if you quest at the archo area, mainly because you have to with the culti being long there, so questing at the EG area is "slightly" pointless as you won't keep up with the culti.

Suggestion: Have a mount created that works from levels 1-30 or 1-40, simply because all the running is a massive turn off for newbies today.

The Human quest hub from 1-20 needs a total revamp, it looks very very outdated compared to every other area and it's by far the most painfully annoying area to do, in terms of the original 3 classes, from easyiest to hardiest I'd have to say it's perhaps Beastkind>Elfs>Humans.

On a last note, I say 1-80 simply because the exp after perhaps 45-50 or so, gets so very very low, that it becomes such a grind that questing is no longer viable for time spent finding quest mobs+handing in compared to time spent just killing high exp mobs/aoe leveling.

Knocking new power level scrubs out of the theory for a second, if questing was made viable again, meaning doing a quest at level 70 didn't give 1 pathetic % and instead gave a good 10-15% per quest, then with the low amount of quests at the much later levels, it could actually start to be viable again, the 10-15% was just random, perhaps just multiply the exp gained from all quests starting from 50 or 60 by about x10-x15, then newbies can actually level up properly instead of waiting for each days BH to do simply because it's the only worth while quest exp, then they log off and wait for the next day.

If Frankie could get that done and sent to the devs of what ever, this game would actually be playable again and not a total failure in favour to the rich/cashshoppers that just power level them selfs.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear · June 2012

level limit FF or at least hypers so lower levels would be populated.

a new player enters the game, and they see no activity they may figure they entered a dead game, and decide to search out more populated pastures.

nobody gets hooked before level 20, and if you lose them before they reach a hook point, you've lost a customer.

Quilue - Sanctuary · June 2012

The early cultivation quests could simply be assigned together instead of making people walk back and forth to the same area just to kill a different kind of mob.

Exp isn't really a problem because you'd level fast anyway. There are quests beyond lv 30 that could stand an increase in reward like the "kill 50 of this, 45 of this, 50 of this" quest that was like WTF I just killed 150 mobs. At least gime a choice of 3star weapon or something for those lol...

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear · June 2012

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Hopefully, but still giving that example is a purely sad attempt of a blessing... I am against the idea all the way.

It needs a large amount of extra attack because the immense level difference between the newbies and mobs/bosses reduces damage just like [?] mobs do for everyone.

It's a blessing that only affects PvE for one single dungeon a day, and expires when you leave the dungeon (= you can't use it again until the next day, it's not like FB bosses respawn anymore).

It also needs to be solely for PvE so you can't drop out of the squad and **** your teammates in PK b:chuckle

Also, I knew this would happen:

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(before people start showing off how fast they can level an alts through just quests, it's much harder when you're an absolute newbie)

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Level 1-39 is NOT a grind fest, I passed 50 like over 30 times without much time on my hands.

You only skimmed over my post and got attracted to the coloured text of the blessing, didn't you?

Streamlining the early-game experience

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