the better dagger for sages?

There is no real answer.

r9 = great dph, but unpredictable and no -int. Option with belt for the +10 def lvl bonus.
g13 nv = reliable and easier chi building, but rather small dph.

Survivability wise, any of the "end-game" options at +10 will heal more then you got hp. Soloing ability is more about armor and skill (as in knowing when to spark, knowing when to activate tidal/focussed mind, etc) then about weapon granted you got to a g13 or higher weapon with good refines.

Permaspark is easily achieved by a sin even without 4.0 aps. I think this concept is rather outdated when bosses tend to die fast enough for any class to be permanently sparked during the fight. I don't see dps as much as a factor of choice either. I think you should base on wether you prefer unreliable with high spike damage (r9) or a very predictable damage outcome (G13). Both will be "sufficient" and you just talk about a few sec more or less on a boss. If you really want speed, I always suggest to take G13 +10 and investing the coin difference with G15/G16/r9 in charger orbs and chi stones for holy path.

Just about GoF. With good refined r9 daggers and sage bp, GoF won't hurt you really. R9 has the best dph around, and is there for the safest weapon to have GoF on. If you opt for a build sharded with att lvls, the effect of GoF on your hp is pretty much 0 on 90% of the bosses.

<== Sage sin with r9.

I have no love b:cry

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have no love b:cry

Bronies get no love

XD Well I'm sort of out of this discussion since I personally haven't had experience playing as a sage sin.

But what's interesting on my server is that a lot of r9 sins that I have known that were demon all changed to sage. This is 3-4 of them.

_WoofWoof_ - Lost City wrote: »

Which dagger would be more helpful for a sage sin? r9 1st recast daggers or G13 NV? I know this sounds very noob lol but i'm talking about soloing ability, as barrier thorn permasparks with 4.0 base and has no zerk so would i have better survivability with them? also i'd like to know the dps difference between the 2 it can help me decide.

Bad question there.

The two weapons are exactly the opposite. R9 is high DPH with lower APS, which results in high, but inconsistent damage. Especially due to GoF. G13 Nirvana has lower DPH with the best APS in the game, which means it's the most consistent assassin weapon in the game.

As for the DPS, it depends a lot. If we're comparing average DPS, then we have to consider the shards, blessing and rings. For example, do both setups use DoTs? Do both setups use R9 ring? Do both setups use Jones' Blessing or does one use O'Malley's? For DPS, there's also the issue that the G13 at 4.0 gets the 5% penalty.

For survivability, it's a complicated question. With the ridiculously high DPS of R9, you could easily drop to 2.5 on a lot of bosses and still be able to spark consistently, while gaining at least the +10 Defense Levels via R9 belt.

Personally, having recently achieved 4.0 with G13, I'm not impressed. In fact my current plan is to get a G15 with -0.05 and SS or GoF.

If I had to pick a single go-to weapon for Sages, it'd be a G15 Nirvana with 2x-0.05 interval and SS or GoF. This weapon would have more DPS than R9 and DPH that is sufficiently high.

I had some PWcalcs here for all the setups mentioned but the post was cut at some point, so I'll just post the order:
2x-0.05 G15 > R9 > 1x 0.05 G15 > G13

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

XD Well I'm sort of out of this discussion since I personally haven't had experience playing as a sage sin.

But what's interesting on my server is that a lot of r9 sins that I have known that were demon all changed to sage. This is 3-4 of them.

b:laugh I think pretty much everyone is out of the discussion then. I don't know any sage who tried both r9 and G13 of equal gem and refine lvl in the +10~12 range. Everyone will admit you got enough experience with the class and the weapons to have a reliable opinion.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I had to pick a single go-to weapon for Sages, it'd be a G15 Nirvana with 2x-0.05 interval and SS or GoF. This weapon would have more DPS than R9 and DPH that is sufficiently high.

b:shocked I'd predict a 2x -0.05 int + GoF G15 dagger would hurt like hell though. On the users own hp I mean.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I had to pick a single go-to weapon for Sages, it'd be a G15 Nirvana with 2x-0.05 interval and SS or GoF. This weapon would have more DPS than R9 and DPH that is sufficiently high.

Trust me that weapon is something else. Theres a sin on HT who can cut through my 30k hp and a charm with that just by auto attacking unsparked in a couple of seconds. b:surrender

_WoofWoof_ - Lost City wrote: »

yes double interval with SS/GoF is awesome but the reason i didn't include it is i probably wouldn't wanna bother with all the rerolls to get it lol

I knew you'd come to this thread btw b:avoid

Well my last suggestion would probably have to be G16 Nirvana. Getting 1x -0.05 interval on that is super easy, as it's roughly 1:7 odds. Using this as my basis, PWDB for the weapons and a handy spreadsheet someone on the forums made, I'm getting:

2.86 R9 +12: 224,746 average DPS (78,582 average DPH)
3.33 G15 +12 (with SS): 204,498 average DPS (61,410 average DPH)
3.33 G16 +12: 233,955 average DPS (70,256 average DPH)
4.0 G13 +12: 195,291 average DPS (48,822 average DPH)