is this still Pay to win at high lvls

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · June 2012

why do ppl who left game return ask for stupid question like is this still pay to win

does ppl iq get less nowdays i mean if i left cos i feel its un fair why come back

its obvios a YES b:bye

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · June 2012

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Someone forgot about Seekers and Barbs it seems (yeah I know you tried to "explain away" Barbs by saying that they use Pangu or R8 Recast axes but that's just nonsense. A Cata Barb's "true end game" will always be full R9) b:laugh

I'll give you that Casters in general don't benefit from R9 all that much compared to just getting G16 Nirvana. But for any physical damage class (excluding archers of course for obvious reasons) interested in PK/PVP... and assuming they have the funds... they would be stoned stupid to bypass R9's GOF for any alternative add that 3rd cast Nirvana has to offer.

I have a R9 Seeker and as you know the class are basically skill spammers. Therefore damage per hit is extremely important to me... damage per second is secondary. And really the only way I'm competing against other R9's in TW is with pure spike damage. The fact that Nirvana 3rd cast may have slightly higher weapon damage is meaningless to me since, without that 20% chance to zerk (and even better when it stacks with crit), I'm not bypassing the charms of half the OP geared people out there.

There is a youtube video floating around showing a R9 +12 Barb arma zerk critting a full R9 Seeker with defense level buffs for 25K. Lets see +12 G16 3rd Cast Nirvana Barb pull that off. b:chuckle

ok i am r9 geared and i consider ur having a brain cell of a 5 year old that say r9 in his puny head.

poleaxe is posible the worst weapon a barb might want cos gap betwen hit is terrible and only way to kill is crith serk anything robe.

3rd cast give you 40 attack lv with a much better balance between the gap of +12
flame whatever gem

the only thing i agree total cost is cheaper just get r9 axe in comparasion with 3rd cast nv

but if arma is the only damage ur gona be using i feel sorry for you as it might miss
and then ups you lost halv ur hp with two spark.

plz just cos ur jelly of ppl with r9 do not take it on the rest of the r9 players as i am not interested in r9 poleaxe whatsoever and my gear is +10 r9 armor

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · June 2012

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

Saw a barb last night, his name was Vako on the RT server. He had the 2nd cast vana axes +10 and at least 2 sets of nirvana armor, the chest and legs. a lunar cape. and deicides.

i dont know how much hp he had, but he sure did hit like a wall of bricks (we just did a straight up duel, no spark, no running, just stand there and use your skills and auto attack

i got him to 2/3 his hp by the time he beat me

im r8+4

auto attack and decide there you have it

aps is insane at low refine as you said +4

vs his decide and +10 2nd cast nv axes

my 2nd cast +8 +1 garnet gem dual hammer have a base of 12000-15000 demon barb
but i am 564 str build
in two week ill get new sock and +10 my hammer hopping for a good sale

str is better then dex in my book especially with ss or gor

Hexalot - Dreamweaver · June 2012

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're wrong, who are you to say who's weapon is true end-game. I'd rather have a barb with an extra 10 JoSD's than a barb with a GoF axe pulling a cata.

I'm wrong ?

Why don't you read my post again. I said nothing about Gof axe being Barb's end game. I said full Rank 9 would be Barb's end game. As to the "who am I to say what is true end game"... well tell me... how many times have you seen a Barb fully shard their Nirvana or even R8 recast gear with JoSDs or Vit stones ?

Guess which "end game gear" those are typically saved for ?

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also no, a full +12 Third cast nirvana barb won't hit 25k on that set-up on a seeker. But if you want to stroke your e-peen for having a high hit on HA classes on a barb, then sure go R9. But it still doesn't change the fact that if you play your class right and target the right classes (in TW or PK) that third cast nv is just as effective. If a +12 R9 barb or +12 third cast NV barb drop an arma on an LA or AA class regardless of GoF if they crit they will most likely one shot them, which the game isn't about in the first place. Walking up to someone and one-shotting them isn't end game. Knowing how to play is part of end-game not just relying on one shotting others b:shutup

LOL... and guess who was just castigating me for "daring" to state what true end game is ?

And now here you are blithely giving your version of what "end game" is too. b:chuckle

Anyway... if we're talking about the weapon only... then clearly R9 axe is hardest hitting weapon a Barb can have. If we're talking about total end game gear for a Barb, then full Rank 9 still wins since the full set has more defense levels than any other gear outside of 2nd/3rd cast R9... which helps Barb's tankabilty even more.

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And Seekers aren't supposed to be main DDs in my opinion, they're support. With their debuffs and all sorts of fancy stuff they can cast from a long range they're better off supporting their DDs than acting as a DD. And I don't know who you're trying to attack on your seeker but if you're going to have a seeker with third stage nv dual swords hitting an AA class I'm pretty sure you will most likely be able to take them down, especially with that fancy new skill that gives you another..40 or something attack levels.

Seeker's main debuffs (the Shatters) don't work in PVP and the debuff's you get from stances are chance based and due to some kind of glitch or something, it messes with your main immobilizing skill heart seeker.

And just so you know... my Seeker has on multiple occasions one shot full R9 Psys in white Voodoo with Zerk Crits. Not many classes can lay claim to that.

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And then you have the choice, IF you are rich enough and really want the GoF you can go for R9. BUT before Seekers (good example since you already mentioned them) were nothing to be afraid of because their R8 weapon sucks and their second cast NV weapons suck as well and the cost from going from either one of those two to R9 or even R8 recast (which you'd have to get lucky to get GoF on or SS) was way too high.
But now with their new skill that gives attack levels (45 attack levels extra if you've got 5 pieces of third stage nv and the weap) + that numbness skill that gives 30 def levels + 15 from a third stage nv set and you can QPQ the def level debuff from that skill on yourself. Yeah, 135 attack levels on a G16 weapon that refines higher than R9 and starts out with higher base stats isn't anything to scoff at. You may lack GoF but you will take out most AA classes with that set-up. So you don't NEED R9, either learn which classes to target and be offensive and when to be supportive.

I'm sorry but you seem to be really reaching here. The new Morai skill you're talking about where you can increase your attack levels while QPQing the defense debuff gan be gotten by R9 toons as well so I'm not sure why you "seem" to be implying that it suddenly gives some "great advantage" to Nirvana 3rd cast at the expense of R9 and everything else. b:chuckle

And yes you will take out mostNirvana geared AA (maybe even some LA) classes with your set up. But once you enter R9 JoSD territory... no one will give a damn about you once they know there is no possibility of a zerk crit coming their way.

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not sure if you yourself have R9 or you're just trying to hopelessly defend your opinion that it's "pay 2 win" or that Third cast NV can't be compared to R9. But it is very much comparable to R9. And it also brings something to the game that we didn't have before, which is at least a balanced selection of end-game gears.

Remember the very first pics we saw back in March of the new morai skill for Seekers ?

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1333311

Yep... that R9 Seeker was mine. b:laugh

Also I'm sorry if you think that my opinion of this game being pay to win is hopeless but the blunt fact is that because a minority of players have the knowledge and patience to merch their end game gear... PLUS a computer available to be logged on 24 hours a day to achieve these ends... doesn't suddenly make the game, Free to Win.

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

R9 > 3rd stage NV > Recast R8 > 2nd stage NV > R8.
If you take out 3rd stage NV then the difference or "leap" you take from Recast R8 to R9 is huge. Whitest now with third cast NV, R9 isn't even that big of a deal if you decide to get it or not. You can play on an even field with all r9 users easily. Which is pretty much what this topic was about.

Sure in PVE you can. And with the caster classes I've already acknowledged that the difference betwen R9 and 3rd Nirvana isn't all that much. But if a Seeker/Barb/BM (unless blinded by aps)/Archer can afford full Rank 9... then I'm willing to bet 9 times out of 10 that will be their first choice over any Nirvana gear out there.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver · June 2012

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

ok i am r9 geared and i consider ur having a brain cell of a 5 year old that say r9 in his puny head.

poleaxe is posible the worst weapon a barb might want cos gap betwen hit is terrible and only way to kill is crith serk anything robe.

3rd cast give you 40 attack lv with a much better balance between the gap of +12
flame whatever gem

the only thing i agree total cost is cheaper just get r9 axe in comparasion with 3rd cast nv

but if arma is the only damage ur gona be using i feel sorry for you as it might miss
and then ups you lost halv ur hp with two spark.

plz just cos ur jelly of ppl with r9 do not take it on the rest of the r9 players as i am not interested in r9 poleaxe whatsoever and my gear is +10 r9 armor

Seriously... WTF did I just read above ? b:shocked

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear · June 2012

You are still wrong, how long have we had third cast NV? Because last I checked people would JoSD high grade gear, like oh I don't know. G16? Oh, 3rd stage nirv is G16.

And again, you are wrong for the full R9 giving the most defense levels. Full R9 would mean all armor pieces and R9 weapon. How does having the R9 weapon which would make the set complete and the last add be +20 attack give MORE def levels than keeping the def levels on the 2 and 5 pieces combo and having an EXTRA 15-25 defense levels on another weapon? Unless numbers changed in the past few minutes then 20 def levels + 15-20 def levels extra > 20 def levels and 20 attack levels.
As for the R9 JoSD stuff. Most classes that go for that set up are BM's, seekers and Barbs who regardless of others having zerk crit are in TW not supposed to be attacking each other unless there's no one else around.

Tell me on your server alone, how many full R9 JoSD people are there? How many are not seeker, BM or barb? I'm sorry but if I were to make a barb, seeker or BM with full +12 JoSD R9 I wouldn't be afraid of any other melee class and their GoF on weapon. The odds of them killing me is very slim unless all debuffs on me are in their favor.

I didn't give you my opinion on what end-game is, I stated of how the only way you (or according to your posts) would kill certain people rely on a 1 shot or charm bypass isn't how end-game SHOULD be.

And I didn't say that you are desperately believe it's pay to win, you're just desperately trying to prove it is which it is not.
With the third cast nirvana set you can field almost 2 of any class against each other and a full third stage nirvana vs a full R9 class would still have a very good chance of winning. Whilst you can throw in a R8R or 2nd stage NV person against a full R9 person of the same class and their chances drop drastically.
R9 gear IS better than 3rd stage nirvana. But saying that a set of gear that has almost the same exact stats in terms of offense and defense can't compare/compete with R9 in PVP is completely wrong no matter how you look at it.
Which I might add that a full 3rd stage NV player can also use G16 warsong belt which costs the same as getting R9 belt. That would balance the fact of having 5 less defense levels than the R9 set can

I have full R9 as well, I'm not sure why you are so blinded by "OMG R9 SO PRO NOTHING COMES CLOSE TO IT" or w/e train you're on. But in due time when third stage NV becomes the new standard for anyone that can't afford R9 you'll understand that it can pretty damn well give you a run for your money.

Also, while reading I realized you're basing almost all your assumptions on facing full +12 full JoSD sharded opponents. In which case you might as well say that R9 itself is obsolete in PK. Because if you pit a +10 weapon and ~+10 refined R9 char with immac/perfects in their armor against a full +12 JoSD r9 w/e class they're obviously going to lose against them unless they get lucky.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · June 2012

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seriously... WTF did I just read above ? b:shocked

saying r9 and 3rd cast nv is not simular is so wrong and i think i know why you think r9 is better cos its the only way you can keep beliving in ur rank gear

let me give you a hint rank gear is old atm look around in lost city its beyond normal enough so devs decided to give farmer there own rank gear

ooh and let see

r9 pole lame axe

vs dual axe with 40 attack lv +15 or so more attack lv from stats

b:bye i think i know wish weapon is potentiolly stronger

TempleSlave - Lost City · June 2012

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is no game out there that gives you "End-Game" Gear for cheap,end game gear its supposed to be expensive or everyone would have it don't you think?

Why everyone when talk about "Play" doesn't consider the WHOLE game not just the ultra-end-game-gear,doesn't "nubs"TT90/99 play the game too?

You're all just obsessed with with end game,as if you need to be R9 to do anything at all.

Seriously, are you that so far addicted you can't see the larger picture?

I'm not saying end-game gear should be easy to get, but R9 has 3 tiers to it now, as does Nirvana? Really? For what end-purpose? At what end cost? None other than for epeen? It's not about gaming, it's about PWI taking advantage of people who are obsessive and compulsive. There is no PvE requirement for any of this gear. The only reason for the gear is to push people who have to have the best of everything to get more of it and for you to remain competitive, you need to upgrade as well.

As for "play" try to start as a level 1 on a new server where you don't have anything. You won't find players to party with. There is no large playerbase at anything other than end-game levels to accomplish things. You read the forums, that much is obvious, but do you actually pay attention to what people are saying? People complain about finding parties at end-game, it's not as if there are more people to party with at lower levels.

Open your eyes.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · June 2012

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

While granted r9 is better then G16 nirvana, the differences isn't as vast as lets say r8 to r9. I didn't say a jiffy if you read one of my previous posts I said you could easily get the money in a few MONTHS. As in like 5~6. It is VERY easy to just jump in the market. There's so many low end cheap items that are bought in large quantities every day. Chi stones, tokens , mirages, Nirvana mats. Hell I just made about.... a 100mil profit on dorbs JUST from the 1 week firepack sale. And now I'm bouncing from that and will sell all of my inventory (about 4000 of them). You just have to use your braincells, watch the market, and modify your price to match it. Sure you think I'll buy everything dirt cheap and hoard it till offsale. Sure that works but why "double" money sitting on it for a few months when you can continue buy and selling making more money in the mean time...

There is so much wrong with most of your posts, but most of the chi stones, you may make a small profit, it will take too long for anyone to actually buy this stuff.

Tokens are from packs, d-orbs from fire pack sale are from boutique, you cannot really farm those at all because those two items are from the boutique. So that is either you cash shop (80% chance you do because I remembered that you were selling a rapture chest in world chat once) or from someone else (whether it is gift or you bought from someone else for cheap.) You make the most profit out of boutique items, it is true. You're actually proving that the "fact" that this game is "pay to win"

Nirvana mats are pretty much good for farming but you need to be in an active faction that have at least 4 players unless you're an assassin, blademaster or venomancer (aps squads sometimes like to have veno for debuffs) and seeker (debuffs again) or a caster with R8+5 or higher for caster nirvana (typical people) you're not going to get anything from nirvana if you want to run them and you have no friends to go there with (you can't rely on them all the time, just like you can't be relied on all the time, we all need a break at times). People are even lazy to make their own squads. Think about it, people would have a rough time in the market. Already.

I can't believe why you even mention mirage celestones, those are completely worthless for resale value, I numbers of shops trying to resell mirage stones but in the end, they seem to LOSE coin rather than gain it because everyone selling to the catshops (I sell to them too) but no one is buying it as it seems. So that is the worst way to merchant. The value of mirages dropped by 2/3 of the value back then and even NPC price cut by 1/3. So making money by reselling mirages is clearly impossible.

I still agree with the idea that you said though, it is not pay to win. Infact, you don't even need to merchant or cash shop to make money as it is easy to make if you learn the curves of this game and study players, just know what you're doing and you'll be fine. I may have spent a little bit of money on this game (light cash shopper, I only spent $60 USD and used 20 to buy/sell the items) It doesn't even take braincells to earn 50+ mil that is easy to get. I do what most people don't do yet they want the things from it (saving coins is one of them), which is why I make a lot of money easily and I don't have to pay a dime for the game just to make money.

Toliman - Raging Tide · June 2012

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

...
I still agree with the idea that you said though, it is not pay to win. Infact, you don't even need to merchant or cash shop to make money as it is easy to make if you learn the curves of this game and study players, just know what you're doing and you'll be fine. I may have spent a little bit of money on this game (light cash shopper, I only spent $60 USD and used 20 to buy/sell the items) It doesn't even take braincells to earn 50+ mil that is easy to get. I do what most people don't do yet they want the things from it (saving coins is one of them), which is why I make a lot of money easily and I don't have to pay a dime for the game just to make money.

You only spent $60 to get 50+mil.

And you say, that this game is not pay to win ...

Also

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

...
Tokens are from packs, d-orbs from fire pack sale are from boutique, you cannot really farm those at all because those two items are from the boutique...

Without cash shop all your coins are useless.

Please, show me how you can get +12 or r8+ rank gear without it.

Pack items (including Scroll of Tome) are from cash shop too.

nexamist · July 2012

If you don't want to pvp there's no need to spend any thing in the cash shop. And as everyone is saying, you either pay to win or work to win, but anyway this is a GAMEE guys b:victory No need to always win, it's suppose to release stress and RELAX not looking at your bill and thinking "I shouldn't have spent that 65 dollars on that end game gear b:cryb:chuckle

Selak - Dreamweaver · July 2012

GandelfYoung - Harshlands wrote: »

I quit this game a while ago for FW which u should try if u havent. But I miss this game a little and was wondering if it was as pay 2 win as it was like 6 months ago?

There is no such thing as a true F2P game because someone has to pay the power bills,
maintenance costs, replacement parts costs, content development costs, staff wages costs, etc.

It is cash shoppers who pay these costs in the real world, so that those who want the F2P game can join in, this benefits the cash shoppers by having a more populated world and the non cash shopper because someones paying the real world costs for them.

In the end it comes down to time versus money for any individual player as to how they play, but it is possible to end game gear either way.

As to winning the game lol it caters to 4 basic player types in 1 game,
PvP must be best player killer in game
PvE must have killed biggest NPC boss in the world single handed
Social must have best mount clothes friends etc.
Explorer must have found all hidden places, opened all maps and explored all.

While this company has the real world coin to update content for each player type this game will remain interesting and end game will continue to shift for each player type,
if they lose the ability to update these content types, players will get sick of doing the same thing over and over again, they will feel they have won and leave in huge numbers.

Farming and Cash shopping both work for me,
An African friend commented in faction chat once that the $20 US a friend had just put into the game was more than the average yearly income in their country, at that point I realized we are both lucky to have such a great game to play.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · July 2012

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is cash shoppers who pay these costs in the real world, so that those who want the F2P game can join in, this benefits the cash shoppers by having a more populated world and the non cash shopper because someones paying the real world costs for them.

Ah, the times when all you had to do was walk to a store and hand them 30-60 euros for a game and that was it. Now it's all "yeah you get to pay nothing but you have to work like an African kid making soccer balls" or "yeah we want you to pay us a smaller portion, except you do it every month until you decide you've had enough".

Lesthar - Heavens Tear · July 2012

Ah friend, you think the game would really IMPROVE?
That is a mere hollow wish. Even I gave up on it long ago. b:surrender

Signed: A jaded PWI gamer that likes to distribute sad reality checks to all.

CritCat - Archosaur · July 2012

The only 2 types I know with Rank 9 are either:

A: Extremely Lucky Merchants who capitalized on packs, when they 1st came out.

B: Heavy CSers.

Just sayin'.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · July 2012

CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »

The only 2 types I know with Rank 9 are either:

A: Extremely Lucky Merchants who capitalized on packs, when they 1st came out.

B: Heavy CSers.

Oh, but that's just because people might want to actually play the game. Or they prefer to have a character that can farm a lot.

There's tons and tons of people who opted to be 5 aps rather than getting R9. Or they got 5 aps and are now going for R9. There's tons and tons of people who's gear, while not being R9, is refined and sharded well enough to be worth enough to buy them full R9.

Then again considering that you failed as a Sage Assassin, having already decided to not cash shop anymore and ended up with a 4 aps R9 +12 Demon sin and a full R9+12 Wizard, I guess the concept of succeeding without "luck" is foreign to you. Because trust me, "luck" doesn't make you successful, it only makes you more successful.

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary · July 2012

Almost necro :O

Lesthar - Heavens Tear · July 2012

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Almost necro :O

Well it's not one in the end, bro. Just relax. b:laugh

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · July 2012

CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »

The only 2 types I know with Rank 9 are either:

A: Extremely Lucky Merchants who capitalized on packs, when they 1st came out.

B: Heavy CSers.

Just sayin'.

you dont need to be the first to ride the merchant train successfully...

CritCat - Archosaur · July 2012

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh, but that's just because people might want to actually play the game. Or they prefer to have a character that can farm a lot.

There's tons and tons of people who opted to be 5 aps rather than getting R9. Or they got 5 aps and are now going for R9. There's tons and tons of people who's gear, while not being R9, is refined and sharded well enough to be worth enough to buy them full R9.

Then again considering that you failed as a Sage Assassin, having already decided to not cash shop anymore and ended up with a 4 aps R9 +12 Demon sin and a full R9+12 Wizard, I guess the concept of succeeding without "luck" is foreign to you. Because trust me, "luck" doesn't make you successful, it only makes you more successful.

I don't know, I tried merchanting a few times and it never worked out. This game caters to everyone. Farmers, CSers, and Merchants alike.

Maybe I went to a different server that catered to my interests in PK/PvP/TW, there being an extremely wide gap on Archosaur between my toon that I already never log into, and either the very undergeared players that PK on a PvE server, or the full rank 9 monsters that dominate it.

SpiritDivine - Sanctuary · July 2012

I am one of the many casual players. I might play a bit more than the average player but i still consider myself casual. In one year since coming to the EU servers i think i have done well enough without putting that much effort into it and no real cash. I have seen some others farm full nirvana or even full R9 but that is a bit to hardcore for me but with R8 and TT99 at +5 i have managed to take on any challenge in PvE and can hold my own in squads. Now i am working on R8 recast and nirvana gear that might turn into the new nirvana mold gear. I am lucky to know some strong people that i can play with in warsong but i can defend my pavillion so i dont feel out of place there.

I think the key for the casual player is to save up a lot of money and then try to take advantage when there is a drop in the market. For example the Aurora Agent made the price on cannies drop a lot so what seemed to be far fetched for me suddenly became reasonable gear to reach for. That serge also made the price on R8 mats go down on my server so i made sure to fill up on as many cheap mats as i could for my R8 recast. True i still dont have it but it feels like i will have it soon either with a bit of luck or by just patiently working towards the goal.

Mizuryu - Harshlands · July 2012

It pretty much is.
I mean you have to be 5 aps to do Nirvana, but to be 5 aps you need Nirvana.
So in other words you have to CS a lot to get 5 aps to do Nirvana.

And don't give me that, "Do EEt with ur faction noob!"
You know damn well a majority of people who are still playing is already 5 aps or OP and stuck up, while the people who would do it not caring about your aps have long quit.

Tiare - Lost City · July 2012

Well no word about aps classes but i think casters canlive pretty good with morai armor/wep at 100+. only if u play pve ofcause.

Kawaiiiii - Raging Tide · July 2012

Use your brains or a credit card to win.

CroPsy - Heavens Tear · July 2012

Mizuryu - Harshlands wrote: »

It pretty much is.
I mean you have to be 5 aps to do Nirvana, but to be 5 aps you need Nirvana.
So in other words you have to CS a lot to get 5 aps to do Nirvana.

And don't give me that, "Do EEt with ur faction noob!"
You know damn well a majority of people who are still playing is already 5 aps or OP and stuck up, while the people who would do it not caring about your aps have long quit.

You don't have to CS for Nirv gear.
If you're Sin or BM, you can solo TT 1-x and make money there to buy Canny.

When I'm having bad times, it's only 1-1.5m a day from TT, on good days it's 5m.

And sins only need 2 piece of Nirv gear. Leggings and Daggers.

And you don't have to be 5APS to do Nirvana. You can make your own 3.33APS nirv squad.

For Casters is even easier to get coins and get into Nirv squad. My GF (Mystic) farmed her R8 in two weeks, only doing caster nirv runs.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · July 2012

Mizuryu - Harshlands wrote: »

It pretty much is.
I mean you have to be 5 aps to do Nirvana, but to be 5 aps you need Nirvana.
So in other words you have to CS a lot to get 5 aps to do Nirvana.

A lot? I think I charge maybe $5-10 a month tops, and I'm 5.0, +10 weapon, demon hf and all that junk. The main chunk of my coin is BH and farming herbs every so often. Too lazy to merchant at all. The basic specs mentioned above actually aren't all that much, and a few months playing the game will earn what you need. The problem is most players don't BH or farm, fund a billion alts all at once, buy unnecessary overpowered pieces of gear or costly shards, splash out on packs and vanity items and wonder where the money went, then QQ.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear · July 2012

Mizuryu - Harshlands wrote: »

It pretty much is.
I mean you have to be 5 aps to do Nirvana, but to be 5 aps you need Nirvana.
So in other words you have to CS a lot to get 5 aps to do Nirvana.

And don't give me that, "Do EEt with ur faction noob!"
You know damn well a majority of people who are still playing is already 5 aps or OP and stuck up, while the people who would do it not caring about your aps have long quit.

And here we have a prime example of a new player with no idea what they are talking about. Oh look it's another sin. (No offense to the few I know with brains they are all making you look bad -_-)

Casters don't need to be APS they get caster nirvanas.

Any class can do nirvana they just have to make their own squad with other "non-aps" players and do it just fine. Oh but wait here's the real kicker (irony) they want aps in their squad to make it faster. If they didn't demand for something they didn't have themselves people could make some actual progress. And for your do it with your faction. That holds quite true. When I was still in my faction (currently and happily factionless due to to much drama) tons of nirvanas were run for everyone. Didn't matter your gear / aps / skill / etc. We did 99 keys to regular runs. Of course you will always have your few small cliques in every faction. THAT'S EVERYWHERE even without factions. Get used to it. If us "OP and stuck up players" were as you say we are how come I still run Full RBs for people / run their 99s / helps people with BH even when I don't need it / give deals on things to friends when I may lose potential money on it?

This game is far from pay 2 win. And if I honestly have to go into detail about it then theres no point because your mind will be too narrow-minded to accept it anyways.

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · July 2012

GandelfYoung - Harshlands wrote: »

is this still Pay to win at high lvls ?

Would it make since to Pay to lose?

Sorry had to

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear · July 2012

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

Would it make since to Pay to lose?

Sorry had to

But in the end you do lose. Because PWE owns all this virtual property. They are just loaning it to you for entertainment value. Until one day it's gone. Where does that investment go? Nowhere. So in in the long run It is PAY 2 LOSE (your money) :P

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · July 2012

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And here we have a prime example of a new player with no idea what they are talking about. Oh look it's another sin. (No offense to the few I know with brains they are all making you look bad -_-)

thats a little mean without knowing their situation..

is this still Pay to win at high lvls

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