is this still Pay to win at high lvls

We'll pwi will always be pwi.I personally dont pay as my currency wont allow me but with that beinging said winning aint everything .I Play for fun i do tw without charms etc but i dont mind losing its just a game b:victory

Btw FW so awesome but for some reason i cant play it on win7 as my pc's not w7 compatible 3 months and im upgraded to play fw b:laugh

it's Pay to be lazy, work to win b:bye

Funny how people complain about cash shoppers like they wouldn't buy the best gears in the game if they just came in to a bunch of money and still wanted to play this game.

Bunch of hypocrites for the most part. Only a small percentage actually enjoy playing the game and farm their stuff because they want to. The rest just don't have the luxury of spending $3k dollars on a game so they QQ about those who can.

It's pay2win if you're too damn lazy to farm/merchant. Or too stupid to know how... ijs

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Maybe you just figure out Perpetuum Mobile. Every1 have to merchant so every1 will have money. But it's not working that way. They have to be always some1 who loosing money other way it would be Perpetuum Mobile. Yea some in game coins you can get from perfect tokens, but is far not enough to save billions for just one player for R9(example). So merchandising is NOT the way for every1. I would say it's way maybe for 10-20% of players. Others must use real money.

You didn't read the part where I included the word farm in there. You forget millions are generated every day just from BH 100. At least 10 players every day get an excitement card, at least 20 get ecstasy, at least 100 get mirages. And yes even merchants spend a small portion of their money. Just not as much as others.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The problem with merchants is: Merchants are poor. If you want your money to keep growing as a merchant, you can't spend much of it on yourself.

So yeah. Game is still pay2win.

Untrue.

In the last month or so, I pretty much doubled my coinage (350m->700m). I then proceeded to spend 170m to complete my Pan Gu, Creator.

So now I have a 4 aps base Sage sin and about 540m coins, plus a tome worth 300m. In fact, the tome went up in market price by a good 50m the moment I made it.

What you mean is "a merchant shouldn't spend too much". I'm still a small fish when it comes to merchanting and the gear and skills on my sin probably cost me over 1 billion coins, most of which I've spent, as in it's mostly bound gear or skills that I've already learned.

The point is that spending that 170m when I had 350m would've halved my capital, not to mention pushed me below the 200m limit. A month later and I can spend the same while only spending 1/4 of my capital with the spending having very little effect in my merchanting ability.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Poor merchants are ones starting out or trying to sell ridiculously overpriced or low demand items.

I don't know about you, but for myself once I have a certain capital in a product you don't have to keep saving the coins to add more stock. At some point it'll be excessive and you will have to put it into something else otherwise it just sits there and collects dust anyways. And legally you can't exactly control more then 3-4 major products (per the 2 account rule), so once you run both of those everything profit-wise after is pure pocket change for yourself. (I'd say about 5~10% of your profits you can spend and still do well as a merchant)

True.

Generally, you'd prefer to have a steady flow of merchandise from your shop. However, competition and costs limit the amount of control you have on that flow. Thus, you pretty much always end up in a situation where you simply cannot get any higher coin/time. And since you're only selling so much product per time, the volume that you're selling doesn't matter as long as it's "enough. Also after a certain point, you'll have enough coins to get enough Gold for restocking as soon as your shop sells out. After this point, any coin that you get will only really serve as reserves in case of a surprise spike in sells or Gold price.

That is also why I decided to buy the Pan Gu, Creator: because the loss of ~170m on my merchanting has literally no effect whatsoever due to the limited amount of merchandise I can move. Even without the 170m, I can still put in enough merchandise to my shop and restock fast enough to keep the flow going. Plus, as long as the tome isn't bound, it's an investment worth 300m, which is about 50m more than I paid for it.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As I said. Merchandising can work for max. 10-20% of players. Others must spend real money to keep this 10-20% profitable. If we talking about end game armor like R9 2rd or 3rd recast, etc. For those you need to spend billions of coins. Even with absolutely perfect merchandising it would take years to gain those coins.

... Why are you bringing up R9 recasts when barely any hardcore cash shoppers have those?

Not to mention that the difference between R9 and R9 recast isn't really much anyway.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As I said. Merchandising can work for max. 10-20% of players. Others must spend real money to keep this 10-20% profitable. If we talking about end game armor like R9 2rd or 3rd recast, etc. For those you need to spend billions of coins. Even with absolutely perfect merchandising it would take years to gain those coins.

TBH yes... I used to buy sell/mirages, but it was stupid how much people were cutting prices. There was a point I was making like 100 coins per Mirage, and it was not worth it. Then I moved on to other stuffs, now everyone is doing the same, so it's like 20 people trying to buy sell the same and there is not income of new items.

You gotta have a touch to know what people will be selling and buying a lot. It gets frustrating.

GandelfYoung - Harshlands wrote: »

I quit this game a while ago for FW which u should try if u havent. But I miss this game a little and was wondering if it was as pay 2 win as it was like 6 months ago?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because OP was asking about end game gear. And end game is now R9 3rd recast.

Where the heck are you getting End game gear in OP's question? And intelligence check. Currently Endgame is G16 And R9 (less then 10 people have 2nd cast r9)

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because OP was asking about end game gear. And end game is now R9 3rd recast.

I'm sorry....but that's dumb.
Name one thing that requires that kind of gear to effectively enjoy this game (outside PvP with the other 9 people who even might get it).
If this is your true thought of what endgame is.......its no wonder some of you are so disillusioned as to what enjoyment is.
Keeping up with the Jones' gets you nothing but hatred and frustration.

ShamandaIie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What Jen said, to add to that if anything the game is less pay-to-win now with third cast Nirvana being dirt cheap compared to R9. If anything it's now very possible to farm and be able to compete with regular R9 in PVE.

Sorry but needed fixing. As far as PVP is concerned, R9 is still king due to certain guaranteed adds such as GOF and Advanced Purge.

To be honest I never understood why people would spend the kind of dough it takes to get R9 just to do PVE alone anyway. Nirvana (1st & 2nd cast) was always more than enough. And ya... game is still definitely P2W. Don't let those players who have been merching for years and are currently sitting on vast amounts of wealth try to paint you a picture of how easy it will be for new comers to just jump into the market and merch their R9 in a jiffy.

First of all the people saying you can merchant your way to what you want, forget to mention that you have to be Level 100+ to get items that sell (Notice their levels on post) Most of whom glitched , hypered and powerleveled those toons to get access to the higher end stuff to sell.

Legit players on the other hand have to deal with nerfed drops, nerfed Selling (NPC) prices and a flooded market. IF you are a legit player you will quickly notice how the game is now drastically change since you played before.

Of Course the "SO CALLED MERCHANTS" will come and say it's not true. They would never dare Start a new account and play a legit character with no help from friends or their own characters acting as sugar mommie or daddy to their new character. They would quickly see how it is so much different now than it was years ago. SO take their hyperbole as what it is.

PWI does not want new players unless they are prepared to spend thousands of Real Life currency on the game to stand a chance. They are content to bleed the existing player base of everything they can till the game dies.

If do plan to play, DO as I have done and find a Legit guild, accept you will not be able to TW unless you cheat, and you and your new guild will never be considered by the elitist buy your way to the top clicks as relevant. Turn off world chat as the prices are akin to small country's budgets not realist of a game economy. But accept that you can still enjoy good time with legit players and enjoy that sense of accomplishment that the game is intended to instill.

I myself went on a Brimstone run on a level 67 character last night, we did not insta kill all the bosses and we actually had to use tactics and work as team to succeed. None of us were over gear to the max, In fact the big deal was soon some of my guild will be able to access Morai gears. Not the greatest gear (Those are Cash Shop only now), But decent enough gear for them at this time.

So if your looking to rekindle that old spirit of "Yes we finally Killed Eye of the Crimson beyond , after 10 trys) It is still posssiable but not with any of the so called glitch/Hyper top guilds, you need to find a legit guild with people that like to earn what they have and not buy it.

alymara wrote: »

First of all the people saying you can merchant your way to what you want, forget to mention that you have to be Level 100+ to get items that sell (Notice their levels on post) Most of whom glitched , hypered and powerleveled those toons to get access to the higher end stuff to sell.
Wrong. You buy the stuff thats on sale and sell it off-sale initially to get your income up and once you get some capital you continuously buy and sell 24/7. Initial merchanting will have you overpricing for convenience. Until you can work your way up.
Legit players on the other hand have to deal with nerfed drops, nerfed Selling (NPC) prices and a flooded market. IF you are a legit player you will quickly notice how the game is now drastically change since you played before.

Of Course the "SO CALLED MERCHANTS" will come and say it's not true. They would never dare Start a new account and play a legit character with no help from friends or their own characters acting as sugar mommie or daddy to their new character. They would quickly see how it is so much different now than it was years ago. SO take their hyperbole as what it is.Leveling up a character has NOTHING to do with merchanting. And as a matter of fact I have made a character on another server before without anyone knowing who it is. I could be on your server and you wouldn't even know it was me.

PWI does not want new players unless they are prepared to spend thousands of Real Life currency on the game to stand a chance. They are content to bleed the existing player base of everything they can till the game dies.
Wrong again but keep thinking that.
If do plan to play, DO as I have done and find a Legit guild, accept you will not be able to TW unless you cheat, and you and your new guild will never be considered by the elitist buy your way to the top clicks as relevant. Turn off world chat as the prices are akin to small country's budgets not realist of a game economy. But accept that you can still enjoy good time with legit players and enjoy that sense of accomplishment that the game is intended to instill. I feel as if your post is becoming more of a I quit the game Troll post to attack others.

I myself went on a Brimstone run on a level 67 character last night, we did not insta kill all the bosses and we actually had to use tactics and work as team to succeed. None of us were over gear to the max, In fact the big deal was soon some of my guild will be able to access Morai gears. Not the greatest gear (Those are Cash Shop only now), But decent enough gear for them at this time.G16 isn't cash shop only and contends with r9 just fine

So if your looking to rekindle that old spirit of "Yes we finally Killed Eye of the Crimson beyond , after 10 trys) It is still posssiable but not with any of the so called glitch/Hyper top guilds, you need to find a legit guild with people that like to earn what they have and not buy it. Not everyone "glitch/hypered" their levels i got to 100 before hyper stones were even out and i never gooned

Red .

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol why wasting all that effort on replying a guy that's obviously stupid/trolling/jelly/etc.?

Its hopeless just laugh with me b:laugh

Because I'm tolerant with a lot of things. I can be a very patient person with some things too. However blatant stupidity is not high on my tolerance list(Especially during certain times of the month*cough*). I make mistakes sometimes(everyone does), and I'll admit my mistakes and not repeat them. No one person is perfect, however that doesn't mean people should just rant stupid out of their mouth because it makes them feel better. There is no such thing as a stupid question, just ignorance. And if you can't learn from your ignorance then Natural selection will do its job eventually...