Archer & Armor Sharding

Vhrea - Archosaur
Vhrea - Archosaur Posts: 2 Arc User
edited June 2012 in Archer
Which is better sharding for Archer armor ?

Full DOT sharding for harder hit ? or Full Citrine/JOSD/etc for more survivability ?

If there 2 Archer has the same build, same armor, and the only different is about the sharding, which one will win for sure when they have dueling each other ?

I need opinion. b:thanks
Post edited by Vhrea - Archosaur on

Comments

  • KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear
    KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Vhrea - Archosaur wrote: »
    Which is better sharding for Archer armor ?

    Full DOT sharding for harder hit ? or Full Citrine/JOSD/etc for more survivability ?

    If there 2 Archer has the same build, same armor, and the only different is about the sharding, which one will win for sure when they have dueling each other ?

    I need opinion. b:thanks

    Archer vs Archer 1v1 are always based on luck. Personally Survivability would be better then more damage, as we hit hard as it is anyways.
    [SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
    Ty Fon for the Siggy <3

    The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute
  • SpazzMcAps - Harshlands
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands Posts: 2,561 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    r9 recast with ambers
  • unceuncerave
    unceuncerave Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    R9 with full JOSD. the most expensive and overpowered **** in the game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory
  • Demon_troll - Harshlands
    Demon_troll - Harshlands Posts: 622 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Archer vs Archer 1v1 are always based on luck. Personally Survivability would be better then more damage, as we hit hard as it is anyways.

    jolly jones blessing, full attack level shard, add damage from weapon, then u have good archer. it is kill or be killed.
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Demon_troll - Harshlands wrote: »
    i say random **** cause i missed the attention i get from PWI..

    we didn;t miss you on the other hand
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  • SpazzMcAps - Harshlands
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands Posts: 2,561 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Demon_troll - Harshlands wrote: »
    jolly jones blessing, full attack level shard, add damage from weapon, then u have good archer. it is kill or be killed.

    **** aare good
  • Heartz - Dreamweaver
    Heartz - Dreamweaver Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i usually say Josd > primevals > cit gem > dots. if its full sharding.. if its half dot and use omalley bless or something it can work as budget build too.

    I really dont feel much of a difference from dot archers who hit me, and those with none. but a huge difference is how hard they are to kill.

    full dot builds is in my opinion only for people that really absolutely want every extra ltitle tiny dmg boost.
    105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)

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  • KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear
    KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Doesn't DoT have a diminishing return after so much attack levels anyways?
    (I know Defense gives 1.2% defense per if higher then attack levels. isn't attack dropped off to like .7%? after so much?)
    [SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
    Ty Fon for the Siggy <3

    The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Doesn't DoT have a diminishing return after so much attack levels anyways?
    (I know Defense gives 1.2% defense per if higher then attack levels. isn't attack dropped off to like .7%? after so much?)

    Actually it`s the opposite. DoTs always give 1% more dmg to the "base dmg" so to say, while JoSD give lesser defense boost per defense level over every consecutive defense level over attackers attack level. That is in absolute sense, while on relative sense, DoTs give diminishing returns.

    But what I`m refering as relative and what you are refering with diminishing returns is the following:

    10k base dmg, add 1 attack level and we got 10k*1.01 = 10.1k dmg and doing the math (10.1-10)k/10k *100% = 1%.

    Oh other hand, say we got Base attack levels of 160(Jones+R9bow). I`ll use the same base dmg of 10k. But so with added 60 attack levels, one hits for 10k*1.60 = 16k. with 161 attack levels, it`s 10k*1.61 = 16.1k dmg. (16.1-16)k/16k*100% = 0.625%.

    I used the scenario where attack levels were higher than defense levels as it was simpler way of doing it. But the DoT gives always that 1% on base dmg(When over defense levels) but as attack levels stack, it`s always lesser part of dmg than before thus it gets relatively weaker.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Both attack levels and defense levels give linear returns once you exceed the opponents defense levels / attack levels respectively.

    People tend to not understand how to look at damage reduction properly. Going from 98% reduction to 99% reduction means you can take twice as much damage (effectively doubling your HP) even though most would describe that as you "only gain 1% reduction".

    For JoSD vs DoT I'd go with JoSD. The typical trade off with DoT is to sacrifice 40% of your survival for like 13% increased damage. Not worth it in my opinion.

    JoSD sharding also makes you nearly invulnerable to non R9 attackers (lots of sins and BMs fall into this category).
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  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Both attack levels and defense levels give linear returns once you exceed the opponents defense levels / attack levels respectively.

    I can be wrong but didnt defense levels have a curve? Least I got that stuck in my head for some reason and I`was wondering if I got it for a reason or not, lol.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • XxZavxX - Raging Tide
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »
    Actually it`s the opposite. DoTs always give 1% more dmg to the "base dmg" so to say, while JoSD give lesser defense boost per defense level over every consecutive defense level over attackers attack level. That is in absolute sense, while on relative sense, DoTs give diminishing returns.

    But what I`m refering as relative and what you are refering with diminishing returns is the following:

    10k base dmg, add 1 attack level and we got 10k*1.01 = 10.1k dmg and doing the math (10.1-10)k/10k *100% = 1%.

    Oh other hand, say we got Base attack levels of 160(Jones+R9bow). I`ll use the same base dmg of 10k. But so with added 60 attack levels, one hits for 10k*1.60 = 16k. with 161 attack levels, it`s 10k*1.61 = 16.1k dmg. (16.1-16)k/16k*100% = 0.625%.

    I used the scenario where attack levels were higher than defense levels as it was simpler way of doing it. But the DoT gives always that 1% on base dmg(When over defense levels) but as attack levels stack, it`s always lesser part of dmg than before thus it gets relatively weaker.

    That's not what the resident uberarchernerd had to say about atk/def lvls http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=698392
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That's not what the resident uberarchernerd had to say about atk/def lvls http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=698392

    Actually it`s exactly the same thing. Of course, my calculations neglected the def levels higher than attack levels scenario and only focused on if attack levels are higher than def levels. But as far as we`re talking bout attack levels higher than def levels, we`re talking bout the same thing. While I find the absolute returns more significant, Astraelle went with relative in her conclusion.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • XxZavxX - Raging Tide
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »
    Actually it`s exactly the same thing. Of course, my calculations neglected the def levels higher than attack levels scenario and only focused on if attack levels are higher than def levels. But as far as we`re talking bout attack levels higher than def levels, we`re talking bout the same thing. While I find the absolute returns more significant, Astraelle went with relative in her conclusion.

    Your focus would only draw partial conclusions... Again, not what Asterelle pointed out...
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Your focus would only draw partial conclusions... Again, not what Asterelle pointed out...

    As far as math went, it was the same thing essentially. I completely ignored the situation where def levels > Attack levels as I felt like simplifying would offer more to the one I responded.

    But I do see it differently as to me it`s more objective to work with absolute values than relative. You say my point of view neglects part of relative information but taking the relative view, you also neglect a lot of relevant information. Neither is perfect, it`s simply focusing on different things.

    Ps. I never took a side on sharding, I simply elaborated the math behind DoTs.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • Aesthor - Heavens Tear
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,845 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Demon_troll - Harshlands wrote: »
    jolly jones blessing, full attack level shard, add damage from weapon, then u have good archer. it is kill or be killed.

    Oh I didn't notice you hit level 90. Belated grats on actually being able to be a demon archer.
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  • SpazzMcAps - Harshlands
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands Posts: 2,561 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Oh I didn't notice you hit level 90. Belated grats on actually being able to be a demon archer.

    Stunning him after he demon sparks is hilariousb:chuckle
  • Zliss - Lost City
    Zliss - Lost City Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    full JOSD or full vit for more survival.
  • High_Lord - Heavens Tear
    High_Lord - Heavens Tear Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Oh I didn't notice you hit level 90. Belated grats on actually being able to be a demon archer.

    b:chuckle
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