An Idea for agro control.
Sheik_ - Dreamweaver
Posts: 36 Arc User
I think one way to help with barbs being able to tank would be to get - agro on gear for a stat.
(yes I know that agro control is an ancient topic but hey why not.)
so like - 5 agro on a piece of gear to help it. and for a flip side +5 agro on like heavy gear.
(yes I know that agro control is an ancient topic but hey why not.)
so like - 5 agro on a piece of gear to help it. and for a flip side +5 agro on like heavy gear.
Post edited by Sheik_ - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Or they could let Barb aggro also be based off of soulforce (as suggested before)
Or they could give Flesh Ream/Roar/Sunder the same effect as the "Bad Taunt" from Caster NV (toned down of course) - Wraith(s) with that status effect becomes transfixed on whoever put it on them. Flesh Ream would have the shortest/weakest of the effect Roar would be somewhat stronger and last longer, and Sunder would be the strongest /last the longest of the three skills.
:shrug:
Edit: I'm also wondering if that new Barb skill from Adv. EU is effective in holding Aggro...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|0 -
Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Or they could let Barb aggro also be based off of soulforce (as suggested before)
Or they could give Flesh Ream/Roar/Sunder the same effect as the "Bad Taunt" from Caster NV (toned down of course) - Wraith(s) with that status effect becomes transfixed on whoever put it on them. Flesh Ream would have the shortest/weakest of the effect Roar would be somewhat stronger and last longer, and Sunder would be the strongest /last the longest of the three skills.
:shrug:
Edit: I'm also wondering if that new Barb skill from Adv. EU is effective in holding Aggro...
Sadly I mentioned this but it's a player only skill. I'd say SF would be a good choice for an amp of agro... or increase how much threat the skill does based on level.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
why does that thing have holes in its arm? is it cheese? im really hungry. please tell me its cheese. its it cheese?Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Or they could let Barb aggro also be based off of soulforce (as suggested before)
Or they could give Flesh Ream/Roar/Sunder the same effect as the "Bad Taunt" from Caster NV (toned down of course) - Wraith(s) with that status effect becomes transfixed on whoever put it on them. Flesh Ream would have the shortest/weakest of the effect Roar would be somewhat stronger and last longer, and Sunder would be the strongest /last the longest of the three skills.
:shrug:
Edit: I'm also wondering if that new Barb skill from Adv. EU is effective in holding Aggro...0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »Sadly I mentioned this but it's a player only skill. I'd say SF would be a good choice for an amp of agro... or increase how much threat the skill does based on level.
*facehoof*SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »why does that thing have holes in its arm? is it cheese? im really hungry. please tell me its cheese. its it cheese?
Think that if you wish to.
She's not cheese.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|0 -
Sheik_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think one way to help with barbs being able to tank would be to get - agro on gear for a stat.
(yes I know that agro control is an ancient topic but hey why not.)
so like - 5 agro on a piece of gear to help it. and for a flip side +5 agro on like heavy gear.
It's a good idea, but a solid fix would be to just fix the aggro skill (Flesh ream), and/or give more aggro skills with higher aggro abilities. Unfortunately, ever since 5aps has been around, this has been a pretty big issue, and Wanmei hasn't addressed it.0 -
Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
ah well ill eat it anyways b:sweat0 -
Another QQ thread by someone that thinks they're ideas for a game are better than the dev's.
Assassins were given Rib Strike. It reduces reflect, but makes an otherwise non tankable boss tankable for more than just a Barb. Sage Wizards were given stuns in Dragon's Breath which causes massive hatred. BMs and Seekers were given their aggro skills. The only ones having problems with aggro are the ones that try to coerce the devs to suite their needs rather than learn the game.0 -
Best fix is for the stupid sins to learn what chill of the deep is for. Argo control.0
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Soul_knife - Dreamweaver wrote: »Best fix is for the stupid sins to learn what chill of the deep is for. Argo control.
CotD isn't for that -lol.0 -
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Soul_knife - Dreamweaver wrote: »Thank you for proving my point b:victory
Proved nothing: You don't need to learn a skill to reduce dps, or dpk. Nice to know stupid sins (like you) invest in skills to control their aggro. -lol! I'll continue using it for AoE/skills. Maybe try subsea strike instead of derpapsing?0 -
Aggro control is fine. It's supposed to be hard to hold from someone that permasparks and auto attacks. It's the necessary drawback to doing so much damage. If a player isn't able to handle a boss's hits and continues to do things that always lead to them dying, they deserve the death. It's frustrating as hell for the barbarian, but it's a fitting punishment for characters that are primarily concerned with seeing large numbers on their screen rather than the boss dying as fast as possible.
There are skills that help bosses die faster than you sparking every fifteen seconds. If you die from a bosses aggro, use your debuffing skills.
Blademasters have Heaven's Flame which is usable every 30 seconds and glacial spike which is usable every 30 seconds. Both of these cost 2 sparks and help the squad as a whole kill the boss, which can usually kill the boss faster than if the blademaster just sparks.
Assassins have Subsea Strike which is useable every 30 seconds. Alternating between spark and Subsea might not always keep aggro off you, but you're less likely to take and hold it than you are if all you do is spark. Using rib strike every time it cools down will also help the tank survive and help you survive if you take aggro. It will also somewhat break up your attacks, which will help keep aggro off you.0 -
Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Or they could let Barb aggro also be based off of soulforce (as suggested before)
Or they could give Flesh Ream/Roar/Sunder the same effect as the "Bad Taunt" from Caster NV (toned down of course) - Wraith(s) with that status effect becomes transfixed on whoever put it on them. Flesh Ream would have the shortest/weakest of the effect Roar would be somewhat stronger and last longer, and Sunder would be the strongest /last the longest of the three skills.
:shrug:
Edit: I'm also wondering if that new Barb skill from Adv. EU is effective in holding Aggro...
....
theres some issues with your order of skills in relation to aggro strength.
for starters, ROAR is not an aggro keeping skill per se. Its more of an aggro reset, putting all aggro back to a base amount, therefore is the weakest of the "aggro" skills.
sunder isn't an "aggro" skill really.. it just hits hard and causes 30 seconds worth of bleed damage. overall I'm inclined to say armageddon hits harder.
flesh ream is the barbs strongest aggro skill. at demon it adds about 50,000 points worth of "invisible damage" (skill based aggro points are combined with the damage you do which is visible) and can be used every 2.5 seconds.
penetrate armor and devour also add skill based aggro points..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
Proved nothing: You don't need to learn a skill to reduce dps, or dpk. Nice to know stupid sins (like you) invest in skills to control their aggro. -lol! I'll continue using it for AoE/skills. Maybe try subsea strike instead of derpapsing?
Thumbs is just a butt hurt fail anyway. Sparks, derpsautoattack, then dies over and over.0 -
Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »....
theres some issues with your order of skills in relation to aggro strength.
for starters, ROAR is not an aggro keeping skill per se. Its more of an aggro reset, putting all aggro back to a base amount, therefore is the weakest of the "aggro" skills.
sunder isn't an "aggro" skill really.. it just hits hard and causes 30 seconds worth of bleed damage. overall I'm inclined to say armageddon hits harder.
flesh ream is the barbs strongest aggro skill. at demon it adds about 50,000 points worth of "invisible damage" (skill based aggro points are combined with the damage you do which is visible) and can be used every 2.5 seconds.
penetrate armor and devour also add skill based aggro points..
The reason I gave it that order was because of how spammable those skills are in comparison to each other. I also added Sunder because using it after Roar (if such an effect was placed on those skills) would help hold aggro even better against other AoE DDs (leaving Alphamale as an absolute last resort).
I also know of Penetrate Armor/Devour adding aggro, but with the amount of threat Melee classes can generate with the PDef reduction, those two may as well not generate aggro at all. b:sweat[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|0 -
Soul_knife - Dreamweaver wrote: »Best fix is for the stupid sins to learn what chill of the deep is for. Argo control.
yeah, if u r lvl 30 and ur CotD is lvl 1 b:bye0 -
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well lets look at it this way:Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »The reason I gave it that order was because of how spammable those skills are in comparison to each other. I also added Sunder because using it after Roar (if such an effect was placed on those skills) would help hold aggro even better against other AoE DDs (leaving Alphamale as an absolute last resort).
demon ream takes 20 chi to use and available every 2.5 seconds. With a generic "non aps" barb averaging around 1.05 attacks/second - its "spammable" but not at each c/d over a long duration, without the aid of bestial rage for 15 seconds out of every 30 or chi gain apoth/genie. it would take about 4 seconds of auto attacks at that attack rate to gain 20 chi to ream at each c/d. What then would you propose to have the duration of the effect of ream be set at? if you leave it at 4-5 ish, the barb has to still do what he already does in order to keep aggro. Making the effect last *too* long would open up the door to things being possible which should not be possible (such as a barb being able to turtle massive damage while sins **** things untouched).
now, i don't know how well most sage barb's fare in delta in terms of aggro retention but personally I fare pretty well at gluing the mobs to me provided people dont get attack happy at spawn point (a lot of people set up wrong here anyways). When I pull a spawn point i run through the mobs, invoke, bestial rage, stand up and use berserker's rage (this is excellent for hitting everything at once and breaks heal aggro). running back through the zhen spot i take the melee mobs past the spot, and bring the archer's into the vortex/db so they all drop instantly. bringing the melee's back to vortex my bestial rage is cooled down so i used that again, and demon sunder -> arma (both aoes hitting 100% critical). that pretty well glues the mobs to me. any issues arise thereafter, demon roar is available and is actually stronger than alpha male in that the aggro base is a bit higher, and the bramble buff is a LOT stronger.. I've actually started using bramble rage on my genie lately, as opposed to alpha male.I also know of Penetrate Armor/Devour adding aggro, but with the amount of threat Melee classes can generate with the PDef reduction, those two may as well not generate aggro at all. b:sweat
well... all depending on how well geared the dd is - my barb has a higher damage index than many deicide bm's i've seen running around lately. so if im debuffing the boss with one of those skills, I'm actually putting my own self ahead more by using devour.
edit: considering a "timed" ream again i've arrived at an idea such as this:
1 flesh ream will add 5 seconds of aggro, stackable up to a max of 10 seconds of aggro. This is about the proper amount of aggro it should add. its a long enough duration that reaming can be done without loosing aggro - but not too strong that it gets abused as mentioned above.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
Soul_knife - Dreamweaver wrote: »Best fix is for the stupid sins to learn what chill of the deep is for. Argo control.
stoopid sin, that's not what chill of the deep is for. It's for amping your skill damage. If you need to use CotD for "Argo" control you're doing it wrong. Try interupting the boss for the tank, subseaing, and keeping up rib strike instead.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »stoopid sin, that's not what chill of the deep is for. It's for amping your skill damage. If you need to use CotD for "Argo" control you're doing it wrong. Try interupting the boss for the tank, subseaing, and keeping up rib strike instead.
From testing on my barb, I have found that interrupting channeling of a boss is actually a way to build aggro quickly.
If there are two barbs in FCC, for example, with identical gear and build, both have 3 full sparks at the start of a boss, one holes the FR button down, the other FR but also interrupts, the interrupting barb will have and hold aggro.
I've also found that I cannot hold aggro on some 4.0 or 5.0 Sins on my Barb unless I interrupt. Was aggro tag with a +8 R8 sin until I interrupted the boss every time it channeled. Then the sin couldn't pull back off me, and that was in BH79.
My Sin can tank just fine. The only things I cannot tank are 3-2 and 3-3. And when I'm in there, i just switch to an unrefined R8 dagger until someone else who can tank gets the aggro table saturated enough that I can go all out. Same premise as not attacking on an archer until the boss has lost 1/4 of it's HP before attacking (and my Archer pulls aggro off 5.0 GoF +10 sins, I'm not even full dex QQ).101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
DeathlyTank - Harshlands wrote: »Aggro control is fine. It's supposed to be hard to hold from someone that permasparks and auto attacks. It's the necessary drawback to doing so much damage. If a player isn't able to handle a boss's hits and continues to do things that always lead to them dying, they deserve the death. It's frustrating as hell for the barbarian, but it's a fitting punishment for characters that are primarily concerned with seeing large numbers on their screen rather than the boss dying as fast as possible.
There are skills that help bosses die faster than you sparking every fifteen seconds. If you die from a bosses aggro, use your debuffing skills.
Blademasters have Heaven's Flame which is usable every 30 seconds and glacial spike which is usable every 30 seconds. Both of these cost 2 sparks and help the squad as a whole kill the boss, which can usually kill the boss faster than if the blademaster just sparks.
Assassins have Subsea Strike which is useable every 30 seconds. Alternating between spark and Subsea might not always keep aggro off you, but you're less likely to take and hold it than you are if all you do is spark. Using rib strike every time it cools down will also help the tank survive and help you survive if you take aggro. It will also somewhat break up your attacks, which will help keep aggro off you.
-Wish we had more like this around.0 -
True fact, I've seen a full vit 47 barb accidentally nab aggro from both Bishop boss AND messenger of fear from a demon 5 aps +6 weapon sin. True story.It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0
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