Who is really killing the game? The Company, or the Players?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · May 2012

both.

FCC is a good example. who hasnt bought fcc with noobs or sold it to noobs?

truekossy · May 2012

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

FCC is a good example. who hasnt bought fcc with noobs or sold it to noobs?

*raises hand*

Never bought/sold a FCC and have zero intentions to ever do so.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · May 2012

truekossy wrote: »

*raises hand*

Never bought/sold a FCC and have zero intentions to ever do so.

thats one down :P

truekossy · May 2012

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

thats one down :P

I am the 0.0000000001% XD

By the way, do you still update your sig with fun quotes? Like browsing through it when I want a laugh.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Never bought an FC, never sold one (not that I'm capable of soloing the instance yet on any character), hardly went there except for quests, only hypered there once on an alt. I have one level 100 character, which took 2 years of being my main to get there (after a total of 3 years playing.)

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver · May 2012

I hypered from 92-95 so I could use my shiny new lunar weapon. b:surrender
I've never touched FC since.

As for the topic at hand, it really is a question of selling power for money, versus people willing you pay money for power. It didn't start with the rank sales, or even the packs. I feel like it started with the hercules and phoenix. Those two pets gave venomancers advantages that no other class could have, and they were available only through the boutique. In the days before most people even had TT99 gear, being able to solo instances designed for a squad of 6 was a massive advantage. And the phoenix was a vehicle upon which the bugged flesh ream skill could be used for (at the time) insane amounts of damage in PvP.

PWI has been selling power for a lot longer than people seem to remember. Pets may be a non-factor now, but that's where the corruption began.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · May 2012

its prolly the natural flow of cashshop games tho... CS can be good or bad, and really bad depending on how many want to abuse it to gain even more of a advantage.

anwynd · May 2012

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

both.

FCC is a good example. who hasnt bought fcc with noobs or sold it to noobs?

i have never bought ,sold, or even went into the place. I dont like the easy route i like to do things tht will take time and dedication thts how ive been playing for almost 4 years now and will continue to play that way tell this game either closes or my faction disbands.b:pleased

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary · May 2012

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Agreed with everything except the part in red.

Unfortunately one of the consequences of having the ultimate end game gear that the game has to offer is that many end up being bored out of their skulls with it. Really... no one pays the truck load of cash they did for R9 just to be OP in the daily BH's, TT or occasional Delta. Which leaves PVP and since open world PK is basically also dead... that just leaves the lone weekend TWs to strut your stuff. And after a while even this is not enough for people who expected so much more after having invested so much into the game... whether it be zen or time farming, etc to get OP gear. Hence the general bitterness in this group of players too.

I agree, I think they should take all R9 players and move them to PvP servers since R9 on a PvE server is ridiculous and pointless

seitori · May 2012

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

FCC is a good example. who hasnt bought fcc with noobs or sold it to noobs?

truekossy wrote: »

*raises hand*

Never bought/sold a FCC and have zero intentions to ever do so.

Best to count me as {#2} on that 1 aswell.....b:victory

I've never 'Bought' or 'Sold' an FCC either..... I chose to do (Full/Normal) runs in FC only, back in the day, B4 it became a 'Cash 4 Service' Run.. (None of that Crash XP hunting sh*tt, that it became later)....(b:pleased)

I quit doing FCs all together (Back when Everyone started giving them a price tag)......b:thanks

Its sad, really....b:sad

Tagi - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Time is killing it. As a game ages, the community gets worse and the company stops caring and moves on to better projects. That's just how it works.

Lafuteria - Sanctuary · May 2012

The players.

Hideori - Lost City · May 2012

player base is like farm of sheeps. if nothing controlling them they destroing enviroment and themselfs along.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · May 2012

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

Actually I have quit PWI in protest and have moved on to FW. Over on FW I have quit using the cash shop in protest to another issue there (once again based on balance).

For me, I like PvP servers and the most important issue for players on a PvP server is class balance. I'm not even so distressed by imbalances due to cash shoppers versus non-cash shoppers but a lack of class balance really ticks me off. The whole aps/fish imbalance really pushed me off the edge.

PWE really needs to take a greater interest in player issues beyond what directly affects the cash shop. Happy players will spend more time and more money. Many people have left PWI. I watch my sister play now since she keeps going and Harshlands is a shell of it former self. All because the developers lacked the fortitude to take their own game by the horns and steer it in the direction it needed to go.

I read the patch notes about the laughable APS/Sin nerf and o what a joke. I saw that and realised that the developers as well as other staff involved really have no idea about their own game. Its a clear cut case of they do not actually play the classes to determine balance.

Its sad when you do not even know your own game that you create.

Well, again - PWE has zero influence over the code or even what updates come down the line from Beijing. That's all done by the dev house, which they refuse to give us any info about here nor any real mode of communication (frankieraye = not a method of communication >_>).

As far as sins go, I've said it a million times - take APS away from sins (and BMs, and other classes) and viola, 80% of this game's class balance issues disappear. Why did they do that laughable nerf? Easy - they wanted to look like they gave a **** about us without putting a dent in their real customer base. Too bad anyone with half a brain knows that the "nerf" was useless, and of course the twitch kiddies started whining anyway. So they wanted to please everyone, and they ended up pleasing no one.

Add me to the list of people who have never "bought" or "sold" FF. Some of us have some dignity and genuine respect for this game. >_>

Geshwur - Raging Tide · May 2012

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

They [GMs] made that mistake by making gold cost 100k back then, so they fixed that by charging 1.4 mil per gold.

... I lol'd

GMs hold guns to players heads at the AH and DEMAND them to put the gold they're selling in AH for a specific price...

Uriah - Raging Tide · May 2012

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary wrote: »

The simple truth is both have damaged this game but its mostly the players.

I cant help but laugh every time I read yet another thread in which someone complains about cash shoppers ruining the game. The unfortunate truth is that no "free to play" game is ever truly balanced. If there is an item mall then the game will always end up unbalanced and if there isn't an item mall then there will be no game because the cash shoppers pay to keep the game online.

Now I'm not going to say that because of that the cash shoppers deserve to be over powered gods amongst the player community. But again, the truth is they always will be. Regardless of what items they sell in the item mall, as long as its something all the players will want, the cash shoppers will have a way to get better stuff then the average player.

Right now, almost every item in the boutique can be used by the cash shoppers to be better than non cash shoppers. even if they removed rank 9 altogether from the game, cash shoppers will be better, why? Because they can either sell the stuff everyone wants or just out right sell gold to make loads of coins fast and therefore they are able to just buy the mats needed to make good gear or just buy the good gear itself.

Now personally, I feel alot of the items in the boutique should be able to be farmed in game. Not saying it has to be easy but at least make it available. Make socket stones a random drop from normal mobs, make 1 star dragon orbs random drops from dungeon bosses, FBs, TTs, ect. Make the rep badges drop more often and from other mobs beside bosses and wraith attacks. Make the Rank 9 medals world boss drops. Bottom line is, stuff like that should be farmable by the average player.

As for game play, again, the players ruin it. Honestly think about it, once some new trick or tactic get discovered suddenly no one wants to squad with you if you're not doing it. Remember when no one wanted to squad with a fist BM? I do, you were considered a fail BM if you were rocking claws or fists but then someone figured out APS and now, you're fail if you don't use fists or claws.

Gear snobs, build snobs, class snobs, level snobs, it's all here and that is not the fault of the company.

I agree with this to a point and used to make the same argument. But selling pixels for upwards of $5,000 US Dollars and not even having the staff to handle server maintenance and customer service is a little overboard, don't you think? This game is about nothing but money now. It's not about fantasy, adventure, or questing. Just buying and selling stuff...

Elanxu - Dreamweaver · May 2012

people respond to incentives. u cant blame players for doing wat is easy/makes the game fun for themselves. you can blame the company for making this possible.

Letharella - Sanctuary · May 2012

1. Company makes a new type of gear that is better than the previous one.
2. Players see new OMFG IT'S SO STRONG gear, so they fall into the trap and sell their house and car to buy it.
3. Other people that couldn't get the OMFG IT'S SO STRONG gear rage quit because they think game is unbalanced.
4. Company stops fixing bugs because people that didn't get the OMFG IT'S SO STRONG gear quit, so not enough people to justify bug fixes and updates.
5. People with the OMFG IT'S SO STRONG gear quit because they got no one else to show off their superior gear to and get angry cuz there are no bug fixes.
6. Game dies. Company makes a ton of profit off the players who fell for the trap of the new gear and closes the game, not having to support it anymore, and moves on to make other games.

You draw your own conclusions. I say:
1. People fall in traps too easily.
2. Company is the only one that is a winner after all.

RyuTiger - Raging Tide · May 2012

Commissioner - Archosaur wrote: »

Simple question.

Who is really killing it?

Is it even dying?

1. Game (they wanna get rich to this game and enter the most rich ppl on earth)
2. Players (idiots buy from boutique even if 1 pack will be 50 gold. As long as stupid ppl live, there you go)

Viola__soul_ - Heavens Tear · May 2012

hey man, i didnt read the wole paragraph, dont take offense, but its my turn. k first things first, both sides kill this game. ppl tht play this game, u know the term noob right? well guess wat ppl forget wat the meaning of noob is, they also forget wat its like to be one. for u high lvls out there, tht rnt like this, awesome. good for u, u outta b proud. but ill never b like that. ever. i know tht theres lots of these guys out there, so theres your answer. some ppl tht play this game r responsible for putting ppl down, lets say a young kid downloads this game, plays it for awhile, thn as things progress he finds out low lvls rnt liked in this game. gets a few nasty messages, logs off. his mom asks him, 'sweetie dont u like your game'' why arent u playing it' the kid will say" i dont wanna play it anymore" and thts not just for young ppl, but other as well. let me tell u guys a motto of mine, no dont brush this off. enjoy your losses more then your wins. do u know why? 1. losing u learn from, so in turn u get better, know wat to expect, know wat ur up against. 2. winning all the time has negative effects on ppl and the game. some will say aww im winning all the time im not gnna play anymore, or , 3.if u kept winning, tht can make ppl arogant. tht in turn, is were lw lvls r put down like this. im pretty sure the guys who r in charge of this game want ppl to play it, tyvm. ppl who do this dont help at all. ok next. the company is trying not to kill this game, cuz duh, if thy were, just pull a few plugs and poof. but, they want ppl to play it, thts why they update the wole system every 2 months, to keep ppl coming. u may think they r running out of ideas, hell they might be if ppl think they r boring. maybe they dont wanna admit that they r running out of ideas and dont want help. i wouldnt b afraid to ask for help from the ppl, especially if it meant saving this game. im done. btw, sorry if my grammar is kinda screwy guys, ill try to fiz tht, im just kinda lazy to do it right. ayy, least im actually honest about it.

XxZavxX - Raging Tide · May 2012

On RT there has been a few factions who pretty much rolled the map in TW. The players in those factions get bored as hell when they have no viable competition. So they no longer enjoy one of the most exciting aspects of the game. They don't want to leave the faction and make new factions to even the playing fields out. And that's in their hands. But, I would point out it is understandable why big factions on the different servers wouldn't want to do it. Friendships and such have been forged.

One of the issues with that part of the game is that PWE has a ridiculous expectation on its players. People should not have to spend x-amount of big real life dollars, or x-amount of coins that can take forever to earn to compete with one another.

That's the company's fault. I always have wondered how much money the average player would be willingly to spend versus people like me who have r9 +12. Though I am not gonna to spend anymore on the game myself.

It seems like if PWE set prices down to what the average person is willing to spend instead of the few rich people, or college students like me, are willing to spend then the company would have made more money. And there would be more competitive players in TW and Pk.

I am not really going to comment on PVE. Because I know in all games PVE gets old and repetitive.

Who is really killing the game? The Company, or the Players?

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