Who is really killing the game? The Company, or the Players?

Commissioner - Archosaur · May 2012

Simple question.

Who is really killing it?

Is it even dying?

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Partly time is killing it and other better games are coming out. Lots of things contibuted to its death which has been happening over the last couple years in stages....Stuff like the first rep sale, the one day +11 an 12 orbs sale, the medals for rank 9 getting took out of the dq, dq drops reduced, out right lies about the base wars an base, expansions half finshed .....etc etc.

Lenestro - Sanctuary · May 2012

well technically the players are the ones charging and buying all the stuff, so you could say the players are killing the game. But its like pwi handed the players a loaded gun and said "shoot this game in the head for faceroll gear"

Commissioner - Archosaur · May 2012

hmmm both of you have a point.

ponyduck · May 2012

Lenestro - Sanctuary wrote: »

well technically the players are the ones charging and buying all the stuff, so you could say the players are killing the game. But its like pwi handed the players a loaded gun and said "shoot this game in the head for faceroll gear"

This right here is it in a nutshell.

Quasee - Dreamweaver · May 2012

players, look in beginner section, when new player dling game and asking for tips he gets 20 replies to look for better game and 1 person who welcomes him and helps. this is only game that allows people to spam forum with "game is dead". i wish all those whiners and cryers would find new game and stop coming to forum to spam 3 threads a day how this game is dead, cuz its not

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary · May 2012

The simple truth is both have damaged this game but its mostly the players.

I cant help but laugh every time I read yet another thread in which someone complains about cash shoppers ruining the game. The unfortunate truth is that no "free to play" game is ever truly balanced. If there is an item mall then the game will always end up unbalanced and if there isn't an item mall then there will be no game because the cash shoppers pay to keep the game online.

Now I'm not going to say that because of that the cash shoppers deserve to be over powered gods amongst the player community. But again, the truth is they always will be. Regardless of what items they sell in the item mall, as long as its something all the players will want, the cash shoppers will have a way to get better stuff then the average player.

Right now, almost every item in the boutique can be used by the cash shoppers to be better than non cash shoppers. even if they removed rank 9 altogether from the game, cash shoppers will be better, why? Because they can either sell the stuff everyone wants or just out right sell gold to make loads of coins fast and therefore they are able to just buy the mats needed to make good gear or just buy the good gear itself.

Now personally, I feel alot of the items in the boutique should be able to be farmed in game. Not saying it has to be easy but at least make it available. Make socket stones a random drop from normal mobs, make 1 star dragon orbs random drops from dungeon bosses, FBs, TTs, ect. Make the rep badges drop more often and from other mobs beside bosses and wraith attacks. Make the Rank 9 medals world boss drops. Bottom line is, stuff like that should be farmable by the average player.

As for game play, again, the players ruin it. Honestly think about it, once some new trick or tactic get discovered suddenly no one wants to squad with you if you're not doing it. Remember when no one wanted to squad with a fist BM? I do, you were considered a fail BM if you were rocking claws or fists but then someone figured out APS and now, you're fail if you don't use fists or claws.

Gear snobs, build snobs, class snobs, level snobs, it's all here and that is not the fault of the company.

Jacerai - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Commissioner - Archosaur wrote: »

Is it even dying?

Are we all slowly dying? Yes. Will we all drop dead soon? Some yes, some no.

Quasee - Dreamweaver wrote: »

players, look in beginner section, when new player dling game and asking for tips he gets 20 replies to look for better game and 1 person who welcomes him and helps. this is only game that allows people to spam forum with "game is dead". i wish all those whiners and cryers would find new game and stop coming to forum to spam 3 threads a day how this game is dead, cuz its not

Even though this is nearly a run-on sentence, I agree with it.

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gear snobs, build snobs, class snobs, level snobs, it's all here and that is not the fault of the company.

Basically: people are damaging it. People, people, people. It's no longer a players/company thing, it's a person thing. The group of gaming people as a whole. Even in other games, there seems to be a large (and growing) group of the "jerks and idiots".

Makes me a little sad. b:sad
Ah well. *goes back to playing and enjoying herself* b:cute

shotwhointhewhat · May 2012

The players only play the game how it was designed. If it dies, it is because of the company because they control the design and the way players can play.

And if it does die, then it doesn't change the fact that this has been one of the most successful MMORPGs of all time.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · May 2012

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary wrote: »

The simple truth is both have damaged this game but its mostly the players.

I cant help but laugh every time I read yet another thread in which someone complains about cash shoppers ruining the game. The unfortunate truth is that no "free to play" game is ever truly balanced. If there is an item mall then the game will always end up unbalanced and if there isn't an item mall then there will be no game because the cash shoppers pay to keep the game online.

Now I'm not going to say that because of that the cash shoppers deserve to be over powered gods amongst the player community. But again, the truth is they always will be. Regardless of what items they sell in the item mall, as long as its something all the players will want, the cash shoppers will have a way to get better stuff then the average player.

Right now, almost every item in the boutique can be used by the cash shoppers to be better than non cash shoppers. even if they removed rank 9 altogether from the game, cash shoppers will be better, why? Because they can either sell the stuff everyone wants or just out right sell gold to make loads of coins fast and therefore they are able to just buy the mats needed to make good gear or just buy the good gear itself.

Now personally, I feel alot of the items in the boutique should be able to be farmed in game. Not saying it has to be easy but at least make it available. Make socket stones a random drop from normal mobs, make 1 star dragon orbs random drops from dungeon bosses, FBs, TTs, ect. Make the rep badges drop more often and from other mobs beside bosses and wraith attacks. Make the Rank 9 medals world boss drops. Bottom line is, stuff like that should be farmable by the average player.

As for game play, again, the players ruin it. Honestly think about it, once some new trick or tactic get discovered suddenly no one wants to squad with you if you're not doing it. Remember when no one wanted to squad with a fist BM? I do, you were considered a fail BM if you were rocking claws or fists but then someone figured out APS and now, you're fail if you don't use fists or claws.

Gear snobs, build snobs, class snobs, level snobs, it's all here and that is not the fault of the company.

I would have to put in my two cents, cash shoppers have always have access to better things more than average players who don't buy boutique with real money because they have access to refines, sharding, coins, etc and they don't have to spend much time at all to earn tons of coin.

However, a lot of boutique items should be able to be farmed? That is the worst idea IMHO. Boutique items dropping in PVE is not going to have people pay money for the game and the devs would not want that. They made that mistake by making gold cost 100k back then, so they fixed that by charging 1.4 mil per gold. This will never happen, because thinking about refining in typical MMOs are always in cash shop. You're supposed to spend real money on the game to refine or have someone help you refine by buying it through real life money (refining services). Besides, you can get tisha / tienkangs in event gold from demon/sage event cards. That can be gained from 50k DQ points, so that's not a huge issue.

And for R9 medals, R9 shouldn't even exist in this game... Rank gear in general. Why do you need rank gear? We have way too much gear in this game, it is better to get rid of the broken gears such as R9 and of course the set bonuses you get from certain gear like R9, or R8 recast, nirvy and TT99/90 gold. Decent (even good) OHT gears are good enough but people who use that are considered as noobs because of using OHT equipment.

Also I do remember those ages where claws / fists on a BM were looked down upon, now everyone else is using it only because they see someone permaspark with -interval gear. It shows that they are dependent on others more than being independent. Swords were looked down upon too (Just look at BMs that still flame on BMs that uses swords which are considered fail weapons) Now they have to use swords on their seekers whether they want to or not. When someone finds a way to perma spark on single swords (possibly with R8 recast I think), they will move onto single swords (they do more damage than fists per hit)

seitori · May 2012

Commissioner - Archosaur wrote: »

Simple question.

Who is really killing it?

Is it even dying?

Both are....

{PWE}: Continues to send this 1 to its 'Premature Grave' by choosing not to fix their mistakes in both allowing 'End Game' to easily be buyable now, aswell as not enforce their own {ToS} & punish the worst of the 'Mass (Multi-Count) {ToS} Violators' while also not listening to any suggestions at all, from all the rest of the player base, on how to (Improve/Balance & Better) this game......b:surrender

{Dedicated~Glitch Players}: Because they Flagrantly! Chose too Violate the {ToS} And totally imbalanced the game in the process (While constantly whining about everything like Boredom & then Mouthing off too the other players, who actually tried to level up through the ranks, by not cheating.... And did it through hard work & dedication to the game)

And then by getting away with all of it (Thanks too the Greedy & Corrupt {PWE} Money Grubbers) Who would give orders that Hardcore Punishment should be laid down upon anyone for even Minor Infractions (But then said that giving laughable (7 day suspensions) too single characters on accounts of Obvious FC Glitchers (who only Knowingly violeted the {ToS} Rules an aproximate average of say (24 times (each character) with Glitched in FC runs) was supposidely a Hardcore punishment, When the punishments should have been atleast (7 days per estimated run violation to their Full Accounts (And not their single characters only!?) Aswell as an Immediate Roll Back! Too their original levels B4 the Obvious glitching gains (No one can go up 45 levels to (105th level) in just 3weeks, without glitching)...... b:pleased

{& Both}: Because, in the end they even dropped those {POS!} "Little Proxy Punishments!" On the Worst Violators in PWi History! "Short of that (Phisher/Hacker Group) who nabbed so many other players items (Via Hackjobs) on everyone, back in like (Year 1~of the game)"..... And as such, not only lost our trusts in {PWEs} (Board of Directors) "and their horrifying disconnect level of Greed & Decision making.".... But also Drove so many of the rest of us away from the game itself, when many of Us Have been far more Harshley Punished! for Much more (Minor Violations) to the {ToS} Rules..... Then these {FC Glitchers} will now ever be punished for by them, for their Serial Repeat Offender (Multi-count) violations....b:cold

Quasee - Dreamweaver wrote: »

players, look in beginner section, when new player dling game and asking for tips he gets 20 replies to look for better game and 1 person who welcomes him and helps. this is only game that allows people to spam forum with "game is dead". i wish all those whiners and cryers would find new game and stop coming to forum to spam 3 threads a day how this game is dead, cuz its not

Fascinating point of view you got there NeWbIe!?

But sadly every one of the (Older/Original) Players, like (Tremble & Myself) for example: Have Every Right, too make ourselves heard on the FORUMs on this Matter.... Because we earned it long B4 you or the other Nay Sayers! (Ever even heard of this game, so you could one day join it aswell.)... b:infuriated

And PS: We were some of the most Loyal & Hardcore Cash shoppers around! And we Never expected these sort of laughable (BS! Special treatments!!) that these {FC glitchers} have gotten here by the {PWE} Heads; in exchange for their minor purchasing investments into this game, as they buried its future.....b:thanks

Naychur - Harshlands · May 2012

-removed-

mathewbruce2011 · May 2012

Its the players who spoil the soup.

cheap flights
cheap flights to auckland

Naychur - Harshlands · May 2012

-removed-

Miugre - Heavens Tear · May 2012

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary wrote: »

The simple truth is both have damaged this game but its mostly the players.

I cant help but laugh every time I read yet another thread in which someone complains about cash shoppers ruining the game. The unfortunate truth is that no "free to play" game is ever truly balanced. If there is an item mall then the game will always end up unbalanced and if there isn't an item mall then there will be no game because the cash shoppers pay to keep the game online.

Now I'm not going to say that because of that the cash shoppers deserve to be over powered gods amongst the player community. But again, the truth is they always will be. Regardless of what items they sell in the item mall, as long as its something all the players will want, the cash shoppers will have a way to get better stuff then the average player.

Right now, almost every item in the boutique can be used by the cash shoppers to be better than non cash shoppers. even if they removed rank 9 altogether from the game, cash shoppers will be better, why? Because they can either sell the stuff everyone wants or just out right sell gold to make loads of coins fast and therefore they are able to just buy the mats needed to make good gear or just buy the good gear itself.

Now personally, I feel alot of the items in the boutique should be able to be farmed in game. Not saying it has to be easy but at least make it available. Make socket stones a random drop from normal mobs, make 1 star dragon orbs random drops from dungeon bosses, FBs, TTs, ect. Make the rep badges drop more often and from other mobs beside bosses and wraith attacks. Make the Rank 9 medals world boss drops. Bottom line is, stuff like that should be farmable by the average player.

As for game play, again, the players ruin it. Honestly think about it, once some new trick or tactic get discovered suddenly no one wants to squad with you if you're not doing it. Remember when no one wanted to squad with a fist BM? I do, you were considered a fail BM if you were rocking claws or fists but then someone figured out APS and now, you're fail if you don't use fists or claws.

Gear snobs, build snobs, class snobs, level snobs, it's all here and that is not the fault of the company.

The thing about this is, when PWI started, its cash shop was very balanced. We didn't have Packs, we didn't have Ocean Orbs, and we sure as hell didn't have anything related to rep or rank or chips. Yeah, you could +10 a weapon if you were certifiably insane, but you'd have to buy +5 orbs at 18 bucks a pop. And the people who would do that are few and far-between... certainly not enough to fill an 80vs80 TW with everyone using +10 or better. And aside from those Dorbs, the only thing that really gave any sort of game advantage was inventory and bank extensions (and maybe mounts, if you wanted to make a time = money argument XD).

And you know what? That formula worked. To this day I remain convinced that if they'd stuck to that business model, the game would be healthy today instead of circling the drain like it is. Instead the company opted for a quick-money route by pandering to what I've come to call the Twitch Brigade (though 5aps users certainly aren't the only offenders).

It's really just a curious facet of human nature; by default we try to latch onto anything which gives us an advantage (whether real or perceived, or in this case virtual) and never stop to consider the ramifications of that behavior. At least, not until it's too late. But one day, we turn around and look at the smoldering **** that used to be our game, and what does human nature demand we do? Pass the buck. Blame someone else. After all, it's those lousy QQers who ruined PWI, right? Surely my spending $3000 (or supporting someone who spent $3000) on R9 had nothing to do with it! It's just a drop in the bucket, right? Just like every time you encouraged someone to buy R8 because it's the new standard. Just like every time you powerleveled people for money because you'd sooner reward the impatience of five n00bs than put off your next refinement level another day. Just like every time you turned down a non-aps player for Nirvana because they aren't "efficient" enough. Hell, every time you bought a single token. All of those things, just drops in the bucket. The problem is, eventually that bucket's gonna be full, or tainted (or however that analogy goes, lol), and someone has to answer for it.

So whose fault is it? Both. It's the players' fault for deluding themselves and failing to recognize what they were doing, and it's PW*'s fault for engineering a system that profits off this kind of behavior. No one is blameless. But the worst part is how it all could've been avoided. Honestly, after seeing what happened to PWI, I can totally understand why people are losing faith in f2p games in general. But I really do believe PWI had the potential to defy that stereotype. Instead, we got reject devs, next to ZERO communication between us and said devs, a support staff on this side of the pond who are basically the de facto "damage control" for when those devs **** up, and a cash shop which is even more broken than the Chinese version's. And as it turns out, 99% of players didn't give a **** as long as they could make their pixels twitch a little faster.

tl;dr: THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS. -_-

Naychur - Harshlands wrote:

[pserver name] !! GO THERE!!! HAVE FUN!!! GAME ISNT DYING LIKE PWI!

......it's a pserver. Even if pservers were good (lol), they still have fewer people than official servers practically by definition. >_> Let's not kid ourselves here.

shotwhointhewhat · May 2012

I fail to see how it is the player's fault.

Players are playing the game exactly how it was designed to be played by the company.

So if the players are playing according to design and the design is controlled by the company, then the company ultimately controls the destiny of the game.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

......it's a pserver. Even if pservers were good (lol), they still have fewer people than official servers practically by definition. >_> Let's not kid ourselves here.

Have you played it? Their pk wars that could happen at any time are bigger than most of the TWs in this game. PK there is more active than all servers combined here.

Auronite - Archosaur · May 2012

but whats to say that the compony created this game and controls us in away that they are forcing us to chose our own destiny!

Lenestro - Sanctuary · May 2012

Naychur - Harshlands wrote: »

***

people like you get good threads locked

PheosNyx - Sanctuary · May 2012

Players tick me off way more than the game. Mostly the dd that drive me nuts, ijs.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tl;dr: THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS -_-

Rofl xD

Xainou - Sanctuary · May 2012

shotwhointhewhat wrote: »

Have you played it? Their pk wars that could happen at any time are bigger than most of the TWs in this game. PK there is more active than all servers combined here.

So what? I tried and get bored easy as **. Isn't the point of this game to play with friends, do stuff together, farm stuff, not just plain pk day in day out?

As for OP: The game's been dying for a few years now according to forums. I don't pay it too much attention. Yea, people go and people come but that's life. People will sooner or later get busy in real life.

EtherbIade - Harshlands · May 2012

I'll say a bit of everything could kill a game, players, the game itself and other game.

But i think some people freak out a bit too much, they all say the game will die cause -removed- and -removed- is coming, but people said the same thing when -removed- and Forsaken world was about to come out too and PWI didnt die.

Some players quit, some come back and some new players come too so its like that everywhere.

I personnally won't considere PWI dead til the day ill be alone on my server or the day i wont be able log in cause don't work anymore.

P.s: Fuzzy

i saved you job and removed myself the ''bad'' words. b:chuckle

Ruxal - Harshlands · May 2012

I place the blame for the state of PWI firmly on the shoulders of the developers. My major bone to pick is with the developers for failing to nerf the aps cap and for failing to nerf assassins and psychics. The failed completely at balancing the classes.

I cannot blame players for taking advantage of a situation. The developers failed to take control of an easily controllable situation.

unceuncerave · May 2012

Everyones at fault.

The players - Ego , Plvling noobs, Cliques

Company - Failing to equalize everything including APS and tideborn race.

CBA to write a wall of text.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · May 2012

shotwhointhewhat wrote: »

I fail to see how it is the player's fault.

Players are playing the game exactly how it was designed to be played by the company.

So if the players are playing according to design and the design is controlled by the company, then the company ultimately controls the destiny of the game.

Let me ask you an honest question here - do you actually know the history of this game? Because if you did, I don't think you'd be saying it's being played "as designed." Actually, to say this game was "designed" properly at all would be a stretch. Oh sure, it was awesome in its original form, back when Arch Studios originally made it. But those weren't the devs we had by launch day. And once the RT-era devs got their hands on it, we pretty much lost all hope of ever seeing proper bug fixes in the old code.

Look at APS for a good example. Was it originally coded to be possible to reach 5aps? Sure. But did the original devs expect it to be abused the way it is today? Hell no. You do not "design" a game where the bosses die in thirty seconds or less to people with certain gears when an entire squad of normally-geared players would take ten times as long. Personally, I think it was just an oversight... the original devs probably looked at the aps cap and thought "people are never gonna hit that, or if they do, it'll just be one or two crazy no-lifers who spend 23 hours a day grinding for their gears." Either way, they weren't the businessmen... their job was to write the code, not search for ways to exploit it.

shotwhointhewhat wrote: »

Have you played it? Their pk wars that could happen at any time are bigger than most of the TWs in this game. PK there is more active than all servers combined here.

Okay, and you know what that tells me? Your server has at least 161 people. XD Hooray for you. (Or did you mean something else besides "bigger than most TWs"?)

All kidding aside, do not make the mistake of assuming that all anyone cares about is PK. Even assuming you fixed all the problems with PVP here on the official servers (lol), it's just not everyone's idea of a good time, and it's certainly no reason for Naychur to come in here yelling "WOOO PWI SUX WERE BETTER LOL!!!" If you want a good PVP system, I'm sure there are a dozen other games which put this one to shame in that department, no matter what a pserver owner does to it.

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote:

I cannot blame players for taking advantage of a situation. The developers failed to take control of an easily controllable situation.

You say that as if, when some broken new gear comes out, the players have no choice but to upgrade or forfeit their fun with the game. And it's that exact line of thinking that puts the players at fault along with the company. Maybe it's more necessary on a PVP server, but then, if you cared about balanced PVP at all you wouldn't be playing on a server where that mindset is allowed to flourish.

Is the company still at fault for corrupting the system in this way? Sure. But nothing's stopping you from rolling on a PVE server and washing your hands of the whole broken mess (or indeed, just quitting the game entirely). You chose to roll on HL, and your server-mates chose to abandon balanced PVP in favor a broken gear system. So if you choose to stay on HL anyway and partake in the same system, you are by no means blameless.

Salari - Raging Tide · May 2012

If people would spend half the time they use complaining to farm they would be rich in game too.

Ruxal - Harshlands · May 2012

Actually I have quit PWI in protest and have moved on to FW. Over on FW I have quit using the cash shop in protest to another issue there (once again based on balance).

For me, I like PvP servers and the most important issue for players on a PvP server is class balance. I'm not even so distressed by imbalances due to cash shoppers versus non-cash shoppers but a lack of class balance really ticks me off. The whole aps/fish imbalance really pushed me off the edge.

PWE really needs to take a greater interest in player issues beyond what directly affects the cash shop. Happy players will spend more time and more money. Many people have left PWI. I watch my sister play now since she keeps going and Harshlands is a shell of it former self. All because the developers lacked the fortitude to take their own game by the horns and steer it in the direction it needed to go.

I read the patch notes about the laughable APS/Sin nerf and o what a joke. I saw that and realised that the developers as well as other staff involved really have no idea about their own game. Its a clear cut case of they do not actually play the classes to determine balance.

Its sad when you do not even know your own game that you create.

Ruxal - Harshlands · May 2012

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

If people would spend half the time they use complaining to farm they would be rich in game too.

This is not about making money for me. Money was never my issue and was not the reason why many of us left/quit. Prior to our mass exodus we were happy. When we realised the full extent of the OPness of the fish and the aps system we cried out to the GMs in hopes they would convey our feelings to the devs. Nothing serious ever happened. We were ignored so we left!

For us open world PvP and TW is what we craved. As one of the very earliest players the open field pk battles at boss spawns were nothing short of epic. Then came the fish and aps and it became a one shot fest. R8 (which I have - cash shopped) and r9 just drove the final wedges into the broken system!

Money? meh. Balance between classes on a PvP server.......ding ding ding....you have a winner! Once the classes are balanced its simply a matter of getting your gear up to par. But its useless when you spend just as much as the next guy and die in two hits.....wait two twitches!

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary · May 2012

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

PWE really needs to take a greater interest in player issues beyond what directly affects the cash shop. Happy players will spend more time and more money. Many people have left PWI.

Not trying to be funny here but it seems to me that the R9 +10 players are pretty happy and lets face it, If you're willing to spend all the cash needed to not only buy the medals needed to make R9 but also buy the rep and D orbs needed to get it all to +10 or higher. Then you're more then likely to spend more cash to have 3.2 flyers, 11ms mounts, newest fashions and the dye to make it black.

Point being, like any business, you're gonna be more interested in the high rollers then the people who might spend $20 a month. Not saying its right, just telling you the truth.

Desdi - Sanctuary · May 2012

Both are to be blamed.

Let's be serious, who would refuse to buy the gear when it's available and so easy to acquire? Whether that was through extensive farming or charging zen, it is too tempting. I don't blame people for getting R9 and whatnot.

I don't have it but you can be sure as hell that if I had the money or the time to dedicate to the game (college now so not enough time) I would have gone the r9 route as well. Actually, I'm already planning for it if I have my summer free this year.

I value achievement, farming, working for something but sometimes we can't help but go for the easy road just because it's available to us. This is human nature and the company took advantage of that.

It's beyond me why they chose to do it, I doubt they didn't see this coming. Especially not after all these complaints. Maybe they just chose to milk the game and let it die to make space for something new in the future. Who knows.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Duke_Lion - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not trying to be funny here but it seems to me that the R9 +10 players are pretty happy and lets face it, If you're willing to spend all the cash needed to not only buy the medals needed to make R9 but also buy the rep and D orbs needed to get it all to +10 or higher. Then you're more then likely to spend more cash to have 3.2 flyers, 11ms mounts, newest fashions and the dye to make it black.

Point being, like any business, you're gonna be more interested in the high rollers then the people who might spend $20 a month. Not saying its right, just telling you the truth.

Agreed with everything except the part in red.

Unfortunately one of the consequences of having the ultimate end game gear that the game has to offer is that many end up being bored out of their skulls with it. Really... no one pays the truck load of cash they did for R9 just to be OP in the daily BH's, TT or occasional Delta. Which leaves PVP and since open world PK is basically also dead... that just leaves the lone weekend TWs to strut your stuff. And after a while even this is not enough for people who expected so much more after having invested so much into the game... whether it be zen or time farming, etc to get OP gear. Hence the general bitterness in this group of players too.

RandomDent - Dreamweaver · May 2012

The company.

Sure, there may be other factors, and ultimately it's the players who decide what they do with what's available, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the ones capable of altering the game itself.

Rank 9 gear is so ridiculously overpowered compared to the next best thing that adding it to the cash shop destroyed any sense of fairness left in PvP/TW. Go get full nirvana gear, then find someone with full rank 9 +12 and have them go afk and let you beat on them, you probably won't be able to kill them before their charm ticks; when they come back from afk they can poke a couple random keys and you'll die. (ok, that may be a slight exaggeration....)

There are a few different types of PvP'ers, one definitely likes winning easily and they are willing to spend any amount of money or time for that ability. The majority might want a fair fight, but they aren't the ones who will spend more on a game than the computer they play it with. We all know by now who PWI is really making their game for.

Who is really killing the game? The Company, or the Players?

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