Tank build barb potential at end game?
Comments
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I would be hard-pressed to think of a "good" claw barb I've seen play. Although TBH, most of the ones I met acted like complete hyper noobs as well.ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »I know a few VERY few claw barbs that are actually good barbs (and that's cause they cs and put big $ into the build) most aps barbs suck badly, they can't do full pulls, they can't dd as good as aps bms or even aps archers.
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Basicly you have a bm already, it is cheaper (and smarter) for you to make your bm aps (2 sets of gear if you aren't aps on it already) and have your barb for barb things (and share gear too if you use the same account with account stash)NecroTwist - Sanctuary wrote: »idk, ive been pretty successful in holding most agro thats not one on one. the idea is to get sunder and a few other moves in first before all the other impatient DD start attacking. Barbs would be far more useful if everyone wouldnt attack at the sight of mobs. personally ive only met one aps barb that wasnt a fail, but even then he could not pull like i could.
The reason vit barbs are dying out is solely because everyone else doesnt understand how the squad dynamics work with a vit barb and just attack all out the instant the mobs poke up near them. ive met bm's that are too impatient and they HF only 1/3 of the mobs because instead of letting me group them together, they HF as the first mob runs by.
Both of you hit it on the nail here. Everyone starts attacking right off the bat and doesn't let me, (the tank), build aggro for more than about 5 seconds at best. Give me more like 10 or 15 seconds to build aggro and you won't be getting it back easily. As early as my late 60's and early 70's I was holding aggro from 95+ BM's and Archers when I was given that short period of time to build aggro before they started in on the boss.ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »wrong, I know barbs that can keep agro from r9 +12 sins just fine. My sin isn't r9, nirvana +10 but sage I deal a heck of a lot of damage. There is a huge difference between good barbs and bad barbs and unfortunately aps have lead to the good barbs giving up and the bad barbs being dead weight in squads.
1. I don't read where SylenThunder is acting like we (barbs) are APS lovers, and he does bring an interesting arcument for making the claw a viable weapon for barbs._Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »
why should i wana use fist or claw on my build its not his real weapon just a dumb mechanism so dont act like all of us are aps lower.SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Personally I would love to see the Claw (not fist) added to the gear lineup that works for barbs. It only makes sense from a class standpoint that barbs could use claws. This would be extremely helpful to the barb class for claw barbs holding aggro and would revive their class as the official tank in the game, no matter what the build.
On the same note, I would love to see a magical claw for venomancers, and would like to see the fists limited to the BM class. Claws would be for the Untamed, and the other classes will just have to do with their appropriate class weapons. (No more Claw-Clerics >.<)
It would ultimately destroy the game though because of the preconceived notions of the player base that pretty much states that if you aren't 5.0, you're fail.
5.0 didn't destroy the game, the players did by being so narrow minded.
this is ur idea alone not the barb comunity as a whole
2. Of course it's his opinion. He never stated that it was the opinion of the barb community.
I think maybe you need to try reading what's actually being said before you reply next time.
+10 to this post.my baby barb is 96 now, but since lvl 93 he's had 18k hp. He's sage w/o his sage buffs yet b:cry
He's 100% pure vit build... so much so I have to watch what he wears cause 1pt breaks him sometimes... anyway.. people laugh, mock, call him fail, till they actually see him in business then they are happy to see him. When others in GV or WS are dieing he's running around playing with the mobs/ boss's killing them slowly while everyone else regroups.
He does not use a HP charm at all ( he would take two breaths and it would be gone b:bye ) but he does use a mp charm.
I love him very much... why?, .. cause when all those fancy $$ sins / barbs fall on their face, lil or BareBear comes in and shows them how its really done.
He's got 80 Gold gear mostly +4.. his only high end piece is his helm which is +8 ( xmas gift to myself )
He's been able to solo frost for a LONG time... major repair bill, but he can do it...
If you want things done yesterday, the no, he's not the right person...
if you want things done safely and reliably then call him up you won't regret it..
unless your stupid and fight him for tank, then I just let you and when you die, I go back to being the good tank I am and saving the party.
thats my 3 cents worth ( inflation )
At 90, I'm a VIT build with marginal gear, I have just over 16k hp buffed. (Can't wait to be able to afford Sage BKI and SoT.) A bit more refining and some more levels and I'll be right there where you are. I can pull the long hall in FCC and then sit and kill the shade while I wait for the cleric and the rest of the squad to figure it out and catch up without worries. Hell I hardly even have to pot for it. Pulling in Delta, not a problem. Only run I've had a major failure on was a spawn point where the only ones that actually knew what they were doing were myself, a BM, and the cleric.
Sure I don't kill stuff fast, but when it comes to holding aggro and staying alive, I'm your man. (Isn't that the actual job of the tank anyway?)0 -
http://pwcalc.com/11fa3f34fe330526
I do pretty much anything just fine. I am tomeless right now DX
str build[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
Started playing on March 20100 -
Personally i wouldn't call what you have there a "str" build. to me, a str build would have far less vit, putting most extra points into STR - whereas you have 161 base vit / 301 base str. This is basically a VIT build, with the exception that you haven't restatted your extra STR into VIT like a "pure vit" barb would do.Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »http://pwcalc.com/11fa3f34fe330526
I do pretty much anything just fine. I am tomeless right now DX
str build
my personal build is this: http://www.pwcalc.com/7600b7ab47762c7d
I've got less base STR than you do, but my gears add 38 points, bringing me out ahead of you in str.
personal suggestion would be to use mdef ornaments as opposed to pdef ones. Overall you'd be sacrificing about 1% pdef after full buffs, but you'd be gaining 7% mdef (tt90 gold aa neck and paradise sachet both +4), which is essential in surviving large pulls in rebirth, not to mention PK against mage classes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
As a high lvl Barb, also on HT server, i can say it just depends on what you wanna do as a barb. If you JUST wanna pull catas then go full vit. Now if you actually wanna TANK in PvE, full vit build wont do. Aps has ruined the mechanics of the game. Barb agro skills WORK, but only if your damage is high enough. I was a full vit build. Was great for pulling catas. But i wasnt "TANKING" anything in PvE cause the APS always had agro. I actually have since restated to full STR. I now can keep agro from all but the most OP of APS chars.
Now understand that i sacrificed @8-9k HP in tiger form to do this but have found that i can still tank ANYTHING in PVE at 26.5k HP. But im all +10 TT99+ to get that 26.5k.
Hope this insite helps you decide what you would like to do with your barb.0 -
after some calculations between an "equivalently built" 3.33 base sin and a 1.43 base demon barb:
http://www.pwcalc.com/36324b1142ad307f
http://www.pwcalc.com/7090c6e90096d333
the average damage output of the sin with buffs, not sparked, over 15 seconds comes out to 540,459 (before defenses)
the average damage output of the barb with buffs, not sparked, over 15 seconds comes out to 322,897 (before defenses)
15 seconds allows for 4-5 flesh reams. with four demon reams, the barb is adding 200k worth of skill based aggro, which adds to his own damage based aggro - which on a level 150 boss would place him ahead of the sin in terms of aggro threshold - so long as the sin doesn't spark constantly. With that kind of aps on a barb, ream spam is entirely possible as the attack rate will more than build enough chi to keep reaming constantly. With the aid of bestial rage, on longer fights the barb tank can actually build chi to spark with later on... though i'd still recommend starting out with a spark to retain early aggro[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »after some calculations between an "equivalently built" 3.33 base sin and a 1.43 base demon barb:
http://www.pwcalc.com/36324b1142ad307f
http://www.pwcalc.com/7090c6e90096d333
the average damage output of the sin with buffs, not sparked, over 15 seconds comes out to 540,459 (before defenses)
the average damage output of the barb with buffs, not sparked, over 15 seconds comes out to 322,897 (before defenses)
I don't know what kind of math you're doing, but the sin has an average DPS of 53,721 whereas the barb has 28,479, meaning over 15 seconds they'd get 805,815 and 427,185 respectively.
Also, there's no reason why the sin should be unsparked: if they're 3.33 base, they can maintain a healthy permaspark.
Sparked, the sin would be looking at 158,064 DPS, or 2,370,960 in 15 seconds.
Also, those recast r8 weapons aren't realistic, since they're lacking the unique mod.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
redoing the math now, I'll show my work, also didnt account for the crit rates earlier. This is how i figured the average dps, not sure what math you did:
sin: (9876+11764)/2 *3.33 *15 *1.42 = 767,451.78
barb: (12755+17352) / 2 * 1.43 * 15 * 1.26 = 406,850.22
are you looking at the max damage potential only Olbaze?
and the reason for comparing unsparked dps was to show that a barb is capable of holding aggro over the sin, so long as the sin doesn't permaspark. Yes, I know its possible that the sin can tank most stuff on perma spark, but wasn't the entire argument that "barbs cant hold aggro at end game"?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
DUH....im a barb........DUH........i mean.........DUH...... whats the point if the DDs cant spark as often as possible?
DUH!!!
IJS0 -
Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »redoing the math now, I'll show my work, also didnt account for the crit rates earlier. This is how i figured the average dps, not sure what math you did:
sin: (9876+11764)/2 *3.33 *15 *1.42 = 767,451.78
barb: (12755+17352) / 2 * 1.43 * 15 * 1.26 = 406,850.22
are you looking at the max damage potential only Olbaze?
No, I was looking at the averages. If you add the 1.05 for the Attack Levels, you get 805,824 and 427,192. However, by truncating to integers before multiplying by 15, you get 805,815 and 427,185, which were the numbers I used earlier.
I prefer to use integers mostly because I copy-paste my numbers from the Windows Calculator, which sometimes gives unnecessarily precise values. The reason I truncated before multiplying by 15 was because I counted the dps before counting it over 15 seconds, as you can see from my post.and the reason for comparing unsparked dps was to show that a barb is capable of holding aggro over the sin, so long as the sin doesn't permaspark. Yes, I know its possible that the sin can tank most stuff on perma spark, but wasn't the entire argument that "barbs cant hold aggro at end game"?
A sin that doesn't spark is a wasted sin.
As for tank barbs, who knows. Someone I know restatted to claws on his barb and said he hated it, whereas someone else I know rerolled from 5 aps BM to 5 aps barb after feeling that a barb would be more useful.
And it's not like a clawbarb suddenly cannot pull or tank in PvE. They do that just fine, so long as they have decent refines. It just happens that most clawbarbs aren't people who originally intended to go for claws, but people who restatted to claws after feeling "useless" or "unwanted", most likely in Nirvana. These people wouldn't have a pure str build and thus would have **** DPS, plus most likely their gear isn't too great either, since a vita build barb doesn't need great gear to have decent HP. It's very similar to how we have tons of squishy 5 aps sins because most sins figure "hell, I'll just get to +10 5 aps, someone will have better gear than me anyway and thus I won't be tanking and won't need high armor refines".I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
With regards to aggro holding, a barb wont hold aggro over many end game sins. A few of the rare exceptional barbs are able to appear to hold aggro by using aggro reset skills intermittently (roar/alphamale). In doing so can tick tock the aggro making it a little easier for the sin to tank.
As for my opinion your choice should be more dependant on who you are squadding with than its exact effectiveness. A squad with already insane DD lvl often finds more use for a devour barb than a claw. The opposite is true for the lower lvl DD squads.
Personally the squads I run with have claw barbs, but are quick to recognise when its better to stop APSing and move to playing as an amper.
Make your judgement based on how you play with your squads.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »A sin that doesn't spark is a wasted sin.
As for tank barbs, who knows. Someone I know restatted to claws on his barb and said he hated it, whereas someone else I know rerolled from 5 aps BM to 5 aps barb after feeling that a barb would be more useful.
And it's not like a clawbarb suddenly cannot pull or tank in PvE. They do that just fine, so long as they have decent refines. It just happens that most clawbarbs aren't people who originally intended to go for claws, but people who restatted to claws after feeling "useless" or "unwanted", most likely in Nirvana. These people wouldn't have a pure str build and thus would have **** DPS, plus most likely their gear isn't too great either, since a vita build barb doesn't need great gear to have decent HP. It's very similar to how we have tons of squishy 5 aps sins because most sins figure "hell, I'll just get to +10 5 aps, someone will have better gear than me anyway and thus I won't be tanking and won't need high armor refines".
this is essentially my point though. theres sooo many low refined aps sins and barbs that do fine on lower end bosses in 2-x, maybe able to solo/duo or tank with BB. But Ive run with those exact same sins who have that mentality of "someone is going to hold aggro off of me" and they do what all sins know how to do best - they permaspark and get aggro that they just cant handle. Ive seen SOOO many sins die at slasher boss in nirvana - even with a cleric in squad - because they just dont have the pdef or hp to take too many hits. These sins, rather than accepting that they in fact are NOT the best tank for such bosses, continue the same behaviour and end up mad that they are taking too much damage for them and the cleric to be able to handle. So when this happens, it always reverts to me bouncing the aggro around for them (because they are still dead set on permasparking), i devour and frighten + tangling mire or ep if their damage is to high for me to keep it constantly... all in efforts to boost their healing ability from BP, and reduce the amount of damage that they take. Never mind that they could be using rib strike to slow the boss' attack rate, but all they care about is "fast fast fast"
you gotta realize that not everyone in this game is rank 8/9, nirvy, or 5aps +12. People act like it, but its far from the truth. Yeah there's the ones out there that *can* solo it - but if you can solo you dont need a tank or heals right? Lets begin to look at things realistically here.. theres still a lot of people that need a real tank in this game - and not every aps toon is up to the challenge - period. Emperor does about 10k magic damage aoe that drops all but vit barbs and high refined DD. Even still, I've seen 17k hp sins drop at emperor. And people still try to claim that an average build aps toon is the best tank.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
@Baalbak
Your views are much more refreshing than most stating to go clawbarb.
But what do you think is the potential at endgame. Meaning what can a barb do to earn money, what instances are they welcome to if they stay tank build, etc?Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right. -Henry Ford0 -
MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear wrote: »@Baalbak
Your views are much more refreshing than most stating to go clawbarb.
But what do you think is the potential at endgame. Meaning what can a barb do to earn money, what instances are they welcome to if they stay tank build, etc?
Barbs got AoEs but I don't think barbs are too efficient grinders for making money. So unlike some classes, barbs can't make too much coins grinding on map unless they are quite geared.
There are 2 quite good options for making money though the income is really server depedant. The best way is selling trophy mode runs with a sin I suppose and that can prolly land you 10m/hour. Problem is creating the initial reputation after you've learned how to do it efficiently. And as its service to other players - sometimes there is just nobody that wants a run.
The 2nd good option is SP delta. But as that instance is so under farmed on my server, it's hard to get on safe squads unless you have rep/gear or both. It's also riskier as most of the wealth comes from last bosses and failing will drastically impact coins/hour number. I think that if I sold my drops w/o any OBP I'd be making ~1-1.5m/hour profit after repairs from finished SP delta. Every OBP would be extra 500k(on archo) and I didn't account shard drops from shrooms either. But unless you have friends/are decently geared yourself - finding squad can be troublesome.
Ps. Am not the one you asked but I suppose I did no harm in giving my opinion.
Pps. Always do your bh1s and chain bh deltas into full sp deltas. Bh is easy to get to as a barb and it usually is ~1m/hour income - repairs as squad that takes over 30mins is just slow.Trolling Sid since So Hot
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There is no 'right' or 'wrong' built on barb. The choice of endgame built & cultivation is just a matter of playing style.
For example,
people who like to farm and solo stuffs (nirvana or TT) would most likely go APS.
People who participate in west-arch pk (one-on-one) might benefit a lot from a strength built.
If tiger tanking style suits your playing style, then, go for it. The only pit fall for pure tank built is that the roles are limited: pulling RB (and Metal, FF or Lunar occasionally), catapulling, arma-ing in pvp or being the punching bag, and doing buff-pr0stiti0n for other people.
The idea of holding aggro on boss at endgame is reduced to nothing but a cashshop fantasy... wherever you'll be trying to hold aggro with aps or flesh ream; there is always a sin who will rip aggro off you. Just don't ever expect that any squad will take you to tank a boss.
There is also the general misconception about APS builts (or other non-tiger tank builts): Barbs are still the class with highest HP in the game. APS barbs can accomplish RB, catapulling as well as other tanking roles; they might need more skills or get better gears by farming... but they always get the job done. Most experienced APS barbs do spend a significant amount of time in tiger form.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I always appreciate good input.
But isn't that a little sad? It seems that a player who chooses a barb as his first character cannot make a lot of money unless he/she has a sin or BM to either AOE grind or get a good APS and going for Nirvana. (assuming barb does not consider option of going claw)
Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right. -Henry Ford0 -
MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear wrote: »I always appreciate good input.
But isn't that a little sad? It seems that a player who chooses a barb as his first character cannot make a lot of money unless he/she has a sin or BM to either AOE grind or get a good APS and going for Nirvana. (assuming barb does not consider option of going claw)
Well barbs need less gear to do delta or tm that I mentioned as best ways to make money than Aps need to get taken into nirvana. And during normal drops nirvana is bout 3m or 6m per hour on archo depending on if you 6 or 3 man it. But yeah, for barb to make money, he needs a squad.
Edit: Going axes doesn't mean you can't get into nirvana but it's only friends/faction that will take you. Devour is so underrated skill but it really helps lower Aps squads as it also takes nice chunk of the dmg bosses deal with frighten helping too.Trolling Sid since So Hot0 -
Being a seeker or any arcane class would also be sad, you can't rely on yourself to farm a lot of stuff.
FYI, AOE grind is obsolete, just too time-inefficient even for a seeker. It's still much easier to beg someone to go for a TT or nirvana money run.
I'mma change the tone coz it might be getting a bit too cynical.
As a barb, there is still a lot of fun stuff to do... like dropping an Arma bomb in big room and making it look like a 'one-shot' all mobs, or comparing your 3mil - arma critical damage with your fish friends. Barbs rarely get rejected from BH squads: people can always use a barb buff or a p-def debuffer. If you need a full RB, you dont need to world chat for an hour to look for a tank, you can count on yourself to pull your own RB. And socially speaking, its always fun to hang around as a barb, act like a fearsome tiger or as cute kitty cat, and make barb-awareness events like: 'sell your mount, ride a barb instead'.b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
But despite all that, with APS, a barb is pretty much screwed?Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right. -Henry Ford0
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MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear wrote: »But despite all that, with APS, a barb is pretty much screwed?
As long as people abuse spark eruption, advanced and celestial version, (this is where DDs steal aggro very easily) and they would have gear refined a lot to survive well end up as tanks which makes faster kills, it is often 4.0 permasparking sins and bms where barbs become half moot because as long as they stay alive while dishing out an overwhelming amount of DPS where barbs really have trouble with aggro.
Forget about APS toons, not only barbs have trouble with those guys, but people who spark like nobody's business. Only aggro barb could keep from is veno. Archers steal aggro with bows and that is not even half of 4.0. Wizards steal aggro with their AOEs, don't forget about psy with not only high damage but really fast base channeling. Look at the class forums from back then, glass cannons (especially pre-APS sins) had to manage their damage because they would have trouble surviving, after they refine gears high up enough to be able to tank, barbs become useless because it is faster if the one with the easier time to aggro end up tanking. Now seekers most likely killed the barb's role rather than the APS craze...
So is it potential at endgame? It would be a potential at endgame if spark did not exist. Often 5.0 toons are complained about (clearly because it is spark burst) and there's lots of amps and nasty debuffs which makes it the reason why barbs are not a viable class for endgame rather than Beast king's inspiration and Strength of the titans. Blame the devs for having this easy mode skill in the first place.0 -
That was just an estimate. Highest I seen sage pure tank barb(sage true form) was 44k hp. But I know it's possible to reach higher depending on what endgame gear you choose.
I'm not talking about how high hp can go, but only the difference between claw and full vit builds. Just because someone is claw build doesn't mean he has base vit, you lose at most 91 vit, and that is assuming you don't use another tome to boost your dex.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear wrote: »I was wondering, if very hypothetically, I decide to start my barb after this BM, is it okay to leave my barb as a tank barb?
Everyone has been telling me about going claw build, even the barbs I run with for FF now are claw builds.
I kinda felt like being a cata barb or something in TW. But is that the only thing a tank build barb is good for at endgame?
If you're building a BM...WHY would you bother with an APS build for your barb? Go vit build if you want a barb for different purposes than your BM.0 -
Barbs are made to absorb dmg while dealing in high dmg. barbs arent made to have claws or fists. its pathetic and reasonably insane to those tht think that barbs are better with fist or claws than the traditional barb who tanks, holds agro, keeps the squad and himself alive. clawbarbs are just a big insult to the barb class to which they need to be eliminated. if any barb wants to use claws or fists, roll an archer or bm.The Sure Shot that Flies Straight
Tiduswarrior Demon 101 (Main), Vanflyheight 100 (Demon RB2), SasukeZx 95 (Demon), Leobeastking 90s (Sage), Swiftterror 80s, AquaStriker 99 (Sage)
2nd Acc: BlademageX 88, RazorFalcon 89, RavenwingZ 79, Veilpor 73, TidalLight 30, SythrilZ 64, Stormthril 640 -
Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »Barbs are made to absorb dmg while dealing in high dmg. barbs arent made to have claws or fists. its pathetic and reasonably insane to those tht think that barbs are better with fist or claws than the traditional barb who tanks, holds agro, keeps the squad and himself alive. clawbarbs are just a big insult to the barb class to which they need to be eliminated. if any barb wants to use claws or fists, roll an archer or bm.
I rofled at that. Archers using claws/fists are a disgrace to their class as well.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory0 -
If you aren't going to be a cata barb or if you only intend to PvE, there's actually no reason why your endgame shouldn't be using claws/fists, unless you just suck at your class and need an oversized hp total to compensate.
PvE is extremely easy. There are very few rare situations where a barb really needs a full 45k hp to survive, if any. So once you've reached a hp total that is sufficient for the game, why wouldn't you opt for extremely high 1v1 damage on top?
Possibly bad aps barbs give the build a bad name (10k buffed budget aps builds who have neglected getting high refines before their claws and die in fcc), but a skilled aps barb is usually far more useful than a regular sage punching bag.
And besides, where's the fun in sticking with the norm? It's a game, a little variety can be a lot of fun.0 -
welp, my barb is tank build and i can hold aggro from any class out there unless the person demon sparks. if the person demon sparks they want the aggro anyway so its no biggie.....if they demon spark and die from the aggro they deserve to die....i just point and laugh
as far as the comments about PvP, I dont give a flying burrito bout that, it matters not
Barbarian(Barber)=104
Cleric(MysticFrost)=104
BM(TooCold)=104
Seeker(TiltedKilt)=104
Assassin(Spongeworthy)=104
Veno(UnZipped)=1030 -
unceuncerave wrote: »I rofled at that. Archers using claws/fists are a disgrace to their class as well.
not if you take into account that archers can take agro from the tank too, so if ya dont want an archer take agro from the tank then the best option for em is to use fist/claw to reduce their dmg or to handle close range type mobs. some mobs tht are physical tht are close range cant be knocked back.Barber - Heavens Tear wrote: »welp, my barb is tank build and i can hold aggro from any class out there unless the person demon sparks. if the person demon sparks they want the aggro anyway so its no biggie.....if they demon spark and die from the aggro they deserve to die....i just point and laugh
as far as the comments about PvP, I dont give a flying burrito bout that, it matters not
yea if i was tankin and then a snot nosed 5.0aps user takes agro from me, id rather let em die anyway since they might not knw how to tank.The Sure Shot that Flies Straight
Tiduswarrior Demon 101 (Main), Vanflyheight 100 (Demon RB2), SasukeZx 95 (Demon), Leobeastking 90s (Sage), Swiftterror 80s, AquaStriker 99 (Sage)
2nd Acc: BlademageX 88, RazorFalcon 89, RavenwingZ 79, Veilpor 73, TidalLight 30, SythrilZ 64, Stormthril 640 -
Barber - Heavens Tear wrote: »welp, my barb is tank build and i can hold aggro from any class out there unless the person demon sparks. if the person demon sparks they want the aggro anyway so its no biggie...
But that's where this trend started about barbs not being wanted anymore, hasn't it ?
If a squad knows a 5 aps Sin/Bm (particularly if high refined) can tank, then why bother taking a Vit Barb with them in the first place ?0 -
FCC 5.0 Claw Barb is awesome.. I have both a 101 demon vit and a 101 claw barb. Both can tank very well. However my claw barb can easily solo FCC . I do it often. I also have a 101 BM and my claw barb can do many things better than my BM, my BM can do things better than my claw barb. The Difference between all three is how you play them.
I'm a better vit barb because of the need to learn to use my barbs defense skills running the claw barb. You really learn to absorb, reflect, and reduce damage . You have to in order to tank. But a claw barb is not about being the tank. They can tank when they want to (i tank a lot, can't help it, its nature), but its about moving fast hitting hard and not being afraid to plow into a room . FF big room, pull, invoke, sunder, surf, Armageddon, swell, slam.. all should be dead, if not cat form, surf, frighten, [optional here depending: sunder, Armageddon, slam if ready, swell] . If your still in trouble..run in a circle. Your gonna win. +5 refine on the slayer poleaxe and your done after the first slam. Also remember Roar returns 100% of physical damage for 10 seconds. Comes in handy just after invoke if others are with you.. keeps them safe and does damage. The big room scenario i described above is claw barb solo.. no other toons in the room. If others are with you might make it to slam before the mobs are gone.
You can of course run into a group spark and kill them all in just a couple of seconds.
Did i mention that you now have a use for the barb standup anti stun skill. jog toward bishops. use the skill.. jog up to the bishop..say hello. spark, onslaught, claw, hit.. bishop will be gone in about 1 sec and his friends shortly after.
Make a great strength genie, i get 66% damage reduction from mine, invoke gives me 90% so its like adding 10 secs of additional protection if needed. Also mire + devour reduce the **** out of pdef, also mire + penetrate if devour not ready or option.
In tiger cycle demon spark, devour, standup, onslaught, claw, attack, mire, then cycle (since your standing now) demon spark, penetrate, onslaught, claw , attack, mire (if mire ready).
Harpy giving you trouble? Pesky mobs that run away? Well now just onslaught, bow, attack, windshield. not a problem for your trusty 60% crit bow. if you want more defense, since your not going anywhere, just gonna stand there and crit from a distance.. hit your solid shield. now you got 66% damage reduction to go with your 60% crit bow.
Its a beautiful thing to reduce pdef by 93% and demon spark and have 60% crit rate..
So whats the difference in barbs. One has more hp and does a lot less single target damage over the same amount of time. {Currently claw has 11.9k hp in tiger, and my vit has 16+k hp in tiger}. When fully sharded with vit stones they will both have more than enough hp and since the claw is only +4 and the tank is +5 you can see vit is not the big issue. having the +vit stat is what makes the hp barb tougher, its not just hp, its actually having vit stated. Claw has high evasion and yes i get missed a lot, but not to much. Im a barb, i wanna get hit so i gain chi.
Vit demon keeps aggro from sins, archer and wiz and is great for making ubber pulls. FCC is not an ubber pull. If you can't pull it on a claw barb then you need to hang up being a barb. Pulling all of PV chambers is an ubber pull. Pulling 300+ dragoons is an ubber pull. Getting beat up managing the pull in rebirth is an ubber pull.. FF anyone can pull . sin can pull, mystic can pull, etc.
Claw barb, FF of course no problem .
Delta is a pull and lots of damage and i would not want to do it on my claw barb. But a claw barb can do a lot of AOE DD, and remember with 60% crit rate and upto 93% pdef reduction claw barbs will make mince meat out of your target boss.
Which is better.. Neither they are each fun to play and can do different things. That is what is wrong with this game.. people think the same. I remember when the fist bm was not the way to go.. it was all axe. LOL now. Demon barbs were no good.. LOL now.. Demon barbs hold hella aggro aps or not.. they both do it great.
So until you build both and play them and gear them from the bottom up.. talk to the hand. If you have not played them then don't comment. My claw barb started a claw barb build at lvl 1. 3str 2dex all the way up. Adjust a little here and there between dex and str to get the crits but keep it 3str 2dex. keep str and dex your theme.. HP is from refines and shards and gear. Currently my claw has 329 str and 260 dex. The higher dex comes from tomes, armor, and of course i run Seal of Eternal Solitude Magic Rings. Those give you 3 percent crit, dex + 6-8 , vit + 6-8, 100 phycial attack, 100 magical attack, and refine it to get the elemental resistance you lose from running the Asura belt and necklace. Why?? when you pull a hall of elemental you will understand. You will be critical almost constant once you get your skills. (tokens and libraian 1k stream. 4950 token for all advanced skills [330 advanced mystical page]) bestial onslaught, poison fang, str titans. Note: str titans 1 minute crit buff cancels the onslaught 35% crit buff. So after titans is cast you got 1 minute to wait before you can achieve ubber crit status. you will figure it out. Both have there use. In delta.. cast it to give everyone a 5% crit boost for the sins, bms, doing aoe.
Also demons can give the squad chi. So buff em up so they can be as good as they can be when in delta.
Yea a crappy armor barb can do a great job.. its all in the skills. use them.
So enough already..
Every time i swing a claw its a critical hit ..so is my bow, and my poleaxe..
The claw barb is the funnest toon on this game and suggest you make one.. if anything it will make you a better barb.
Its a game.. also end game r9 this and r9 that.. lets be real . Be real with what you can afford. if your planning on being an ubber tw r20 +400 refine, more power to you. but the cost is a lot. Claw barb in tw? i don't know, but you can use it to help gear up your cata barb.
Out of all my toons; that claw barb is the funnest toon i have played since the server started.
Did i mention i can adjust the damage i do depending on how long i want to keep a target alive.
Did i mention my awesome bow. You know whats better than a barb.. A Barb with a Bow.. a crit bow..
Seriously try it.. its gets fun at 90 when you can get 2.22 aps and demon form for 100% damage in tiger. it gets wicked at 3.33, and farming in tiger when you crit like mad in tiger.. that's cool too. move from target to target fast and kill fast.. move fast, kill fast, its the claw barb way.
Current Target Realistic Build : http://www.pwcalc.com/7506cbcc11700711 . My crit will be 35% + 29% = 64%.
And my End build on this will be my end build http://www.pwcalc.com/6992379c1a9eb150 i find this to be realistic.
And for those who say nirvy claws maybe this. Depends if i thinks it realistic later.
http://www.pwcalc.com/5f693eabd95f6abc
All Builds are shown unsparked. Demon spark them then imagine what 65% crit will look like.
lupon 101 demon barb, KittyFister 101 claw barb, 101 bm, 100 bm, 101 cleric, 101 sin, 9x veno, 9x mystic, 8x veno, 7x mystic, seeker, archer yadda yadda yadda.. to much time not enough hands.0 -
Barber - Heavens Tear wrote: »welp, my barb is tank build and i can hold aggro from any class out there unless the person demon sparks. if the person demon sparks they want the aggro anyway so its no biggie.....if they demon spark and die from the aggro they deserve to die....i just point and laugh
as far as the comments about PvP, I dont give a flying burrito bout that, it matters not
as I like to point out, we can say we don't need a barb in any squad anymore, yeah a 5.0 can tank, a seeker can tank. How effective though?
Let me break it down into percentages, a sin/BM can only do half the tanking job, a seeker can do 3/4 of the tanking job. A barb?..... a barb if vit. build and played right can do 100% of the tanking job. If super lucky and your the barb, you will most likely in some squads be the last man standing on a boss fight. (charmed through emp tt3-2 when my squad died) This can also mean you saved a squad from a complete wipe.b:pleased If you succeed on this situation like I had you will be told good job barbie b:laugh .
Anyhow I can say the vit. barb is a way to go, if your gonna cata in TW. There may not be much as a vit. barb in PVE but take what I said above b:pleased .
Choose the route for your barb and have a blast.
Vit. sage barb with r9 gear and proud of itb:pleased0 -
Lhirikoh_WB - Sanctuary wrote: »as I like to point out, we can say we don't need a barb in any squad anymore, yeah a 5.0 can tank, a seeker can tank. How effective though?
Let me break it down into percentages, a sin/BM can only do half the tanking job, a seeker can do 3/4 of the tanking job. A barb?..... a barb if vit. build and played right can do 100% of the tanking job. If super lucky and your the barb, you will most likely in some squads be the last man standing on a boss fight. (charmed through emp tt3-2 when my squad died) This can also mean you saved a squad from a complete wipe.b:pleased If you succeed on this situation like I had you will be told good job barbie b:laugh .
Anyhow I can say the vit. barb is a way to go, if your gonna cata in TW. There may not be much as a vit. barb in PVE but take what I said above b:pleased .
Choose the route for your barb and have a blast.
Vit. sage barb with r9 gear and proud of itb:pleased
I'm sorry, but a well geared BM can tank just about anything in game (especially with sage BP). So I don't know where you came up with 50%. I started soloing FC at lvl97 on my BM...now at 100 with 5aps it's a breeze.
The most important thing is barbs are FUN to play....and most times easy to find a squad. Barbs are definitely a plus to almost any squad.lvl101 Legit archer...not 1 hyper used or multi-FC0
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