Sage V Demon as a barb?

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Comments

  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CeVil - Momaganon wrote: »
    before you speak ever again on this thread, go to http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php, and don't claim you have already went there, because what you said was the obvious proof you haven't.

    Doesn't mean **** if you don't hit your target, then you could have a 100% crit rate on your character screen, but have an effective 0% crit rate.

    Hint, I'm not a 'guy'. Just sayin, it makes you look... Kinda stupid. b:surrender
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Doesn't mean **** if you don't hit your target, then you could have a 100% crit rate on your character screen, but have an effective 0% crit rate.

    Hint, I'm not a 'guy'. Just sayin, it makes you look... Kinda stupid. b:surrender

    You said demon barbs has 5% more critical rate than sage.
    He said demon barbs has 35% more critical rate (he's probably thinking about demon onslaught proc).
    You come back with how critical rate doesn't mean **** if you can't hit your target.

    I'm thinking.. what does that have to do with his argument? Do sage barbs somehow have higher accuracy or something?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • CeVil - Momaganon
    CeVil - Momaganon Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Doesn't mean **** if you don't hit your target, then you could have a 100% crit rate on your character screen, but have an effective 0% crit rate.

    http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php

    Look until you understand
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You said demon barbs has 5% more critical rate than sage.
    He said demon barbs has 35% more critical rate (he's probably thinking about demon onslaught proc).
    You come back with how critical rate doesn't mean **** if you can't hit your target.

    I'm thinking.. what does that have to do with his argument? Do sage barbs somehow have higher accuracy or something?

    Nope. Means that Crit rate is somewhat pointless to bugger over.

    Crit rate is OMGEpic at 90%. My Archer and Sin have 40% crit rates, or close to it, and it's nice... But at 5.0, not 1.11.

    My barb misses a good chunk of the time if I try to Arma stuff, and I've got +Accuracy gear. If I was going to die if I didn't hit a crit on Arma, but Arma has a 20% hit rate to begin with, then you're not going to live, most likely.

    Unless, of course, this moron who keeps linking pwdatabase thinks that APS barbs are the be-all, end-all of this game.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear
    Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My barb misses a good chunk of the time if I try to Arma stuff, and I've got +Accuracy gear. If I was going to die if I didn't hit a crit on Arma, but Arma has a 20% hit rate to begin with, then you're not going to live, most likely.

    I believe you are talking about pvping LA classes or BMs.... because for pve, it very hard to miss a mob :/

    Then, it would be common sense to use demon onslaught every time before you drop an arma on someone's head. Reduced evasion and 50%+ crit rate is just a pure win combination with arma... D:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nope. Means that Crit rate is somewhat pointless to bugger over.

    Crit rate is OMGEpic at 90%. My Archer and Sin have 40% crit rates, or close to it, and it's nice... But at 5.0, not 1.11.

    My barb misses a good chunk of the time if I try to Arma stuff, and I've got +Accuracy gear. If I was going to die if I didn't hit a crit on Arma, but Arma has a 20% hit rate to begin with, then you're not going to live, most likely.

    Unless, of course, this moron who keeps linking pwdatabase thinks that APS barbs are the be-all, end-all of this game.

    You must be joking.. One of the most persuasive traits that made me choose demon was the high crit rate when onslaught procs. Right now I'm at 24% crit rate + 35% increase which means I have 6 seconds of having 59% chance to crit with onslaught proc and that skill is spammable at 8 sec. CD. If you're missing on Arma, I suggest you start using BB. If you're missing on mobs.. Then I really have nothing else to say.
    As an APS barbs, I have 7.5k accuracy with BB. No trouble whatsoever with missing.
    Regular barbs have 3.5k ish accuracy with BB which is good enough for high dex classes such as sins and archers. Now imagine critting every other hit after onslaught.. even better, devour -> onslaught -> mire -> arma. more than 50% chance of hitting a crit.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • CeVil - Momaganon
    CeVil - Momaganon Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Unless, of course, this moron who keeps linking pwdatabase thinks that APS barbs are the be-all, end-all of this game.
    You stupid brat girl, I link it because you can't bother your pathetic head by reading the truth you fail to realise. b:bye
    I'm sorry but you fail at barb, go play something else, brat girl
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    CeVil - Momaganon wrote: »
    You stupid brat girl, I link it because you can't bother your pathetic head by reading the truth you fail to realise. b:bye
    I'm sorry but you fail at barb, go play something else, brat girl

    She plays everything else with equal 'aptitude'.

    Don't bother arguing with her, either she doesn't bother reading the post or she just doesn't comprehend. Hence when you say "crit rate" she heard accuracy and her brilliant response was "I'm a girl". Apparently demon barbs have something to do with kitchen work.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • BloodTyrant - Raging Tide
    BloodTyrant - Raging Tide Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nope. Means that Crit rate is somewhat pointless to bugger over.

    Crit rate is OMGEpic at 90%. My Archer and Sin have 40% crit rates, or close to it, and it's nice... But at 5.0, not 1.11.

    My barb misses a good chunk of the time if I try to Arma stuff, and I've got +Accuracy gear. If I was going to die if I didn't hit a crit on Arma, but Arma has a 20% hit rate to begin with, then you're not going to live, most likely.

    Unless, of course, this moron who keeps linking pwdatabase thinks that APS barbs are the be-all, end-all of this game.

    the second one is the right one for her!
  • Wild_Garruk - Harshlands
    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I know this has nothing to do with the topic but damn... Mortal Kombat in real life b:dirty

    http://www.memecenter.com/fun/91930/Perfect-Mileena-Cosplay
  • Wild_Garruk - Harshlands
    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    question how much dex does a lvl 100 demon barb should have? like 100 or something like that for the crit?
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands wrote: »
    question how much dex does a lvl 100 demon barb should have? like 100 or something like that for the crit?

    Uhh, it depends?

    If you are a clawbarb, then 200.

    If you are a pure str or vit build, 60-80, or in there somewhere.

    There's also a dex build, you'd have ~250-300 dex, depending on what gear you have. I have never done a Dex build, so I'm not entirely sure.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Apparently demon barbs have something to do with kitchen work.

    Hey now. That's a bit harsh. b:surrender

    Tangling Mire gives 100% accuracy on all mobs affected anyway. So for PvE, you can always make sure your Demon Sunder or Demon Onslaught + Demon Arma combo hits all mobs in range. Also crit rate is not pointless... Even if you miss with Demon Onslaught you can now follow it up with Mighty Swing and Demon Stomp (both of which will not miss) and have upwards of 50% or more crit compared to 15% giving you a much better chance at finishing your opponent with crits or zerk crits. I'm also pretty sure the +35% crit is applied to the skill itself (just like Sunder) giving an already powerful skill a chance to be that much more powerful.

    Also, Demon Blood Bath gives more accuracy than Sage... so demon barbs have the accuracy advantage anyway, if BB is on.

    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands wrote: »
    question how much dex does a lvl 100 demon barb should have? like 100 or something like that for the crit?

    My Sage sortof VIT build barb has about 100 and it's nice. If you get a good amount of crit and accuracy from gear, then you could probably stay around 60-80 as others have suggested.

    Demon Axe and Hammer adds 2%, Titans gives 5% for a minute, and Shapeshift will add 2% when in tiger form. Then there's Demon Onslaught and Sunder... You could probably stay around 60 dex and rely on those skills to beef up your crit rate unless you are worried about accuracy or can't afford them.
  • Wild_Garruk - Harshlands
    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    This is my gear so far any suggestions?

    http://pwcalc.com/78239031c1816fdf

    Im goin only giving vit stones to my sage barb...
  • BloodTyrant - Raging Tide
    BloodTyrant - Raging Tide Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands wrote: »
    This is my gear so far any suggestions?

    http://pwcalc.com/78239031c1816fdf

    Im goin only giving vit stones to my sage barb...

    everything +7 at least (rings not needed) maybe you should aim for some JoSD, and the best amber you can afford on weap, less than 1k accuracy sucks for barbs.
  • Precept - Lost City
    Precept - Lost City Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Set up a shop buying G7 ambers for 10k a piece in Raging Tide, 750x10000 = 7.5m for a G11 amber in your wep. I suggest at least place holder gems in the other half of your armor.

    Regarding the demon r sux argument that went on before: My barb, with bloodbath on, has 3.4k accuracy. I don't miss very often, so that 35% crit is:

    A. Spammable, and able to be maintained. So with 54 dex green I have 49% crit.
    B. On a skill that decreases the targets evasion.
    C. Able to be used in tandem with a demon barb's two 100% accurate standing skills,as if that's really an argument.
    D. If a demon barb misses all the time they'd still be doing better with it, since it increases their odds to zerk crit on a successful hit to ~15-18%

    That aside, the difference between sage and demon comes down to MOSTLY play style. Sage is reliable and tanky, if need be, while demon is fast paced high damage output.

    InB4 hurrhurr sage haf moar pattack addz. <--(Sage) 135% more weapon damage @ 2k PAttack on weapon = ~4.7k. Congrats, having 50% crit is an effective increase in damage by a factor of 50%; that increase is based AFTER the 115% weapon damage from mastery+buff. That means there's an overall damage potential of 172% from your passive and buff alone, meaning @2k PAttack on weapon = ~5.4k. (Didn't use a calculator, approximate values are sufficient for my point.)
  • Wild_Garruk - Harshlands
    Wild_Garruk - Harshlands Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I still want to see a fight of a demon and a sage barb that would be awesome some one make a vid now b:angryb:angryb:angry
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    BloodTyrant - Raging Tide wrote: »

    everything +7 at least (rings not needed) maybe you should aim for some JoSD, and the best amber you can afford on weap, less than 1k accuracy sucks for barbs.


    i have like 600 acc my str build do fine damage like crith every time + a bit more spike damage so accuricy is non existent for barb.

    learn to use ur 100% accuricy skills

    we are not loosy bm we are barbs we dont need acc

    love it when ur crith are lower then my minimum hits with axes
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    the only way i could decide between demon and sage was looking at the 3 skills i loved best in their demon or sage form. it came down to me liking the sage skills more
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »
    i have like 600 acc my str build do fine damage like crith every time + a bit more spike damage so accuricy is non existent for barb.

    learn to use ur 100% accuricy skills

    we are not loosy bm we are barbs we dont need acc

    love it when ur crith are lower then my minimum hits with axes

    in my experiences, each hit matters. i wear a misty forest ring for the accuracy, i get just over 1k with it.. Blood bath gives me 2.2k

    i dont need blood bath, ever, unless i am specifically trying to kill a Dex based player
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    the only way i could decide between demon and sage was looking at the 3 skills i loved best in their demon or sage form. it came down to me liking the sage skills more

    What about those times when an otherwise useless skill becomes useful under one of the paths? -Good example is Sage Soul Degeneration for Venomancers.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    in my experiences, each hit matters. i wear a misty forest ring for the accuracy, i get just over 1k with it.. Blood bath gives me 2.2k

    i dont need blood bath, ever, unless i am specifically trying to kill a Dex based player


    dex only usefull for claw and a small mesure for crith if you cant afford good crith based rings

    while str deside the damage of each hits low str mean need crith to make thise hits matter high str mean not really on criths cos you do as much as if you was critting and more when your crith connects.

    and again we barb have 100% acc hits no need dex
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »
    dex only usefull for claw and a small mesure for crith if you cant afford good crith based rings

    while str deside the damage of each hits low str mean need crith to make thise hits matter high str mean not really on criths cos you do as much as if you was critting and more when your crith connects.

    and again we barb have 100% acc hits no need dex

    Your post makes my head hurt. >_>

    1) It's crit, not crith. Crit is short for critical, there's no h in it. b:surrender
    2) Aside from being really hard to understand, like the rest of your posts, is fundamentally wrong.
    3) 100% accuracy skills or not, the biggest spike damage AOE we have is NOT 100% accuracy.
    4) I really, really like getting Zerk Crits on Arma. They do massive damage, though I have only done one TW on my barb and don't PK yet.
    5) Just because you think that Dex/APS based Barb builds are fail doesn't mean they are fail. I put 80 something dex in on mine for Gorenox Vanities, i didn't lose any HP because I was PURE Str before that, and even at 2.86 APS, they build chi on bosses a hell of a lot faster than, say, spamming 100% hit skills and using Bestial Rage (which, on some bosses, results in a net loss of chi, especially when using low APS axes).
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • NescauBall - Archosaur
    NescauBall - Archosaur Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    As to the Sage V demon debate.

    I have both and I love both equally. However I use demon to PK and sage to TW. I dont find sage to be good with killing people, but I can pull cata so well on it....

    As to people saying demon barbs can pull equally well, uhmm, they can be good, but sage will always shine a bit more. sage haves some little perks like sage roar reducing enemy magic attack (awesome to use on mages). 10% extra HP in tiger form, 40% extra physical defence when in tiger form (wich is useful when you use all magic defence stuff)
    Sage bestial rage lasts forever. Sage Tiger form has 2 seconds cooldown against demon 3 seconds (when you need to switch to human and rebuff HP buff you go back to tiger faster, trust me, thats awesome)

    The only skill I would like a lot more as demon to tank people is demon frighten. The 12 meters aoe chance to stun is awesome.

    Also:
    Sage "Ultimate" catapult build: http://pwcalc.com/c3cbf0bbaed61c65
    Demon "Ultimate" catapult build: http://pwcalc.com/3b86086d893d4efe

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