Fists: Gorenox Vanity Vs Buddha: Peace

5.0 aps with Sacrificial Strike on a class that can't have blood paint = self-charm-r@pe...

5aps + SS/GoF on any class other than sin wouldn't work to begin with. Even sins need high refines just to balance their's out and that's already with 30 attack levels in their weapon.

GV also has a Attack boost proc so along wit hthe free heal you don't lose that much. Also , GV has 0.05 interval which you can use to create alternate ornament-tome combos

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

High refines = more hp = more per proc = worse. At least sound semi-smart and say high refined ornaments.

I have Zerk fists on my BM. I have a Zerk axe I share between my BM and my Barb.

This is spot on, I actually reduced my Barb's HP to try and even break even on Zerk's cost. My BM, even demon sparked, has some issues with Zerk as it is. Both characters have 15k HP buffed.

Zerk AOE is fine if you hit a few mobs or other players at the same time, if you have level 1-Demon BP. Sage helps a ton. But without it, I can actually zerk myself to death right through a charm at 4.0 sparked using my Zerk fists.

IF you're gonna use Zerk fists and you could get BP, then you need to have less HP and more attack.

If you want to know what I did with my Archer...

I'm 5.0 base Sage with GV's. GV's will sometimes proc enough to be BP, other times, I have to use pots to survive (gasp!). My Archer has 10k HP unbuffed, so Zerk would take so much HP so fast, I'd end up charm-**** myself because pots couldn't keep up.

You'd be laughed at if you put a +10 refine on a TT90 weapon anyway.

If you're seriously going to Claw Archer......

Roll Sage (they can get 5.0 unsparked and get 25% damage reduction sparking) and Make sure you get Claws (Fists can't get the 5% hp recovery.)

Note: Blood Revenge(It puts it as Blood Defect) has a higher chance to heal 5% not heal 10% as well as a pattack+ proc.

http://pwcalc.com/5f1366deff8bc382

But its cheaper / more cost effective / useful to make a sin that can use pretty much the same damn gear as you. and can do more. then be a stupid aps archer.

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

5aps + SS/GoF on any class other than sin wouldn't work to begin with. Even sins need high refines just to balance their's out and that's already with 30 attack levels in their weapon.

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

High refines = more hp = more per proc = worse. At least sound semi-smart and say high refined ornaments.

i think he means higher refines on weapon...

Heh. Well for one Demon has higher 5.0 dps because of the 4% extra crit they receive from wing blessing, mastery, and wearing natural elven wings (those all effect 5.0 damage). This is easily more benefit than the 10% extra blazing damage sage has. Demon also allows you to have a lot more gear flexibility. I don't even think 5.0 sages can get the 4/6 R9 bonus for +10 more attack levels. Also you don't really even need to restat dex any more now that there are ring engravings.

BP is nice but you can always just take that coin you would waste on a lame fish class and invest it on better gear for your archer. With better gear you don't need BP and your archer is way stronger than before. The dozens of rank 9 archers on my server have way better armor than any of the sins since archer is a TW class while a sin is just pve.

unceuncerave wrote: »

You're seriously telling me you'd freely give up 25-50 dex into strength to wield claws and can't even use BP? that 25-50 Dex can be the difference between getting over 450 Dex or not for most archers. (That's another Damage multiplier for PVP reasons.)

Culti is purely play style based. Both Hell and Heaven have their perks and disadvantages. For sake of pure claw Sage > Demon since aps is already 5. and 500% weapon damage either way. If i have to bother explaining further then you might be a bit thick headed.

No basing your cult decision on autoattack farming capability is stupid. No archer would go pure claw either...the **** are you smoking.

http://pwcalc.com/d0324111d834a983


Bonus attack proc = more power , 5aps , similar crit , more HP more dex , better ornaments( can switch for any combination even Sky demon pearl which gives extra STR and Guardian of thundershock) , cheaper weapon and ring , free healing



not that bright with gear are we ?

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/d0324111d834a983


Bonus attack proc = more power , 5aps , similar crit , more HP more dex , better ornaments( can switch for any combination even Sky demon pearl which gives extra STR and Guardian of thundershock) , cheaper weapon and ring , free healing



not that bright with gear are we ?

unceuncerave wrote: »

So aside from a glitch from Elven wings that only demon get. demon gets 2% more crit.
Your Typical archer cant affoard r9 so that point is situational let alone decent ring engravings.

Here is your typical APS archer gear(From what ive seen)
http://pwcalc.com/9c746ff614bfabc0 (Still short 450 by 11 dex. Yes if dex on both ring engravings itll exceed 450 or using band of heaven jail but then your wasting other things you could have in pvp such as accuracy and crit if you swapped rings.)

I guess personal preference. You can make that money back and more as a sin and faster then you ever could profit with the archer alone.

More power to you. Next ill see archers clawing in PvP....

Not that literate are we?
I was showing you what your typical archer has gear wise (no refines and shards)

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Perhaps Im biased a bit since I started off with a well geared archer with high survival before I had a claw. I don't really know about how much +4 or whatever archers struggle.

At higher gear levels the difference between classes in 5.0 isn't that noticeable but that probably won't carry over to lower gear.

Point proven. Most completely endgame geared players WONT notice. But try to think of it from a standpoint of your typical player. (The 90% of PWI).

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the ring isn't the problem , the weapon is . noone told others to use Deicides , clever archers use clever weapons

I dont know about you, but Missing in PvP is a BAD thing. and that 50% Accuracy helps alot. Once you swap out that ring you lose 100% damage (multiplier per 150 value) on your bow.
No you are right no1 did tell archers to use it. However they think they are BMs/Sins and use it anyways. I have a sin to farm with, i make way more money(being able to kill stuff solo my archer couldnt). And archer is left purely for PVP using rank gear and not sacrificing Dex into silly weapons. BTW proc doesn't stack with spark, so that's kinda a waste. Doesn't seem so clever to me.

unceuncerave wrote: »

So aside from a glitch from Elven wings that only demon get. demon gets 2% more crit.
Your Typical archer cant affoard r9 so that point is situational let alone decent ring engravings.

Here is your typical APS archer gear(From what ive seen)
http://pwcalc.com/9c746ff614bfabc0 (Still short 450 by 11 dex. Yes if dex on both ring engravings itll exceed 450 or using band of heaven jail but then your wasting other things you could have in pvp such as accuracy and crit if you swapped rings.)

I don't see what all this has to do with rolling sage...

GV better..

GV is in the midle i think pvp n pve.. but if u wanna build for pve.. fist 100 is much better than deicide..