Tank build barb potential at end game?

MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear
MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear Posts: 204 Arc User
edited May 2012 in General Discussion
I was wondering, if very hypothetically, I decide to start my barb after this BM, is it okay to leave my barb as a tank barb?

Everyone has been telling me about going claw build, even the barbs I run with for FF now are claw builds.

I kinda felt like being a cata barb or something in TW. But is that the only thing a tank build barb is good for at endgame?
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Post edited by MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    There's also Rebirth.
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  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    GO VIT BARB

    I know a few VERY few claw barbs that are actually good barbs (and that's cause they cs and put big $ into the build) most aps barbs suck badly, they can't do full pulls, they can't dd as good as aps bms or even aps archers.

    Ever get an aps barb in warsong snake yeah barb with 12k hp gets 1 shot by snake (not to mention full delta pulls)

    I'm not saying you can't go aps, but if you do when you need to be a barb you will end up falling short and people hating you for it unless you put ALOT of work into the build

    I'm also not saying you have to have 40k+ hp to be a good barb. But a friend of mine made a barb, put 0 real dollars into it (he just got to 100 this past month) and he has I think 22k hp buffed and he doesn't even have full tt99 yet. So it's not hard to make a good tank barb and the only thing that it's hard to get squads for is nirvana. (despite popular believe that no one needs barbs for TT, fc or bhs there are lots of people always asking for barbs at least on my server)

    Basicly you have a bm already, it is cheaper (and smarter) for you to make your bm aps (2 sets of gear if you aren't aps on it already) and have your barb for barb things (and share gear too if you use the same account with account stash)
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    When you have enough money, you can be anything. The most vit a full vit build is going to add is about 2k-3k hp, depending on weapon.
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Tank end game barb dont exist anymore, no offense to barbs but there's no barb anymore able to hold aggro, i dont blame them the aps, R8-R9 unbalanced some class, i though with new skill expension they will give a real aggro skill to the barb but look like they dont.
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  • NecroTwist - Sanctuary
    NecroTwist - Sanctuary Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    idk, ive been pretty successful in holding most agro thats not one on one. the idea is to get sunder and a few other moves in first before all the other impatient DD start attacking. Barbs would be far more useful if everyone wouldnt attack at the sight of mobs. personally ive only met one aps barb that wasnt a fail, but even then he could not pull like i could.

    The reason vit barbs are dying out is solely because everyone else doesnt understand how the squad dynamics work with a vit barb and just attack all out the instant the mobs poke up near them. ive met bm's that are too impatient and they HF only 1/3 of the mobs because instead of letting me group them together, they HF as the first mob runs by.

    ps to be a cata barb in a major faction now (at least on sanctuary server) requires r9+10 or massive amounts of vit stones. i am r9+5 with 24k hp and still get slammed in TW like i was lvl 60 or something, its ridiculous.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    That's because endgame PvE no longer needs a dedicated tank class.

    The only thing that an endgame barb could probably have been useful for would have been goon glitch. When 500 goons are coming you'd probably want a barb to hold them together...

    Come to think of it, the whole irony of the goon glitch is that it was the only endgame activity that every class could enjoy and be challenged equally. It's really sad that such an activity had to be a glitch and that the game never came out with anything that was as good.
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  • Elanxu - Dreamweaver
    Elanxu - Dreamweaver Posts: 521 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I was wondering, if very hypothetically, I decide to start my barb after this BM, is it okay to leave my barb as a tank barb?

    Everyone has been telling me about going claw build, even the barbs I run with for FF now are claw builds.

    I kinda felt like being a cata barb or something in TW. But is that the only thing a tank build barb is good for at endgame?

    tank barb is very useful. lots of bosses that other classes cant survive need a tank barb, such as harpy wraith, world bosses, etc (not saying its impossible for a claw barb or anyone else to tank, but its just more reasonable to have a higher hp person try to tank, and not saying that barbs can hold aggro, but saying that when the 5.0 aps sin dies, the barb will not). RB delta is also very good for a tank barb, since claw barbs cant aoe better, and have low hp.

    in my opinion, tank barb is the way to go. if you pk later on, arma can hit extremely high. a r9+12 barb can pretty much 1 hit anyone with an arma (besides other vit barbs), and is a very dangerous opponent in the pk world. like mentioned earlier, vit barbs are a lot better cata barbs too

    and also, tank barbs are so much more respected, since it is in fact harder to find nirvy squads, and much of endgame revolves around nirvy. but those who choose to stay high hp barb are a lot more prestigious and i personally say, VIT BARB FTW.
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  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Tank end game barb dont exist anymore, no offense to barbs but there's no barb anymore able to hold aggro, i dont blame them the aps, R8-R9 unbalanced some class, i though with new skill expension they will give a real aggro skill to the barb but look like they dont.

    wrong, I know barbs that can keep agro from r9 +12 sins just fine. My sin isn't r9, nirvana +10 but sage I deal a heck of a lot of damage. There is a huge difference between good barbs and bad barbs and unfortunately aps have lead to the good barbs giving up and the bad barbs being dead weight in squads.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    There have been maybe one or two barbs I've played with who have bounced agro between us (and I'm not talking about the beginning where the barb charges in first). I'm a R9+12 4aps sin with 79 base attack levels, so it's not 100% true that barbs can't take agro from r9+12 sins.

    It's more like 99%.
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  • dog10250
    dog10250 Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I was wondering, if very hypothetically, I decide to start my barb after this BM, is it okay to leave my barb as a tank barb?

    Everyone has been telling me about going claw build, even the barbs I run with for FF now are claw builds.

    I kinda felt like being a cata barb or something in TW. But is that the only thing a tank build barb is good for at endgame?

    Go claw build.

    My barb friend 5aps +10 Regicides can DD as strong as a +10 sin 5aps AND manages to hold aggro at the same time in tiger form for delta and other areas(He's only got 17k hp max btw). He is a MUCH better barb then pure tank barbs cause he holds aggro a lot during all boss battles with he's perma spark 5aps aggro where pure tank barbs fail completely to a +5 3.33aps sin only spamming flesh realm. Sad ain't it? And yes the only thing your barb will be good for infact is TW. which is like 3 hours max and then hes purely useless again until next TW. He won't be all round and only other use is a HP and Phys Damage-buff station making it a useless endgame barb ultimately.

    P.S. No pure tank barbs for deltas aren't a huge advantage, I've seen 38k HP barbs with 5aps(+12 all) and they kick so much butt it's incredible. Only good thing about pure tank barbs is that you can achieve 45k/50k HP. That's it.

    So the decision is yours...do you want a 38k HP barb w/ 5aps who's useful anywhere or a 50k HP barb who can't hold aggro and only good for a delta and TW?
  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    dog10250 wrote: »
    Go claw build.

    My barb friend 5aps +10 Regicides can DD as strong as a +10 sin 5aps AND manages to hold aggro at the same time in tiger form for delta and other areas(He's only got 17k hp max btw). He is a MUCH better barb then pure tank barbs cause he holds aggro a lot during all boss battles with he's perma spark 5aps aggro where pure tank barbs fail completely to a +5 3.33aps sin only spamming flesh realm. Sad ain't it? And yes the only thing your barb will be good for infact is TW. which is like 3 hours max and then hes purely useless again until next TW. He won't be all round and only other use is a HP and Phys Damage-buff station making it a useless endgame barb ultimately.

    P.S. No pure tank barbs for deltas aren't a huge advantage, I've seen 38k HP barbs with 5aps(+12 all) and they kick so much butt it's incredible. Only good thing about pure tank barbs is that you can achieve 45k/50k HP. That's it.

    So the decision is yours...do you want a 38k HP barb w/ 5aps who's useful anywhere or a 50k HP barb who can't hold aggro and only good for a delta and TW?

    What you describe as a good claw barb, +12 gears 5 aps base is one that takes about $1000 to make not exactly easy or common. As for your friend holding agro against a 5 aps +10 sin I call bs. I have NEVER had a aps barb, even one with g15 nirvana +12s take agro from me. Now I've seen claw barbs take agro from sins standing there not doing anything or sins with fail gear. Claw barbs can't deal as much damage as claw bms so why make one for DD.

    Hell my cleric steals agro from claw barbs without even sparking
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  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    dog10250 wrote: »
    Go claw build.

    My barb friend 5aps +10 Regicides can DD as strong as a +10 sin 5aps AND manages to hold aggro at the same time in tiger form for delta and other areas(He's only got 17k hp max btw). He is a MUCH better barb then pure tank barbs cause he holds aggro a lot during all boss battles with he's perma spark 5aps aggro where pure tank barbs fail completely to a +5 3.33aps sin only spamming flesh realm. Sad ain't it? And yes the only thing your barb will be good for infact is TW. which is like 3 hours max and then hes purely useless again until next TW. He won't be all round and only other use is a HP and Phys Damage-buff station making it a useless endgame barb ultimately.

    P.S. No pure tank barbs for deltas aren't a huge advantage, I've seen 38k HP barbs with 5aps(+12 all) and they kick so much butt it's incredible. Only good thing about pure tank barbs is that you can achieve 45k/50k HP. That's it.

    So the decision is yours...do you want a 38k HP barb w/ 5aps who's useful anywhere or a 50k HP barb who can't hold aggro and only good for a delta and TW?

    Delta? Barb are even needed for delta even spawn. This is mainly about TW, so **** aggro.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    General Rule:

    1. If it's an alt go claw
    2. If it's not used in TW or PK go claw
    3. If you can afford +7 or higher refine go claw
    4. No one said you can't restat back to VIT (don't know why you would though)
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    dog10250 wrote: »

    So the decision is yours...do you want a 38k HP barb w/ 5aps who's useful anywhere or a 50k HP barb who can't hold aggro and only good for a delta and TW?

    Just to clarify ladies:
    ...The difference between claw build and vit build is not 12k hp.
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  • dog10250
    dog10250 Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Just to clarify ladies:
    ...The difference between claw build and vit build is not 12k hp.

    That was just an estimate. Highest I seen sage pure tank barb(sage true form) was 44k hp. But I know it's possible to reach higher depending on what endgame gear you choose.
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Depends on what you want a barb for... I love the barb class, but like being a generalist, so I really enjoy the fist/claw build. It's definitely not for everyone though.

    If you just want to log in and pull Cata, I'd say just go with a VIT build, since it costs less to achieve high amounts of HP. Like ZoracGallant said (at least on RT), a lot of people look for Barbs for just about everything, so finding squads for PvE things shouldn't be hard. People appreciate the buffs at the very least.

    If you have APS gear on your BM and can trade and/or stash it to your barb, then you could give both builds a shot if you can afford to re-stat a couple of times. I'd say try to have level 11 Poison Fang and at least 16k HP buffed in tiger for a claw build. And a claw barb can still be a tank barb, especially in the PvE sense. You don't need 20k+ HP to pull and tank full Delta SP, but that's not to say a claw barb can't have more than that, especially if you can share gear that you already plan on refining highly for your BM.
  • Anionic - Heavens Tear
    Anionic - Heavens Tear Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    dog10250 wrote: »
    Go claw build.

    My barb friend 5aps +10 Regicides can DD as strong as a +10 sin 5aps AND manages to hold aggro at the same time in tiger form for delta and other areas(He's only got 17k hp max btw). He is a MUCH better barb then pure tank barbs cause he holds aggro a lot during all boss battles with he's perma spark 5aps aggro where pure tank barbs fail completely to a +5 3.33aps sin only spamming flesh realm. Sad ain't it? And yes the only thing your barb will be good for infact is TW. which is like 3 hours max and then hes purely useless again until next TW. He won't be all round and only other use is a HP and Phys Damage-buff station making it a useless endgame barb ultimately.

    P.S. No pure tank barbs for deltas aren't a huge advantage, I've seen 38k HP barbs with 5aps(+12 all) and they kick so much butt it's incredible. Only good thing about pure tank barbs is that you can achieve 45k/50k HP. That's it.

    So the decision is yours...do you want a 38k HP barb w/ 5aps who's useful anywhere or a 50k HP barb who can't hold aggro and only good for a delta and TW?

    I looked through your posts to see if you were someone i knew. Cause I fit the description of your friend, but from what i see you're on DW. I'm 5aps +10 regicides 17.7k hp. Never have a problem on pulls as long as i have been there before, and know what to expect. I hold agro off most sins pretty well, sometimes i'll be in squad with one that can keep it from me. Usually i lose agro while i PA, then get it back a couple seconds after onslaught/aps. It's much easier to hold agro from BM's as they typically do the same as me (spark, skill, skill, atk)

    I'm not saying to go either way MsDom, I really enjoy my claw barb, it's like being on my sin and not getting hurt as bad. However i did enjoy being a full vit barb til lvl 99, but my whole plan was to go claw when i created my barb.
  • _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver
    _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 753 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    My 5 aps Barb (Soon):
    http://pwcalc.com/3de2e0c5e89c85ee
    The dmg difference is not much.

    I use acc stash my gear from BM.
    Go 5 aps! b:cute
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  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I can't understand this thread tbh. Vit build sage is so utterly useless in anything but pulling cata. Aggro skills barbs got aren't good enough and thus reducing your dmg over mostly irrelevant extra hp is just stupid.

    I am mostly vit build as I came back from one hiatus to remember I had given my claws away and friend needed cata barb for his faction. But I've regretted that decision as even as demon I really can't hold Aggro as R8 +6. My 2.5/3.33 aps wifey - I can't really keep Aggro from her 'cept on lvl 150 bosses a bit. And even on those situations I can't sustain it for long due low chi gain.

    Vit build barbs are no better skill wise than claw barbs. Average players might see more good vit barbs due how they aren't in high end squads like ther claw brethren. Only claws that run "average" squads are the ones that are a) on a mission or b) too bad to be in squads they should be gear wise.
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    dog10250 wrote: »
    Go claw build.

    My barb friend 5aps +10 Regicides can DD as strong as a +10 sin 5aps

    I really cant see how a a 5aps barb with g13's can dd as strong as a g13 5aps sin. Only way that could happen is if the Sin has poor or equal stats. There are a few reasons for this, mainly no claw mastery and the other a barb/bm can not get the str dmg multiplyer that a sin can get with dex. That comes from lower str req for daggers. Throw in wolf emblem and a full dot build the gap widens even more.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    edited April 2012
    Personally I would love to see the Claw (not fist) added to the gear lineup that works for barbs. It only makes sense from a class standpoint that barbs could use claws. This would be extremely helpful to the barb class for claw barbs holding aggro and would revive their class as the official tank in the game, no matter what the build.

    On the same note, I would love to see a magical claw for venomancers, and would like to see the fists limited to the BM class. Claws would be for the Untamed, and the other classes will just have to do with their appropriate class weapons. (No more Claw-Clerics >.<)

    It would ultimately destroy the game though because of the preconceived notions of the player base that pretty much states that if you aren't 5.0, you're fail.

    5.0 didn't destroy the game, the players did by being so narrow minded.
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  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Personally I would love to see the Claw (not fist) added to the gear lineup that works for barbs. It only makes sense from a class standpoint that barbs could use claws. This would be extremely helpful to the barb class for claw barbs holding aggro and would revive their class as the official tank in the game, no matter what the build.

    On the same note, I would love to see a magical claw for venomancers, and would like to see the fists limited to the BM class. Claws would be for the Untamed, and the other classes will just have to do with their appropriate class weapons. (No more Claw-Clerics >.<)

    It would ultimately destroy the game though because of the preconceived notions of the player base that pretty much states that if you aren't 5.0, you're fail.

    5.0 didn't destroy the game, the players did by being so narrow minded.


    why should i wana use fist or claw on my build its not his real weapon just a dumb mechanism so dont act like all of us are aps lower.

    this is ur idea alone not the barb comunity as a whole
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    they should sell claw and all aps pieces only on butique and once a month

    at least

    its win win
  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    they should sell claw and all aps pieces only on butique and once a month

    at least

    its win win

    b:laugh




    Don't give them ideas b:surrender
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I can't understand this thread tbh. Vit build sage is so utterly useless in anything but pulling cata. Aggro skills barbs got aren't good enough and thus reducing your dmg over mostly irrelevant extra hp is just stupid.

    I am mostly vit build as I came back from one hiatus to remember I had given my claws away and friend needed cata barb for his faction. But I've regretted that decision as even as demon I really can't hold Aggro as R8 +6. My 2.5/3.33 aps wifey - I can't really keep Aggro from her 'cept on lvl 150 bosses a bit. And even on those situations I can't sustain it for long due low chi gain.

    Vit build barbs are no better skill wise than claw barbs. Average players might see more good vit barbs due how they aren't in high end squads like ther claw brethren. Only claws that run "average" squads are the ones that are a) on a mission or b) too bad to be in squads they should be gear wise.

    My sage barb does more damage in 1 spark with my r9 axes then my +10 G13 claws (5.0 windshield). To bad the chi building sucks with axes. :D
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  • Baby_pho - Heavens Tear
    Baby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    its thread like this that barbs are extinct. if you got friends, they will take your barb to anything. if you are in a good faction that value you as a member, they will take you farming, tt, nirvy, trials, whatever it maybe. for me this game have always been about making friends not about aps. some people might think different. find yourself a good faction and you dont have to worry about geting into squads for anything.( ofc there are some sins and bms in my faction that does like to 3 man things but i dont hold it against them, since they need the money)
  • MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear
    MsDominatrix - Heavens Tear Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    its thread like this that barbs are extinct. if you got friends, they will take your barb to anything. if you are in a good faction that value you as a member, they will take you farming, tt, nirvy, trials, whatever it maybe. for me this game have always been about making friends not about aps. some people might think different. find yourself a good faction and you dont have to worry about geting into squads for anything.( ofc there are some sins and bms in my faction that does like to 3 man things but i dont hold it against them, since they need the money)

    Oh dear. Could you suggest me a faction? LOL. TBH I love my barb, but it was hard playing when squads start hating on you cause "you're just good for buffs". I'm quoting some players btw.

    Thank god for this BM.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Oh dear. Could you suggest me a faction? LOL. TBH I love my barb, but it was hard playing when squads start hating on you cause "you're just good for buffs". I'm quoting some players btw.

    Thank god for this BM.

    At the end of 2x my archer friend played his VIT barb full time in nirvy. We did runs faster then his +7 5.0 deicide archer. Debuffs and buffs make more of a difference for APS squads then most people care to comprehend.
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  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    They should raise the APS cap to 10 APS. My Archer would be pretty close to that with Deicides, I'm already 5.0 base with GV's. I'd reroll Demon just to be 10.0.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • n6rejsin
    n6rejsin Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    my baby barb is 96 now, but since lvl 93 he's had 18k hp. He's sage w/o his sage buffs yet b:cry
    He's 100% pure vit build... so much so I have to watch what he wears cause 1pt breaks him sometimes... anyway.. people laugh, mock, call him fail, till they actually see him in business then they are happy to see him. When others in GV or WS are dieing he's running around playing with the mobs/ boss's killing them slowly while everyone else regroups.
    He does not use a HP charm at all ( he would take two breaths and it would be gone b:bye ) but he does use a mp charm.
    I love him very much... why?, .. cause when all those fancy $$ sins / barbs fall on their face, lil or BareBear comes in and shows them how its really done.
    He's got 80 Gold gear mostly +4.. his only high end piece is his helm which is +8 ( xmas gift to myself )
    He's been able to solo frost for a LONG time... major repair bill, but he can do it...

    If you want things done yesterday, the no, he's not the right person...
    if you want things done safely and reliably then call him up you won't regret it..
    unless your stupid and fight him for tank, then I just let you and when you die, I go back to being the good tank I am and saving the party.

    thats my 3 cents worth ( inflation )