R9 or Dark Death Thorn (nirvana)
Lysiena - Dreamweaver
Posts: 11 Arc User
Assuming Thorn is -0.1, and everything is max refined and sharded equally. Does the R9 daggers' damage increase make up for the loss of aps, if you were 5 aps with tomb to begin with?
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Post edited by Lysiena - Dreamweaver on
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G15 = 205,384 dps sparked
R9 = 236,110 dps sparked
Note: I used demon spark, 2x Darflame Gems, +12 refines, and G15 stats = GoF, -0.05 int, +130 Max Atk. Why only -0.05 int? Because that gives 3.33 aps base when including all standard aps gear which gives 5 aps sparked.
Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjWJBqePFkradFhQUHROaFl2bExCVEJNbTltMExyZ1E#gid=00 -
R9 does more DPH
G15 does more DPS
Proofed serval times in this forum. But only with perfect stats on G15 (GoF, Int -0.05 and Max Phy Attack +130)
Other then that, R9 deals more damage but not THAT much.0 -
There really isn't much basis comparing G15 and R9 because you set no parameters for refines, damage multipliers, attack levels on the R9 build, shards, and most importantly what stats are on the G15. Also, saying -.1 interval on G15s would be lower dps than -.05 with another damage add since 5.0 is 5.0. Also, since G15s refine better than R9 it comes pretty close to the same dph at +12.
Typically... SS/GoF with -int and a damage add does within +/- 1% of R9. It doesn't need GoF specifically. It doesn't need max attack specifically.
The real benefits of G15 is 5 aps chi growth and sparkability, and the possibility that you can get 2 x -.05 and then change to a more defensive build.
The real benefit of R9 is GoF and the fact that your melee range and your skill range are equal so no stutter stepping after skills use to get back into range.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »There really isn't much basis comparing G15 and R9 because you set no parameters for refines, damage multipliers, attack levels on the R9 build, shards, and most importantly what stats are on the G15. Also, saying -.1 interval on G15s would be lower dps than -.05 with another damage add since 5.0 is 5.0. Also, since G15s refine better than R9 it comes pretty close to the same dph at +12.
Typically... SS/GoF with -int and a damage add does within +/- 1% of R9. It doesn't need GoF specifically. It doesn't need max attack specifically.
The real benefits of G15 is 5 aps chi growth and sparkability, and the possibility that you can get 2 x -.05 and then change to a more defensive build.
The real benefit of R9 is GoF and the fact that your melee range and your skill range are equal so no stutter stepping after skills use to get back into range.
Quick question on this, the range on r9 doesnt increase the range of ur skills?0 -
Lysiena - Dreamweaver wrote: »Assuming Thorn is -0.1, and everything is max refined and sharded equally. Does the R9 daggers' damage increase make up for the loss of aps, if you were 5 aps with tomb to begin with?
There are tons of threads about comparing damage between R9 and specific setups of G15. Comparing their damage output in advance is pretty useless actually : you won't know the damage output of G15 before you made them, in which case you won't go for R9 most probably. What you can say is that both do insane damage (leaving out G15s with horrible adds ofc).
Some reasons for R9 over G15 :
- Fixed stats and sockets
- Great dph, making it the "safest" weapon to have GoF on
- The range add is really great even if it doesn't sound that epic
Some reasons for G15 over R9 :
- Easier/cheaper way, you can get G13s without wasting to much coins, making progression easier. Farming raps is (psychologically) easier then just amassing a crapload of coins to buy gold.
- Option of -0.05 int
- Random adds allow to aim for more specific type of weapon (not wanting GoF/SS for instance) and a chance to roll something very rare (2x -0.05 int)Azizsixer - Raging Tide wrote: »Quick question on this, the range on r9 doesnt increase the range of ur skills?
Nope, the range of skills if set (unlike archer skills for instance that refer to the weapon). However, a great bunch of skills is 4.5m range, which is exactly dagger range (2.5m) +2m like R9.
I first considered the +2m range as a stupid add, but after getting R9 daggers I actually started to appreciate it. Now it's an add I consider great (PvE also) and couldn't do without anymore.0 -
@Empu Sadly, one of the main reasons I went r9 was because of the range boost.
[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
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_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »@Empu Sadly, one of the main reasons I went r9 was because of the range boost.
I would love to be able to headhunt from farther away0 -
@ Skai : why "sadly" :O
When I got the r9 daggers there were only very few that actually used it. Most were saying at that time that r9 daggers were bad because no -int and because GoF would be dangerous. I decided to get them because I figured that my build would cancel out the negative effect of GoF. For me, the +2m range was something I wondered why they even put it on. And since there were like 10 others tops that had those daggers, I didn't have any feedback on it. Before using r9, I never even imagened +range would be such a great add... Seems you were more visionairy on that b:laugh0 -
i dont have r9 daggers but tbh i never have a problem with a shorter range. there are a few situations (like harpys, when bosses move a bit and u lose some attacks getting to them) but thats definately not why i would chose to get r9 daggers:O0
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Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »@ Skai : why "sadly" :O
When I got the r9 daggers there were only very few that actually used it. Most were saying at that time that r9 daggers were bad because no -int and because GoF would be dangerous. I decided to get them because I figured that my build would cancel out the negative effect of GoF. For me, the +2m range was something I wondered why they even put it on. And since there were like 10 others tops that had those daggers, I didn't have any feedback on it. Before using r9, I never even imagened +range would be such a great add... Seems you were more visionairy on that b:laugh
xD I got mine around the same time they were really rare, and I got them more for the range than the GoF and attack levels. I just knew they hit hard, and the +range looked really enticing, and it helped so much with skills. It made skills like rift and tackling slash hit from so far away.[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
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R9:Range, GoF, Attack Levels
G15:-Int, GoF, Costs more if you want certain adds.
Seriously, can't you just use the uhm...Search Function?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Current Sin Build:
pwcalc.com/b6540a34278d977d
Current Wizard Build:
pwcalc.com/068f7e40791a3be60 -
R9 are surperior to g15 by far (i have test both of them) and there is no comparaison between them.
My r9 start to be superior to my old g15 +10(5aps) only when they was at +6..
Like empu said it before they have "sure stats".0 -
_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »xD I got mine around the same time they were really rare, and I got them more for the range than the GoF and attack levels. I just knew they hit hard, and the +range looked really enticing, and it helped so much with skills. It made skills like rift and tackling slash hit from so far away.
Erm, almost positive it doesn't affect the range of skills. Skill range is set with the skill. If affects your unskilled attack range (your auto attack or melee attack range).Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Erm, almost positive it doesn't affect the range of skills. Skill range is set with the skill. If affects your unskilled attack range (your auto attack or melee attack range).
They don't.
However, Earthen Rift is "melee" range, which is the range of your weapon. In comparison, Power Subsea Strike is 4.5 meters, thus with a normal weapon you'd have to be in melee range to use Subsea -> Rift.
The same is true with Tackling Slash: It has a 4.5 meter range, but your melees only have 2.5 meters. Thus, you have to take a few steps after Tackling Slash to actually start attacking.
The Range +2 makes all such scenarios not happen by increasing your Melee range to 4.5.
Or maybe Skai has had too much rainbow juice.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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Yes, I must have had too much rainbow juice.
I think the main thing I was trying to say was that it was convenient to now having to walk much further to auto attack a mob after using a skill than other daggers. It's particularly useful against mobs that are melee only, where you can TS them and attack them outside of their melee range.
It just made a lot of things more convenient as a sin. As Olbaze said a long time ago, devs probably put the +2 range on the daggers on purpose, because of the skills.[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!0 -
_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »Yes, I must have had too much rainbow juice.
I think the main thing I was trying to say was that it was convenient to now having to walk much further to auto attack a mob after using a skill than other daggers. It's particularly useful against mobs that are melee only, where you can TS them and attack them outside of their melee range.
It just made a lot of things more convenient as a sin. As Olbaze said a long time ago, devs probably put the +2 range on the daggers on purpose, because of the skills.
true dat. One trick I like to use in CoA when someone is trying to gank my mob and the damage is really close is to stand really close to where the mob spawns, then the mob will reposition itself to its normally range as aggro bounces. This normally forces my opponent to move, but not me because of the +1 range on my G15s. They lose about 10 attacks because of this
Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
r9 definatly but theres 1 or two people i think on sanc who have double int on the G15s and that is 5.0 but they get pan gu insted so they 4.0 base i dont see point in that though if u spark all time anyway so u wud be 5.0 with 3.3 base so realistcly u shud just go for the 45 strength tome and restat that strength into 45 dex assuming u get 0.05 x2 and there that 45 dex counts alot more damage than 106/130 max phys attk on the G15 stats so 103 is average level for a sin that works out saying you have endgame gear 570 dex with double int and sac/gof insted of getting pan gu but no one thinks of that, sorry for argueing but thats how i see it no point going 4.0 base if ur 3.33 base if 95% of time u spark anywayLOLb:victory0
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double int on the G15s and that is 5.0 but they get pan gu insted so they 4.0 base i dont see point in that though if u spark all time anyway so u wud be 5.0 with 3.3 base
The use of that is that you can get better defensive armor, for instance cube necklace + warsong belt. On my bm I have double -int fists, which gave me the opportunity to use 5 nirvana pieces (more defences and +10 def lvl).
The other use of that is the famous 4/5 with windshield sage sin.0 -
if i was a demon sin with double 0.05 and zerk then i would do either this http://pwcalc.com/254145ba01c96922
http://pwcalc.com/5bcae9fa8e5efbfa0 -
SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »if i was a demon sin with double 0.05 and zerk then i would do either this http://pwcalc.com/254145ba01c96922
http://pwcalc.com/5bcae9fa8e5efbfa
I prefer the 4.0 base than those two.0 -
r9 definatly but theres 1 or two people i think on sanc who have double int on the G15s and that is 5.0 but they get pan gu insted so they 4.0 base i dont see point in that though if u spark all time anyway so u wud be 5.0 with 3.3 base so realistcly u shud just go for the 45 strength tome and restat that strength into 45 dex assuming u get 0.05 x2 and there that 45 dex counts alot more damage than 106/130 max phys attk on the G15 stats so 103 is average level for a sin that works out saying you have endgame gear 570 dex with double int and sac/gof insted of getting pan gu but no one thinks of that, sorry for argueing but thats how i see it no point going 4.0 base if ur 3.33 base if 95% of time u spark anywayEmpu - Sanctuary wrote: »The use of that is that you can get better defensive armor, for instance cube necklace + warsong belt. On my bm I have double -int fists, which gave me the opportunity to use 5 nirvana pieces (more defences and +10 def lvl).
The other use of that is the famous 4/5 with windshield sage sin.
Multiple other reasons. Having the a LUaD over a 45 strength tome allows you to hotkey switch from 2 pieces defensive armor and 5.0 sparked to 4.0 unsparked killing mobs that don't require the spark or defensive gear but you want to kill 20% faster.
51 stats > 45 stats, even if 25 of them are "defensive". Especially since there are so few ways to increase magic resistance and still have desirable gear for a sin.
The 1% crit rate on LUaD gives an exceptional add to dps.
And the benefits for sage sins is obvious.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
R9 if you can afford it.0
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Oh my GOD that's one hell of a run-on-sentence WoT... Xwxr9 definatly but theres 1 or two people i think on sanc who have double int on the G15s and that is 5.0 but they get pan gu insted so they 4.0 base i dont see point in that though if u spark all time anyway so u wud be 5.0 with 3.3 base so realistcly u shud just go for the 45 strength tome and restat that strength into 45 dex assuming u get 0.05 x2 and there that 45 dex counts alot more damage than 106/130 max phys attk on the G15 stats so 103 is average level for a sin that works out saying you have endgame gear 570 dex with double int and sac/gof insted of getting pan gu but no one thinks of that, sorry for argueing but thats how i see it no point going 4.0 base if ur 3.33 base if 95% of time u spark anyway
Someone give me a hand here? My brain assploded all over the place.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
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Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh my GOD that's one hell of a run-on-sentence WoT... Xwx
Someone give me a hand here? My brain assploded all over the place.
lemme help with thatr9 is gud 3.33 double int g15 +45 str moar dex0 -
BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
Bind Them0 -
SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »Bind Them
And let me sage sin on another account go nekid NEVAH!BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »And let me sage sin on another account go nekid NEVAH!
Or you can give me them through the server stash stone b:avoid[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
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youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!0 -
_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »Or you can give me them through the server stash stone b:avoid
psh you have r9. im catching up to you in post counts. however mine are mostly unproductive.0 -
SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »psh you have r9. im catching up to you in post counts. however mine are mostly unproductive.
My retired archer has more posts than you. Try again?
b:cuteIf you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0
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