Clerics with good HP

SxeChik - Archosaur · April 2012

Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »

since only a few can have access to a full recast r9 armor +12 with JOSD, everyone can indeed tweak their build a little to have a balanced cleric.

right

Azzazin - Dreamweaver · April 2012

For those with coin to spare, and wanting some more survivability with the BEST hp gain/magic point loss ratio, consider this:

-Standard endgame strength requirement is 54-55 (g15-r9)
-light armor helmet str requirement is 104 str points
-104-55 = 49 str points needed to equip light armor helmet
-+12 light armor helm refines for ~1000 more hp than +12 arcane lunar helm (both 2nd cast g15)
-49 vitality points on cleric = 490 hp, since 10 hp per vitality point
-1000 hp-490 hp = ~500 more hp than if those points were allocated as vitality

Why could this be a very easy thing to do?

Consider that it is rather easy to get 10 or 11 str from rings, so you could get 20-22 str points from rings alone. Then, you could wear a tome that gives 25 strength (heck, if you are really rich, just get a +45 strength tome from scroll of tome, and then you only need strength on one ring). Otherwise, get +25 str tome and stat 3-5 extra points into strength, and voila, you can now use light armor helm.

*keep in mind this only becomes worth it if you plan on +12ing the helm. Should you do so, this is the best hp gain/stat allocation you can do as an arcane*

Surely I'm not the first person to think of this? Has anybody else done this? I plan to do this on my cleric should I find a buyer for my current helm and cape, which are g15 arcane.

Azzazin

Decus - Dreamweaver · April 2012

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Surely I'm not the first person to think of this? Has anybody else done this? I plan to do this on my cleric should I find a buyer for my current helm and cape, which are g15 arcane.

I know Synta does this on his cleric. Like everything else, it's a matter of money.

VKnightV - Lost City · April 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Green comment was actually the point of my post and in your argument you agreed with me. I don't mean to stereotype vit clerics, as I said, some clerics don't have the skill level to survive and need that extra cushion and others just like it or have their own reasons. However, that was a rebuttal against the original poster who very much stereo typed that if you're pure, you're fail.

You have about 1.2k more hp, worse defenses than me, 177 more vit and probably 177 less magic than me. All that vit really doesn't make much of a difference in survivability because clerics get the worst benefits from it. The point of my post was to show that pure magic has many defensive bonuses over vitality with stronger heals and stronger magic defenses, and obviously pure magic has more attack and healing power. If a cleric can't keep their tank alive, then the cleric dies too so is a cleric with weaker heals or stronger heals more likely to survive?

This argument of vit=survivability is flawed. Not saying vit doesn't help but most the things we fight at range and a majority of them have magic ranged attacks or aoes. You get more magic defense from adding a point to magic than you do by adding a point to vit. You might get more hp with vit (10 hp, lowest of any class) but it comes off much quicker because the defenses are lower and a vit build heals less. If its physical, stack yourself, use your seals, kite the mob, play your cleric like a cleric. So my experience of having vit clerics being the squishy ones and dieing while the pure magic cleric survives is factual for good reasons. So to quote you, A dead 'vit' cleric can heal no one either.

Not saying all are fail. I'm just saying the build doesn't lend itself to success as much as a pure build which still gives you more than adequate hp and defenses as well as some benefits of its own. I'm saying the vit clerics and pure clerics that fail, fail more because of the player and the gear than the buid.

Edit: Disclaimer that I'm talking for PvE purposes.

DO YOU GO AROUND TELLING EA AND BARBS TO USE UR BOW AND AXE AND PLAY YOUR TOON AS INTENDED TO WHEN YOU SEE THEM USING CLAWS.

sorry but your logic is fail as i belive 300 mag as 100 is good enough for heal on anything hard.
maybe if the tank hade good gear he wouldent have died or the squishy sin did not steal
agro while being a two shoot the ep would do fine.

i think your so full of DD you want to see ep as dd to but forget ep is healer and in no
way is our class dd.
better heal is not necesery if the rest of the party have good gear to tank the damage.

and again with the pvp i am in lost city and i dont see many ep out pking i actually dont know of any wish put fear in the server.

pwi like diversity classes is why they let the few of us ep wear heavy armor why they let barb ea and even some sin wear claw.

anyways you ppl out there have fun as that is why we are here for not soem stupid debate of what someone personally thinks.

Decus - Dreamweaver · April 2012

VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »

...EA AND BARBS...

MY-EN and PWI terms side-by-side. Awesome...

b:sweat

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver · April 2012

VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »

DO YOU GO AROUND TELLING EA AND BARBS TO USE UR BOW AND AXE AND PLAY YOUR TOON AS INTENDED TO WHEN YOU SEE THEM USING CLAWS.

sorry but your logic is fail as i belive 300 mag as 100 is good enough for heal on anything hard.
maybe if the tank hade good gear he wouldent have died or the squishy sin did not steal
agro while being a two shoot the ep would do fine.

i think your so full of DD you want to see ep as dd to but forget ep is healer and in no
way is our class dd.
better heal is not necesery if the rest of the party have good gear to tank the damage.

and again with the pvp i am in lost city and i dont see many ep out pking i actually dont know of any wish put fear in the server.

pwi like diversity classes is why they let the few of us ep wear heavy armor why they let barb ea and even some sin wear claw.

anyways you ppl out there have fun as that is why we are here for not soem stupid debate of what someone personally thinks.

I think once again someone has missed the point Sakubatou has put across. He is not trying to tell people how to play or build their cleric and has actually agreed that pure and vit builds both have merits. The point he is raising is that with better equipment and refines a pure build can get similiar HP and in certain situations survive better due to better heals and mdef.

I am also a HA cleric with a little over 300 mag points and there is no instance in this game that I cannot heal a squad in. Is it the most efficient build - no, does it work - yes, have I enjoyed building a toon to my liking - most importantly yes. Enjoy the game, play it how you like.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · April 2012

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

MY-EN and PWI terms side-by-side. Awesome...

b:sweat

That's how you know he's really badass.

VKnightV - Lost City · April 2012

well the thread he started with he was bashing the vit build as less effective as when ppl refine bla bla bla.

i saw that he later said he was not talking bad about vit build and that its a personal choice.

just gona point out original build like barb using axe is pretty much dead archer only sticking with bow is also dead as the ea would try get around 50 point or more and might **** his build in the process.

barb go from 60 dex to 150 or so and get some extra dex from gear and they do better then original build.

so 300 mag is more then enough as a caster for HEAL if the tank are these squeshy tanks it is not my problem thenb:laugh.

b:bye anyways have fun and 1st of all enjoy ur game stop bashing others build and just play urs.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2012

ok nmv your hp if your squad die your are prolly the one who fail, often i have ppl with 3-4khp in my squad and they dont die.

I have 2 clerics, one sage 101 hybrid vit 8.7k hp and 5k p.def unbuffed and im TT99, my other cleric is demon around 6.2k hp and around 4.5k p.def unbuffed full magic (R8), its possible to be pure magic with a decent hp and p.def, but majority of pure magic cleric dont refine their stuff and use elemental or etheral ornement (ill never understand that).

Just let me give u a exemple, in nirvana caster really often im the only cleric no mystic and sometimes not even a veno, and have wizz with 4.1k hp (i rarelly see wizz more than 5k hp its always around 4k-4.5k) in squad, psy etc no R9 and no one die, i do my job, i dont DD letting ppl die to show how much a DD. On my wizz (5k hp) with 2 cleric and sometime even 3 i die minimum 5 times (often 10-15 times) in a caster run and its charms and using hp pots. Even a run i die first boss with 3 clerics, and they claimed they was good...

People world chat asking to link weapon, to be honest the best clerics i saw in caster runs are the one using TT99 weapon cause they know they are no DD but cleric and they focus on heal. R9 cleric are just awfull, they are the worse cleric ever, on all the R9 i saw/been in squad with 1 only 1 on the server was still healing the other R9 cleric will prefer let the entire squad die to show off how much the DD (which make thing the person who make the post is), you are a cleric if you want DD make a wizz/psy, yes i have a pure mag. cleric but i use for when im alone as DD gbq,cube,coa or w/e, in a squad my main job is to keep my squad alive.

But when im on my wizz i see some cleric do stuff useless, on my cleric if my BB drop ill aoe heal, debuff magic boss, aoe heal, cyclone, aoe.. etc til i can have chi to BB again, cause after aoe heal u have time do a skill with aoe cd, but i see some cleric when BB drop plume shield, purify ppl, DD on boss, than do 1 aoe heal and QQ no chi for BB, #1 i never used plume shiel in caster and never die its just waste of chi, same with purify i almost dont use it i only use if im slow decrease to be able cast more fast aoe heal that's all, i see some clerics purify every 15 secondes and its not a joke, so except if have demon purify (and not all have it) u just waste chi constantly for nothing and QQ no chi fo BB.

So yea in resume in PvE stuff who care you have 8-10-15k hp if u suck as cleric ur hp wont help u be better to keep ur squad alive. Ok 3k hp is low and cannot survive some aoe boss but some cleric with 4.5-5k do a really good job and even more than R9 one with 10k hp. Good cleric are rare, and more the cleric is good gears look like its worse.
So just a advice to the pure magic cleric or ppl who plan go to it, yes its possible but remember u'll need more refine and shard than ''normall'' cleric to have a good survavibility but its possible.

And 75 strg is a waste unless ur LA.

Solar_one - Sanctuary · April 2012

Common people it all comes down to personal choice and how you learn and play the game through i myself went pure mage im 57 vit ( 5 Base) 54 str base 5 Dex base 523 Mag 461 Base

unbuffed i have 6015 Hp 10860 mp
Phy Def is 4103
Mag Att is 14204-17562 and my Ele Def is between 8 -9 k
this is not full R8 im still useing TT90 gold Sleeves & Boots ( i dont really like the TT99)
my refines are from 5 -10

I have no problem in any instance what so ever, I have no idea what stats a vit build cleric would have but if they can do the same and at the end of the run no one dies then what does it really matter ?
It all comes down to how that person plays His/Her game .

There will always be ppl on both sides who are good and bad in how they play this will never change
I went pure mage becouse it felt RIGHT for me.

I cant and wont comment on TW or PK as i have never played this side of the game .

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · April 2012

Its a personnal choice to be AA, LA or HA, as be vit or magic, as long as the cleric can survive to keep ppl alive in PvE that doesnt matter.

The problem with someone pure magic cleric is some have poor gear and have 1.8k pdef BUFFED and 3.5k hp, in that case its useless be pure magic cause there some cave the cleric will be one shot by the aoe or if get aggro on one mob.

On my vit cleric i have around 350 points in magic with gears (i think its 330 without gear not sure i dont use her often)and i see a huge difference on my heal and BB with my pure magic cleric, some ppl told me that a cleric with 300 points in magic have a hard time keep ppl alive with a BB in GV, i can keep my squad alive on my vit cleric, cause i play since long time and have a lot of experience as cleric but i see a huge difference on the heal and i prefer way much play my magic cleric, my magic cleric can in one heal fully heal every class and on my vit cleric take me way much more than one heal to fully heal the person, so yea i can do the job on both to keep squad alive but so more more easy on magic cleric than vit. <-that's for PvE.

For PvP and TW i prefer way much more my vit cleric cause i have way much more survavibility than my magic cleric, i used both a lot in TW to see the difference, yes my heals are more powerfull on magic but i die way much more too, on vit i heal less yes but i can handle way much more damage and stay alive way much more than my magic.

That's my opinion and im good place to say that since i have 2 clerics diffrent build, some ppl judge without even never play the other build. Both build have good and bad thing its just a personnal choice, but pure magic need work a bit more on ref/shard to have enough survavibility in PvE and dont be one shot by boss aoe or aggro a mob.

I personnally dont have a LA or HA, but from a guy i know who have LA say he have a really good survavibility (which is true) but he admit himself that his heals are really **** next to a AA.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver · April 2012

Really? Don't blame the builds. Theres nothing wrong with Pure magic clerics, i myself am one and i have 8.8K hp, almost at 9k so im 11.7k buffed and almost reached the 9k pdef mark. i cannot stand vit clerics who think they are above the other builds. (I run into these alot)

Thinking logically here:
Pure mag = more refines on gear than weapon
Vit build = more refines on weapon than gear

So they both evened out in my opinion.

In my opinion dont go pure mag if you cant afford it, its alot of money to manage a pure build.

Dont look down on other builds its the cleric behind the build that makes the difference.

Kanmi - Sanctuary · April 2012

Mitachi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i myself am one and i have 8.8K hp, almost at 9k so im 13.7k buffed and almost reached the 9k pdef mark. i cannot stand vit clerics who think they are above the other builds.

Hmmm no clue how u manage to reach 13.7k HP buffed if you are under 9K HP unbuffed . With 9.4K HP unbuffed i dont reach 13K HP buffed O.o . My veno who has 10K HP unbuffed are still not close to 13.7K (13485 HP buffed to be exact and with lv 11 buff)

Mitachi - Dreamweaver · April 2012

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmmm no clue how u manage to reach 13.7k HP buffed if you are under 9K HP unbuffed . With 9.4K HP unbuffed i dont reach 13K HP buffed O.o . My veno who has 10K HP unbuffed are still not close to 13.7K (13485 HP buffed to be exact and with lv 11 buff)

oh my bad lols i was confused thanks for pointing that out, i was thinking of the hp i would have the next refine sale. i meant 11.7k lols

Xainou - Sanctuary · April 2012

Personally, my cleric got 5k hp. That's is with 50 vit base and TT90 armor. She is gonna get r8 some far away day but yea, it's not my main priority.

I can't say I got big problems surviving. Sure, I won't be able to tank a hard aoe just standing there, but that's what skills are for. Making smart use of plume shell, my genie and my heals I don't die often. The only time I had problems healing was healing a factionmates barb. My cleric vs a +12 r9 barb with 50k hp is just... well I tickled him. b:surrender

Having played both vit cleric and pure magic, I can only say: Both work. It comes down to more than the build and gear if you want to be a good player.

Sir_Lag_Alot - Sanctuary · April 2012

I am pure magic with 9569 hp unbuffed and 12769 buffed with 3 base vit
and i have 604 magic ... so the glass cannon can be hardened just takes some mix and knowing how to use your gear to make up for what your missing

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · April 2012

Remember about a 1 1/2 years ago when 5k hp was considered "endgame" and 4k clerics were doing everything 7k hp clerics are doing now? As hp goes up, skill goes down =/ I notice it myself on my bm, as I refine I get lazier about skill use for survivability.

There are a few people in the forums who have completely respectable but different views about defense vs effectiveness.

My own view is if I need 5k hp to survive but have 7k, then that extra 2k hp is basically useless other than a mistake cushion. I say the same thing about my barb. I pulled full delta with 14k hp, I have 17k now. At 15k I was tanking 3-3 with a cleric and pulling Delta uncharmed, and at 17k its basically soloable with paint. So why would I focus more on hp and defenses that I don't need when I can grow my damage and aggro ability for tanking?

As a cleric, its the same issue. We are criticizing 4k hp as low and I'd say its bare minimum but 5k used to be the "endgame hp" where you could do anything if you were good. So considering 5k is only about +4-5 refines on a pure magic cleric, and +10 gives you around 9k hp before shards, I feel like any point into vit is a waste that could be put towards having a more effective cleric.

I just had a friend kicking himself because the money he wasted to restat from 53 vit down to 3 vit could have just been used towards refining and he'd have had more hp and better attacks and heals.

Again, nothing wrong with adding vitality if you don't feel you are good enough to play as a pure cleric or don't feel like refining your gear. I just don't see the point. If you do add vit, I'd cap at 53 so you can restat to pure later.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · April 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Remember about a 1 1/2 years ago when 5k hp was considered "endgame" and 4k clerics were doing everything 7k hp clerics are doing now?

Found some old line-up screenshots from my early TWs with Cala where I had 4400hp, and that was considered decent for the time. b:shocked

StarianNight - Dreamweaver · April 2012

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Found some old line-up screenshots from my early TWs with Cala where I had 4400hp, and that was considered decent for the time. b:shocked

I have 4.5k hp right now, so that's bad? b:sad Well, I do get one shot by archers in TW often :S.

Eoria - Harshlands · April 2012

tbh, if you have under 6k HP unbuffed nowadays, you're just gonna be a total one/two-shot in TW unless you're not fighting any decently refined r9s. And even then...lol.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · April 2012

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

tbh, if you have under 6k HP unbuffed nowadays, you're just gonna be a total one/two-shot in TW unless you're not fighting any decently refined r9s. And even then...lol.

Yah, it was never made clear whether we were discussing pvp, 1v1, group pk, or PvE. Since the OP used all PvE examples I've assumed that was what the discussion was about.

My views:
1v1- Pure. But only once you've refined gear to allow your survivability. The refines expected here are much higher than those expected for pve. Once refined restat to a pure build. You'll need the killing power to charm bypass. Otherwise you'll either lose or stall out in a draw.

group pk- Vit. You have people you need to keep alive and people to kill for you. As the healer, you are usually more a target than anyone else.

PvE- Pure. There is no need for vitality since our needs can easily be met with basic refines and as I stated the increased mdef and increased heals may offer more survivability because of the poor returns clerics get from vit. Plus, keeping your tank alive is the easiest way to keep yourself alive and stronger heals help with that.

cloudmistress · April 2012

i'm only saying this: a dead cleric has no use in w/e ...

Clerics with good HP

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