Clerics with good HP
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NakedGirl - Heavens Tear
Posts: 69 Arc User
Ok I just wanted to throw this out there... I have gotten some greif over the last couple years about putting alot of vit on my cleric. I am a partly R9 cleric (lvl 102) with 8750 hp unbuffed. I have 74 str as well. My R8 wep is +10 and I can solo BH 89...etc... I am often times the only one alive in a not so good metal or fire squad as well as others where people are so squishy. Have also been in a number of other squads where a lvl 100 cleric only has like 3-4K HP. Let me tell you, those people often die from one hit from an aoe from a boss. You all may think that pure magic is the way to go, but I am here to tell you that it really bites being in a squad with you and I am healing the tank and have to stop healing to res you. At higher levels, you do more healing and less "hitting" yourself and you DO need to have some HP. So get a clue and start adding some more vit to your gear or at least refine it better. You can say I am fail, but I will disagree when you are laying at my feet dead and I am resing you time and time again cause you can't take a hit. All you new clerics or thinking about building one, PLEASE give your cleric some vit and get decent HP. Was in a squad the other day with a cleric with 13K HP and it was frickin awesome. I don't have enough money to get full R9 and all +10-12 like she was, but let me tell you, she was awesome. (Won't say her name, but if she reads this she will know). I take my hat off to her and will squad with her anytime. Just had to get that out there, don't be so squishy especially by level 100 for those bh's. Thanks... The One...The Only... NakedGirl
Helping those who help themselves... NakedGirl 103 cleric Heaven's Tear. b:kissb:bye
Post edited by NakedGirl - Heavens Tear on
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i agree with you. Unbuff i have over 8.5k hp. With barb buffs i am over 11K. i am level 101 and play raging tides server. hopefully with a few more shards and refines i will be even higher. I have r8 and do not intend to go r9. a dead cleric does not do a squad any good. I like being a BEEFY cleric.0
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Text with no paragraph are so hard to read... but anyway
1) I dunno why u have 74 str on your cleric
2) You dont need vit to reach high HP (i have 3 vit base and i have 9.2K/9.4k HP unbuffed depending which weapon i'm wearing)
3) I agree a 3K HP pure magic cleric is kinda lame but don't blame their build, blame the fact they didn't improve their gears enough to reach decent HP .
4) If it's all about PVE, you dont need 10k HP to do your job well .0 -
You dont need vit to be good , just make clever choices and investments in gear - refines - shards[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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This post is so true. Seriously, if you reach 100 and your HP is like 3-4k, then you fail. No matter how great you heal, you cannot stand Snakefist aoe if the squad kills him too slow.Insanity b:thanks0
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I've seen Clerics with 3-4k hp do fine in Bh's, I myself have 4k; 5k when buffed and I still do fine against snakefist aoe's0
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hm... I shouldn't have stereotyped
should have said "it's quite hard to stand against snakefist with that amount 3-4k" Insanity b:thanks0 -
There is nothing wrong with any of the cleric builds you have listed, a lot of clerics do stat the extra vit to survive better for TW/pk etc but I also know plenty of full magic clerics who survive just as well or better. It does however pain me a little to see clerics with less than 5k HP buffed at 100+ dying to every little aoe.
I personally have 13k HP unbuffed with only 3 base vit, most of your HP can be obtained from refines (I'm full +10) which allows you to go full magic if you like without sacrificing heals/attack or even to stat extra strength (if you think 74 str is bad I have 252 base b:chuckle)0 -
SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »(if you think 74 str is bad I have 252 base b:chuckle)
You have 252 str cause you're HA cleric =.=
There is no build that require 74 str base ( 54/55 for AA and 104 for LA) so ya there is something wrong on having 20 point wasted on stats that is not required for anything .0 -
Like everyone's stated, don't blame their build, blame their bad investments.
I myself have 9.1k hp unbuffed with 3 base vit, and no HP shards (went for def levels instead).
I agree with Kanmi, there's no reason to have 74 Strength; that's like being stuck in between AA and LA. That 20 odd points could be so much more efficient being added to your Vit or Mag. No point to have excess strength as a Cleric.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well, personally i only have 4.7k hp unbuffed, i have a 50 vit base and 52 str base. I really don't see the point of putting more points into those two stats as what people already said, with better refine and sharding i can easily reach 5k, maybe more. Even now, with my tiny amount of hp, i can survive perfectly fine in pve. THe only thing i have trouble with is being one shot in pvp b:surrender0
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im currently have nearly 4k hp due to my armor borrowed from fac and trying to get high hp is alittle bit hard for me as im not so good at refining and i jus stop at +3 since refining aid are expensive and i dun have that much coins to spent on...0
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ValkyrieLind - Sanctuary wrote: »im currently have nearly 4k hp due to my armor borrowed from fac and trying to get high hp is alittle bit hard for me as im not so good at refining and i jus stop at +3 since refining aid are expensive and i dun have that much coins to spent on...
Farm DQ, get event card = free tisha/tienkang
I remember being able to +4 with only mirages back then, now it's hard to +3... Anyway if it's only for pve +5 is decent and easy to get with tisha/tienkang . I know people who even +8 with those -.- i'm too scared and usually stop at +7 .0 -
i agree a cleric needs high hp, and its incredibly useful for endgame (def lvls from josds are also really nice). but later on, you will not need any vit. i am r9+10 with 11k hp unbuffed and 4base vit pts. reset the vit into magic later on. each vit wont give u a large increase in ur % hp, but when you get a good weapon, every magic pt will do a lot to increase ur base magic atk, because your base magic attack is a complicated product of both wep and magic pts.the loser fail nab cleric from dreamweaver who quit pwi, but still wanders the forums.0
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Elanxu - Dreamweaver wrote: »...your base magic attack is a complicated product of both wep and magic pts.
Not that complicated :P
I did a breakdown of it once to disprove someone that was arguing with me about how specifically mag affects mattk and how adversely statting vit affects it. b:quietProving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
There are full mag clerics that have reached 12k+ unbuffed.
Those builds aren't fail, they just need more coins to make them usable. It's like sage sin or HA veno...it's a great choice if you're willing to put time and effort into reaching the potential of that choice.
I myself still have 60 vit statted from back in the day when I was still in r8 armor. Soon as I get my hp past 9k unbuffed I'll restat those points.
I do get the OP's point though. I've been in caster's with eps that have pathetic hp. And they claim it's worth it because they can heal better. But I end up healing anyway because the bosses wipe the floor with them. So yeah, if you can't get decent gear after lvl 100...DONT GO FULL MAG!0 -
Full mag. is nice if you have the coins to spend on refines etc. I think adding vit should only be needed and should be done if you can't refine very high for the moment being.
I don't like being in squads (like casters vana) where clerics/ or even dd's have lower than 5k hp caus thats just ending bad lol.
Personally i have about 70vit still just caus i can't refine higher atm. And i like it b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The greatest danger for most of us
is not that our aim is too high
and we miss it
but that it's too low and
we reach it.
-Michelangelo0 -
its not a big deal if you can keep urself alive in pve. tho i gota say if you tw you need at least 8k hp unbuffed. there was one time i remembered i forgot to put gear on =.= except my r8 top and galaive and healed for 3-2. i thought it was strange when emp's aoe drained my hp bar so fast. b:chuckle. i had 3.8 k hp with just my r8 top lol noone died so for pve it depends on skills. but when u reach 100 if you dont have at least 5k hp you wont even survive if you bb in many unfortunate squads with peole that doesnt know how to play their class in instances.
for example clerics often get in while in bb in rb. cos barbs doesnt know how to take agro or no barb in squad and bm just claws everything.
i know that i dont prefer squading with randoms but there are days when you get online and all ur faction mates already did their dailies so you have to find ur own squad sometimes you get into unfortunate squads so extra hp helps at these types of squads. even if you plan on only pve.
add however many vit you want to ur build as much as you are comfortable with but have decent healing power too. I myself love the mag build and have it on all my mage chars. but if you dont have good refine/gear, adding vit is fine.0 -
Another one of these...
Well since the original poster seems over geared and under experienced in actual play I thought I'd share my experiences.
I am pure magic but have only +4-6 refines, so about 4.8k hp, 12k mdef, and 4k? pdef self buffed. That's more than I need to do anything in PvE.
There are a few reasons to add vit: PvP, you can't afford refines, or you suck and need an hp buffer. For PvP, I'd say group pk vit is a good thing. In 1v1 you increase survivability, but run into the problem of lacking damage and finishing power so its arguable whether depriving yourself of DD for hp is good or bad. If you are half competent at playing a cleric and can afford a few refines than pure magic is plenty.
I know for HA classes a pure vit (~200 vit) vs a 3 base build that vit makes up about 15% of the total hp endgame. I'm guessing since AA classes get a pathetic amount of hp per vit but also have armor that refines worse it'd be about the same. Statting vitality counts for almost nothing towards endgame hp. Its real benefit comes from multiplying defenses on G13 or better armors, and in that respect magic is a better mdef multiplier and we have 3 shields and 2 seals if we're forced into a physical damage situation. In other words, defensively, pure magic may benefit you more a majority of the time.
We keep talking about BH Metal for some reason, where every mob ranges magic, the boss aoes magic, and the cleric sits in a bb the entire time. In this situation, in fact, the damage reduction of a pure magic build and the increased heals would give you better survivability than a vit build.
My experience with pure magic build was if there was a vit cleric in squad and they got mob aggro their heals alone were usually too weak to keep themselves alive. Meanwhile, I could throw a single IH on myself, tank a mob, and heal them enough to keep them alive, and my heals were strong enough that I didn't need to spend so much time stacking and could spend more time killing. That's why I always considered pure build to have better survivability also, because we can heal ourselves better and kill quicker.
Anyways, the OP argument of a 3-4k lvl 100 cleric is ridiculous. She blames it on pure build, but what they're really complaining about is clerics with no refines and outdated gear. They're just trying to witchhunt pure clerics with outrageous situations and bad advice.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »Farm DQ, get event card = free tisha/tienkang
I remember being able to +4 with only mirages back then, now it's hard to +3... Anyway if it's only for pve +5 is decent and easy to get with tisha/tienkang . I know people who even +8 with those -.- i'm too scared and usually stop at +7 .
well 2-3 days ago i refined 10 pieces of armor to +4 with around 500 mirages...you only purge once #yopo0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »My experience with pure magic build was if there was a vit cleric in squad and they got mob aggro their heals alone were usually too weak to keep themselves alive. Meanwhile, I could throw a single IH on myself, tank a mob, and heal them enough to keep them alive, and my heals were strong enough that I didn't need to spend so much time stacking and could spend more time killing. That's why I always considered pure build to have better survivability also, because we can heal ourselves better and kill quicker.
This is your experience, but I feel it's pretty biased. I'm a vit cleric myself (180vit), and I can do all the things you stated above without difficulty. b:bye
The red words are just so wrong I deal 1k-1k5 less damage than other normal (not much vit) clerics, yet I often save them... you know why? A dead cleric can heal no one, due to the fac they die a lot (in general). Even though my vit are a lot, my mag is not as much as where it's supposed to be, it all again comes down to your weapon and how you understand your char.
I would not use IH in that situation, because Im a vit cleric, so I play differently. I'd use my lvl 11 SoR, giving me extra phy. def. with the heal going along. Then I hit mob. I have 15% crit, so crit appears pretty often (See, all come down to your gears, not how you build your char, and whether or not a player understands their cleric is another huge factor of success.) Most of the time I have no problem solo mobs in instances, of course there are some mobs I cannot solo alone, or struggle a lot. So bottom line is: Please don't stereotype all vit build clerics are failed I'm a vit build cleric, never regretted at this choice.
*Again I'm talking in general, that means not r9 included :P*
A lil info about my cleric: 6k - 6k2 HP unbuff (I use both glaive99 and r8glaive). Mag att: 11k2. Phy. Def.: 3k3 buffed. Mag. Def: 11k sth.Insanity b:thanks0 -
SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »This is your experience, but I feel it's pretty biased. I'm a vit cleric myself (180vit), and I can do all the things you stated above without difficulty. b:bye
The red words are just so wrong I deal 1k-1k5 less damage than other normal (not much vit) clerics, yet I often save them... you know why? A dead cleric can heal no one, due to the fac they die a lot (in general). Even though my vit are a lot, my mag is not as much as where it's supposed to be, it all again comes down to your weapon and how you understand your char.
I would not use IH in that situation, because Im a vit cleric, so I play differently. I'd use my lvl 11 SoR, giving me extra phy. def. with the heal going along. Then I hit mob. I have 15% crit, so crit appears pretty often (See, all come down to your gears, not how you build your char, and whether or not a player understands their cleric is another huge factor of success.) Most of the time I have no problem solo mobs in instances, of course there are some mobs I cannot solo alone, or struggle a lot. So bottom line is: Please don't stereotype all vit build clerics are failed I'm a vit build cleric, never regretted at this choice.
*Again I'm talking in general, that means not r9 included :P*
A lil info about my cleric: 6k - 6k2 HP unbuff (I use both glaive99 and r8glaive). Mag att: 11k2. Phy. Def.: 3k3 unbuff. Mag. Def: 11k sth.
Green comment was actually the point of my post and in your argument you agreed with me. I don't mean to stereotype vit clerics, as I said, some clerics don't have the skill level to survive and need that extra cushion and others just like it or have their own reasons. However, that was a rebuttal against the original poster who very much stereo typed that if you're pure, you're fail.
You have about 1.2k more hp, worse defenses than me, 177 more vit and probably 177 less magic than me. All that vit really doesn't make much of a difference in survivability because clerics get the worst benefits from it. The point of my post was to show that pure magic has many defensive bonuses over vitality with stronger heals and stronger magic defenses, and obviously pure magic has more attack and healing power. If a cleric can't keep their tank alive, then the cleric dies too so is a cleric with weaker heals or stronger heals more likely to survive?
This argument of vit=survivability is flawed. Not saying vit doesn't help but most the things we fight at range and a majority of them have magic ranged attacks or aoes. You get more magic defense from adding a point to magic than you do by adding a point to vit. You might get more hp with vit (10 hp, lowest of any class) but it comes off much quicker because the defenses are lower and a vit build heals less. If its physical, stack yourself, use your seals, kite the mob, play your cleric like a cleric. So my experience of having vit clerics being the squishy ones and dieing while the pure magic cleric survives is factual for good reasons. So to quote you, A dead 'vit' cleric can heal no one either.
Not saying all are fail. I'm just saying the build doesn't lend itself to success as much as a pure build which still gives you more than adequate hp and defenses as well as some benefits of its own. I'm saying the vit clerics and pure clerics that fail, fail more because of the player and the gear than the buid.
Edit: Disclaimer that I'm talking for PvE purposes.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Yes, I agree with you in the green words, but not the whole post of yours.
Let me ask you, how is the 800 mag. att. difference (you have 12k mag. att., I have 11k2 mag. att.) makes a big difference that could lead to "a vit cleric cannot keep their tank alive" ??? H-O-W?b:bye Does not make sense.
I dont know if you ever been in squad with cleric that has 3k8 HP in nirvy (How? Because they go pure mag. If they cannot get decent gears or good shards, WHY NOT adding a lot more vit then?) Let me tell you, they are a pain! Im not trying to be rude, but they die A LOT. (Now don't start going "get a better squad/choose better members". Im trying to prove the point that vit cleric comes in handy in a lot situations. Your better heal power or whatever you call it, really? 800 difference? Ha! 1k2 more HP vs 800 mag. att. difference, good choice!) And do you really need mag. def. which you already got a bunch? Yes you do, but it's NOT essential. So don't bring it in your argument. About the so-called "better healing power", I already said above about it.Insanity b:thanks0 -
SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »Yes, I agree with you in the green words, but not the whole post of yours.
Let me ask you, how is the 800 mag. att. difference (you have 12k mag. att., I have 11k2 mag. att.) makes a big difference that could lead to "a vit cleric cannot keep their tank alive" ??? H-O-W?b:bye Does not make sense.
How did you make that leap? I said 177 more magic means stronger heals. Stronger heals means a pure cleric might keep their tank alive better, and the tank might keep their cleric alive better. On the other hand, weak cleric heals might mean the tank dies and then the cleric dies.
I dont know if you ever been in squad with cleric that has 3k8 HP in nirvy (How? Because they go pure mag. If they cannot get decent gears or good shards, WHY NOT adding a lot more vit then?) I already said if a cleric can't reasonably gear themselves, vit is a good choice to makeup for a person neglecting their gear.Let me tell you, they are a pain! Im not trying to be rude, but they die A LOT. Of course, so would a vit cleric with no gear. Its not a build problem, its a gear problem.(Now don't start going "get a better squad/choose better members". Im trying to prove the point that vit cleric comes in handy in a lot situations. Your better heal power or whatever you call it, really? 800 difference? Ha! 1k2 more HP vs 800 mag. att. difference, good choice!)Better heals has nothing to do with mdef. Lol, every point you add to vit you take away from magic, thats why pure has better heals. Follow the argument. My point in addressing heal strength and magic defense was to show that pure clerics have some defensive gains over vit clerics, too. And do you really need mag. def. which you already got a bunch? yes, considering about 90% of the damage you take will be magic. The ability to take less damage is better than the ability to lose more hp.Yes you do, but it's NOT essential. So don't bring it in your argument. About the so-called "better healing power", I already said above about it.
Responses in red.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
With the ease of obtaining rank 8 and other high end gear pve at end game has become somewhat of a joke for most anyway. As it has been stated any build is viable as long as some effort is placed into making sure your gear is "up to date" with at least some refines. 5K+ HP buffed should be a bench mark to start from but as Sakubatou stated don't ignore the rest of you defences.
Everyone has their own unique playstyles and if you are an experienced cleric then you will already know how to keep your tank alive whether you are pure or a vit cleric. From my personal experience my "weaker" heals have never been the problem when running with squads, I learnt very early on how to adapt to different situations and players.
There are so many reasons why a cleric would die in a squad based instance and most are not related to how much HP the cleric has. Anticipate what is going to happen next, learn to use all your sheilds and even IH stack yourself in times of need. And a reminder good HP does not always make a good cleric/player.0 -
Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »Not that complicated :P
I did a breakdown of it once to disprove someone that was arguing with me about how specifically mag affects mattk and how adversely statting vit affects it. b:quiet
yea i know. i just didnt know the right word to say. maybe something like "combination" or "fusion" would have been a better replacement for "complicated product" i just wanted to say that it depended on both weapon atk and magic, nothing to do with whether it was complicated or not lol sorry for misleading word choice.the loser fail nab cleric from dreamweaver who quit pwi, but still wanders the forums.0 -
You said you had 12k mag. att., I don't care about how much more mag you have. As you said, it all comes down to gears. Then why are you still trying to say that vit clerics are bad? (Vit clerics cannot keep tank alive, vit clerics has weaker healing power, so they die easier - your words)
Better heal has nothing to do with mag def? Are you serious? Whenever you add points to mag, your mag. def. goes up b:bye That's why I said, "Do you need mag. def. while you already got a bunch? Yes you DO, but it's NOT essential."
*I'm not saying that pure mag clerics are worse than vit clerics. All Im saying is about HP. I never mentioned every cleric should add lots of vits like i did unless they have no money for decent gears/good shards to bring their HP up.Insanity b:thanks0 -
SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »With the ease of obtaining rank 8 and other high end gear pve at end game has become somewhat of a joke for most anyway. As it has been stated any build is viable as long as some effort is placed into making sure your gear is "up to date" with at least some refines. 5K+ HP buffed should be a bench mark to start from but as Sakubatou stated don't ignore the rest of you defences.
Everyone has their own unique playstyles and if you are an experienced cleric then you will already know how to keep your tank alive whether you are pure or a vit cleric. From my personal experience my "weaker" heals have never been the problem when running with squads, I learnt very early on how to adapt to different situations and players.
There are so many reasons why a cleric would die in a squad based instance and most are not related to how much HP the cleric has. Anticipate what is going to happen next, learn to use all your sheilds and even IH stack yourself in times of need. And a reminder good HP does not always make a good cleric/player.
I think this is about the best summation of the thread.
Sxec, you fail at reading comprehension and have misquoted me multiple times, misunderstood basic concepts, and gotten butthurt over me defending pure builds like it was some personal insult. This is a personal insult: You are too stoopid to function and your posts have no relevance because you can't follow an argument. At this point you've twisted things into convolution. I said I had 12k mdef, not attack. More magic=stronger heals is irrefutable and not up for debate. I never said a vit build is fail or that they can't keep a tank alive, I simply said their playstyle will be different because their heals are weaker. That is a fact. That is not a personal attack or an attack on vit clerics.
I also did not say vit clerics have less survivability, I said that both have their defensive bonuses. Vit clerics have more hp, pure have more mdef and stronger heals. Both are valid builds because while a vit cleric has to focus on weapon refines to make up their magic loss, a pure cleric has to focus on gear refines to make up the hp difference. A vit cleric should have enough power to heal their tank and a pure cleric should have enough survivability to do anything. Endgame, it is typically recommended to restat to a pure build as your refines come up but if you are smart you can be a pure build 1-100 too.
As a pure cleric I pulled my own FCCs at level 90 with no problems. And as a Barb, I can normally tell within 10 points how much my vitality my cleric has statted. Trust me, barbs notice, no matter how much a cleric says "I heal just as well as a pure." I have ran across a few horrid pure clerics, a few excellent vit clerics, and a few horid vit clerics that covered it with +10 weapons starting at level 70. If I notice my cleric has weaker heals, as a barb, I will adjust to that and do smaller pulls, switch my ornies or blessing, and do what I need to do. You may think you are covering your weaknesses but sometimes its your squad is covering for you.
As stated, I think the quoted post sums up the entire thread quite well so I'm done posting in here.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
At end game in PVE it doesn't matter anyway...
You can be 200 vit cleric and still heal good enough for any PVE content (except maybe some trials)
Pure vs vit cleric only matters in PvP and TW.0 -
ok, I thought you said you had 12k mag. att., but it turned out to be your mag. def. Why do you have to use such vile word calling me stupid? It does not make you smarter b:laugh Thru my mistake, you got a chance to "get butthurt over me defending vit builds like it was some personal insult." So I think you're calling yourself "stoopid".
You "defend" pure mag clerics but sounds like you're bashing the thread creator. And just after a few words, you expose how low you are
Good thing that finally you realize how both ways have their own pros and cons.Insanity b:thanks0 -
There are no pros and cons at end game honestly.
If you can have access to the best gear you want, a pure mag will always be better than an hybrid build.
But since only a few can have access to a full recast r9 armor +12 with JOSD, everyone can indeed tweak their build a little to have a balanced cleric.0
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