Advice to Kind Hearted Clerics

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In a team, co-operation is needed, the cleric's job is to keep the team alive but only if the team tries their best to make the cleric's job easier. We are not gods, we can't do everything. Understand when you can save someone or when you should just let them die. Remember that we are not there to make up for the mistakes of others.

Them's fightin' words b:chuckle I need to learn how to feel not bad when I leave a newb die bc of not listening to me...

SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »

Them's fightin' words b:chuckle I need to learn how to feel not bad when I leave a newb die bc of not listening to me...

It's easy. I find I just never took it on myself to cure someone's idiocy. Also, make sure to ditch squads that are rude. More points if you do it at a time when they really need you.

A cleric needs thick skin

O_O BH69 UNWINED?!! Girl, you got some huge patience there !b:shocked
I'd apologize and say I can't once I hear the word unwined for 69+ BHs......I've got no 2+ hrs to spend on such things anymore add to that the noobs you had. The least thing you could do is refuse to heal b:laugh so don't feel bad.

My Rules:
1. don't sacrifice precious exp for other ppl's stupidity.
2. determine a maximum number of your own deaths in a squad. once that number has been reached, leave.
3. keep the SQUAD alive, not the individuals.

if i'm in a horrible squad and no one is listening to me i'll just leave. if it's only 1-2 idiots then either get them kicked out of the squad or find a way to minimize the damage those idiots can do (let them die and don't rezz them until the boss is about to die or dont rezz them at all). of course it's only fair if you give them a warning of the consequences of their actions (no heals and later a very reluctant rezz), but if they don't read the squad chat then that's their fault.

letting them die and not bothering to rezz them is a really effective method. usually by that time the idiots will leave of their own accord. that being said, it gives me great satisfaction to see idiots dying. their confusion is priceless.

_Mikosage_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you're advocating letting the entire team fail because of your personal distaste for the way someone is playing?

You must be pro.

If the entire team doesn't say something and allows that person to continuously cause the cleric to die and ruins their gameplay, then yes, they should leave. If you don't want the cleric to leave and see them having a hard time with someone who won't listen, don't just stand there and watch them get smacked around by the mobs. Say something, or do what you can to make up for it. EG, attack what the wizzy is attacking. Run if the wizzy goes down and you get aggro to the tank. That way the cleric doesn't end up with heal aggro and can save you just as you saved the cleric. I've been in squads with fail people plenty of times, and when the whole squad compensates for one idiot, it tends to not be a big deal for anyone but that one person. If you won't, then you can't get mad when the person drops because they want to have fun too. Not just die over and over.

_Mikosage_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you're advocating letting the entire team fail because of your personal distaste for the way someone is playing?

You must be pro.

Yes, but not the entire team just the rusher.
And yes, she is pro in doing it. Problem? b:pleased

Death to all rushers.

StarianNight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just helped with a random bh69 squad, not wined. I was very very frustrated at the squad, the wizzy ran ahead with the sin. The agro went in a circle from wizzy -> sin -> archer and back to the wizzy again, the designated tank (bm) barely ever had the agro. I have warned the team over and over again, let the BM go in first and to control their power output so there will not be agro ping pong. Of course, I was ignored over and over again even after I told the wizzy that i will not heal or rez him again if he decides to charge in before the tank. Finished the run with lots of death, and an extremely annoyed cleric.b:surrender

I just wanted to say to the lower lvled clerics out there who have a nice and kind heart that believe they have to keep someone alive even if their own lives on the line, let the newbs die. If you have warned someone more than 3 times and they still do not listen, don't heal them and laugh as you watch them suicide. b:chuckle In a team, co-operation is needed, the cleric's job is to keep the team alive but only if the team tries their best to make the cleric's job easier. We are not gods, we can't do everything. Understand when you can save someone or when you should just let them die. Remember that we are not there to make up for the mistakes of others.

It's my personal belief that this comes of Fcing too much and at very low levels. They have to rush to keep up in fc and then do the same in every pother instance as well. I have seen it in lots of random squads or PUG's. I felt bad at first too as a newbie, but as my gameplay matured I realized its thier own damn fault. I dont hesistate to leave a squad anymore. As a quester I value my exp too much - I worked damn hard for it.

I toughened up when my cleric was in the 70-79 level range after too many idiot squads. Not just one person, but sometimes up to three or four idiots! Generally I've been lucky enough to get good squads, but if there's a rusher or some other idiot in squad, I generally let them die if they aggro too many mobs without hitting them first. If I heal them anyways, I try to save myself first. Failing that, I just go to town or wait for another cleric to res (if there is one in squad). After encountering so many fail squads before lvl 100, I'm pretty much used to dying. Generally it works out, most people I've squaded with understand that if you don't aggro all mobs, the cleric will not heal. I very rarely leave squads unless 1) they're completely insane or 2) too many too stupid idiots resulting in repeated deaths. Ha... so yeah, I can put up with a lot before I leave, which is very rare.

I actually found people that are willing to go through an UNWINED CLERICLESS BH ABBADON. I'm not joking. I choose to leave that squad because I didn't trust anyone and I just had a bad feeling about it (namely dying just before they killed the bh boss; my cleric can take the punishment... my veno... not so much). I ended up going with a more conventional faction squad with people I trusted, and it went beautifully. Unfortunately, the drama resulted in one of the sins in faction leaving and the barb in said unconventional abba squad telling me "you should learn how to play the game." Yeah... don't get me wrong here - I'm all for unconventional ways of playing through bhs, but there's only so far I'm willing to go.

There was also an EU (Endless Universe) squad I had which only had one cleric, but it wasn't me. (I do not do EU as cleric since he doesn't need the gear.) Yes, I wasn't a cleric in that instance, but I was one at heart and I could understand her pain. The squad wouldn't too bad if not for the fact that they horribly sucked at aggro management, resulting in the cleric dying at least five times (probably more)! b:shocked No mystic or other cleric in squad so she had to go to town. Eventually, the cleric said "enough is enough, if you can't manage aggro, I'm leaving!"

She promptly left squad, resulting in most of my squadmates either condemning her actions or blacklisting her. I pretty much supported her decision (although I didn't say anything in squad chat, I told her in pm) and approved of her leaving. She seriously had more tolerance for fail squads than me... and besides, she was probably only doing to die more on Ghost Wing (3rd boss in EU). We completed the EU run without her... although it was tough since the archers were mostly MIA so the only ranged DD were me and a wizzy. Yes, clerics should have 'tough skin,' but we should also set limits so people don't take advantage of our kindness or continue with their stupidity at our expense.

From my teaming experience I agree with with what the OP says I've seen some classes with a superman complex rushing ahead of me and tank at times, trying to take on 3+ plus mobs and dying then I get blamed for not healing on time. I don't think most ppl who never had a cleric understand just how frustrating and irritating it is when they do that. I don't care for wined or unwined instances just along as they function as a team. I've got enough to worry about babysitting 5 Hp bars on my screen.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its quite simple actually, if you have squad lead (then again though its not hard for a cleric to get squad leader, if someone is annoying your *** in a squad just act all nice to said person once the boss is down to about 10% hp kick said person from the squad.

I had this backfire on the squad once. This was a while ago but I was in a BH69 on my sin, had a barb that only had 8k hp (I had about 5.5k on my sin) and during pyro I unequiped my weapon and got aggro attacking barehanded. He used FR I think twice or something the whole boss and we weren't a quick squad.

Anyways, the cleric insisted "barb is tank" which is why I went barehanded against pyro. Because I wasn't going to get heals and the cleric refused to just bb, even though other squad members were also having trouble managing their aggro from the fail barb. So I said "I can tank pole and nob I just need quicker purify's than the barb would." Sins can't tank, Sins can't tank... So I tanked pole just fine (had purify apos left from my bm, I remember) and just before pole died I got kicked. I got credit, the rest of the squad didn't. That, I blame on the cleric for not working with her squad.

Anyways, I'm pretty straight forward. I tell a person stop. Then I explain why it hurts the squad and warn them. Then I kick. I don't let them get to the boss before I kick or anything. Its just like firing someone, do it when they make the mistake.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had this backfire on the squad once. This was a while ago but I was in a BH69 on my sin, had a barb that only had 8k hp (I had about 5.5k on my sin) and during pyro I unequiped my weapon and got aggro attacking barehanded. He used FR I think twice or something the whole boss and we weren't a quick squad.

Anyways, the cleric insisted "barb is tank" which is why I went barehanded against pyro. Because I wasn't going to get heals and the cleric refused to just bb, even though other squad members were also having trouble managing their aggro from the fail barb. So I said "I can tank pole and nob I just need quicker purify's than the barb would." Sins can't tank, Sins can't tank... So I tanked pole just fine (had purify apos left from my bm, I remember) and just before pole died I got kicked. I got credit, the rest of the squad didn't. That, I blame on the cleric for not working with her squad.

Anyways, I'm pretty straight forward. I tell a person stop. Then I explain why it hurts the squad and warn them. Then I kick. I don't let them get to the boss before I kick or anything. Its just like firing someone, do it when they make the mistake.

Squads like that are just ugh -_-

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

And for that we can thank these forums and the cleric community as whole. When they are constantly being told sin cant tank/etc. Of course they dont think it`s possible. In fact sins are most often the more efficient option to tank and insisting on barb to tank is just failing.

At times I miss WoW, which isnt complicated game by any standard but if healer would there insist on healing tank and not others - The healer would get instant kick from party. Sure raids there are different as there will be set targets for each healer to heal but imo that`s different. Barbs/sins are often seen as egos/divas but if this sort of advice is even given on these forums and agreed to - There really is no competition to the diva class of the game.

Ps. I really should make thread on barb/sin forums of letting clerics die so they learn to not aggro stuff.

I often get aggro and I don't die. It's the matter of how you control your cleric, NOT whenever you get aggro, you HAVE TO be dead. There are many clerics (newbie i think) don't know how to control their char well, so hence they die. But guess what, don't stereotype! Your PS kinda offended me.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please make one in the archer/wizard/psychic/veno/cleric forums about waiting to see me attack a mob before they attack it. You know how often I run by a mob to start a pull and watch the mob get ranged as I run by, so now I have to turn around and hunt it down,aggro, kill, and start over. This is why BHs go 1 mob at a time instead of pulling half the instance.

It also seems if I run up to 3 mobs and have a roar in cd so I aoe then Flesh Ream one of them, whichever two I didn't ream yet will be targeted. I don't blame FCC rushing for people losing their ability to assist attack, it's always been an issue. I just blame dumb people for being dumb.

As a barb that`s not such a problem as it`s with a sin... Barb, ream will have "steady" aggro compared to my sin how I run close, rib strike--> Triple spark just to see that caster pulling aggro and basically wasting half my spark. When this stuff happens in 100+ squads, there really is no excuse for it as everybody should of run with aps tanks enough to know not to hit it till tank has started attacking after spark.

Oh and as I just spark bosses/AoE pulls, that failing has good chance of killing the dumb caster resulting into cleric being forced to ress, which can result into wipe with sin tank on harder bosses. I farm 89s for books & learning patterns to be better tank as sin and I can handle most BH100 bosses solo for a time but really, when I`m only 2.22/2.86 aps, wasting sparks like that just hurts.

SxeChik - Archosaur wrote: »

I often get aggro and I don't die. It's the matter of how you control your sin, NOT whenever you get aggro, you HAVE TO be dead. There are many sins (newbie i think) don't know how to control their char well, so hence they die. But guess what, don't stereotype! Your PS kinda offended me.

Fixed it for ya.

You guys with your stereotypes keep us from running instances efficiently as the inexperienced clerics are too scurred and insist with inefficient sht like barb tanking/etc. When I`m on barb, I tend to just debuff and DD on bosses to let the highest aps tank as it`s the most efficient way to go. Debuffing the boss properly, barb can cut so much off the dmg boss is dealing it`s not even funny. Simply hitting my devour macro when I dual my BHs is like lol how much less dmg is that thing doing now & how much more BP is healing.

And I stand by my post-script. It is completely the same as the cleric "teaching a lesson" for others. Usually I sacrifice my sin in order to save cleric if there is any chance of it happening, instead of just stealthing and living myself. Heck, I even added cleric on my FL to mail extra sage books I dont need as he buffed me once when I could not get p.def buff anywhere else. But I do have problem with the attitude that is lurking in this thread, which is why I made example of treating clerics the same way they are suggesting to treat others.