Weird Refinement Rates

MiniST - Sanctuary
MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
edited March 2012 in General Discussion
Wizard's, Clerics, Seekers, Assassins, Blademasters, Archer, Barbarians and Veno's r9 weapon has g14 refinement rate
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28514
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28515
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28513

Psychics and Mystics's r9 weapon has g16 refinement rate
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28512
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28508

When comparing the magic weapons, the base damage without refines are exactly the same for Wiz, Clerics, and Venos at 1417. For Mystics it's 1411.5 and Psychics, 1416.5.

Sometime, when I turn off all graphics, Archer's r9 weapon shows up as r8. So, what I'm guessing is that they just rewrapped the old r8 weapons for the first 6 classes and called them r9. But this doesn't make any sense since Assassin's and Seekers also have g14 refinement rates.

What I want to say is how lazy can you get with this b:surrender
Post edited by MiniST - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • JackofHearts - Raging Tide
    JackofHearts - Raging Tide Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Some weapons really just have odd refinement.

    Another example would be the warsoul claw vs. Deicide.
    g16 claw: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/20852
    g13 claw: http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/16104

    As you can see, Deicide gets better refining. In fact, all warsoul weapons refines as well as FC gold. And all Lunar weapons refines as well as g15 weapons. It seems that the only weapons that I know of right now that truly refine g16 are the 2 you've mentioned.

    What does this mean? I can only speculate, buy I think that the game was made for end-game gear to be lunar. The devs put in r8 and 9 beforehand, but they wern't obtainable so they didn't really try to meet the scale (that doesn't explain the difference between the 4 new classes though). When warsoul came out, maybe they decided to throw on level 85 refines because you had to be in the 80s to use one. However Nirvana came out and g13 nirvana doesn't refine as well as g13 Lunar, possibly because Lunar is a tougher instance?...or it could be that refinement rates were the last thing on their minds and they slapped on whatever they thought was right. Again, just speculation.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Sometimes I think it has to do with starting damage of a weapon.

    Warsoul has such high initial damage, having it refine like G16 would be ridiculous.

    So does R9.

    Lunar, on the other hand, has lower initial damage.

    Initial damage = Weapons attack values at no refine.

    Basically, they wanted stuff like lunar to be worth it to refine, where G13 Nirvana, since it's easy to get and does a bit more damage, they wanted it to not be 'too much more' once you got it.

    Personally, I feel that they made the right choice. Having R9 MORE powerful would be a mistake. Some people are going to use G13, G15, R8, or even Lunar for endgame gear (I'm'a keep my HS around for purging for giggles).
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Refinement takes into a lot of factors such as base damage, attack levels, attack rate, and other adds on weapons ALONG WITH grade of the item. This is why there is all sorts of inconsistencies with item refines.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    the base damage for r9 magic weapons are pretty much equal except for the distribution. (ex. veno have the highest and lowest attack on r9 weapon)

    The thing i pointed out was that the r9 sphere for psychics and r9 wand for mystics has a higher refinement rate of +1125 at +12 instead of +975 that all the other r9 magic weapons get. 1125 is suppose to be the g16 refinement rate while 975 is the g14 refinement rate. This means, when refined to +12, the psychics and mystics get a +150 more attack on weapon compared to other casters. This turns out to be a 5.79% to 5.9% more overall damage. It's like adding two more sockets to the weapon and sticking sapphire gems in them.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »
    the base damage for r9 magic weapons are pretty much equal except for the distribution. (ex. veno have the highest and lowest attack on r9 weapon)

    The thing i pointed out was that the r9 sphere for psychics and r9 wand for mystics has a higher refinement rate of +1125 at +12 instead of +975 that all the other r9 magic weapons get. 1125 is suppose to be the g16 refinement rate while 975 is the g14 refinement rate. This means, when refined to +12, the psychics and mystics get a +150 more attack on weapon compared to other casters. This turns out to be a 5.79% to 5.9% more overall damage. It's like adding two more sockets to the weapon and sticking sapphire gems in them.

    Was probably an oversight, then. IMO, Veno's should have the better refining weapon... But then, they aren't really gonna do the best damage anyway.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    But psychics having G16 refinement....
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    That's pretty interesting.

    All R9 physical weapons have a smaller bonus than G15 nirv to my knowledge. I don't know of any other exceptions like this when comparing weapon tiers.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That's pretty interesting.

    All R9 physical weapons have a smaller bonus than G15 nirv to my knowledge. I don't know of any other exceptions like this when comparing weapon tiers.

    Could that be it? All R9s that refine G14 refine for p.attack either alone or as well as m.attack. The two R9 weapons that refine G16 are the two that doesn't refine for p.attack in any way? But I wonder why that is, magic DDs are pretty potent in PvP still.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    Could that be it? All R9s that refine G14 refine for p.attack either alone or as well as m.attack. The two R9 weapons that refine G16 are the two that doesn't refine for p.attack in any way? But I wonder why that is, magic DDs are pretty potent in PvP still.

    All mag weapons increase their physical attack with refine as far as I know. These don't?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Kerona - Sanctuary
    Kerona - Sanctuary Posts: 1,771 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I'd like to think it's some sort of lazy way of balancing the classes at R9... This is why in my mind this was done, probably wrong but meh.

    Psychics have no damage amp skill except perhaps Demon Sandburst Blast which is reportedly a negligible amp. Our spike damage solely relies on crit or use of Tide Spirit. Even our 100 Skill "Ultimate" AoE suffers do to our large damage range. How often do we Stone Smasher someone for 5k then hit a normal AoE for 5k a second later. b:surrender

    Mystics lack control skills for 1v1 PK and just in general sorta lack attacks.They can garuntee a crit, which is kinda hax, but if their pet is dead they have no cheap accessible stun like other classes. Demon Thicket has a nice HF proc but I wouldn't call it a reliable amp or debuff. I would say a Mystic can hit hard, expecially with Absorb Soul, but keeping themselves alive is more difficult do to the lack of control skills. So basically 1v1 gameplay seems to break down to "keep self alive and run until I can crit and kill it". Its possible the higher magic attack was meant to boost their healing abilities as well...

    I want to say Venos having the highest spike Mag attack makes sense as they recieve less magic attack per magic point in general. With all their amps and debuffs, in the end it works out and a R9 veno is a scary thing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide Posts: 934 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    All mag weapons increase their physical attack with refine as far as I know. These don't?

    I can speak from personal experience that at least for a psychics R9 weapon, it does indeed refine for both physical and magical attacks. I can't say for the Mystics though.
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I can speak from personal experience that at least for a psychics R9 weapon, it does indeed refine for both physical and magical attacks. I can't say for the Mystics though.

    I've no idea. The only magic weapons I have refined are the magic sword and pataka D:
  • Nymphali - Dreamweaver
    Nymphali - Dreamweaver Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wizard's, Clerics, Seekers, Assassins, Blademasters, Archer, Barbarians and Veno's r9 weapon has g14 refinement rate
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28514
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28515
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28513

    Psychics and Mystics's r9 weapon has g16 refinement rate
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28512
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28508

    When comparing the magic weapons, the base damage without refines are exactly the same for Wiz, Clerics, and Venos at 1417. For Mystics it's 1411.5 and Psychics, 1416.5.

    Sometime, when I turn off all graphics, Archer's r9 weapon shows up as r8. So, what I'm guessing is that they just rewrapped the old r8 weapons for the first 6 classes and called them r9. But this doesn't make any sense since Assassin's and Seekers also have g14 refinement rates.

    What I want to say is how lazy can you get with this b:surrender

    Its All Kay.
    Refining bonus on sins are lower for their insane amounts of critical hit rate and seekers because they're ugly and we fishies don't like them :P

    Edit: I mean, R9 seekers and sins are already the hardest hitting melees, why the **** you want them to hit even harder?
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Its All Kay.
    Refining bonus on sins are lower for their insane amounts of critical hit rate and seekers because they're ugly and we fishies don't like them :P

    Edit: I mean, R9 seekers and sins are already the hardest hitting melees, why the **** you want them to hit even harder?

    This. Venos need higher refine rates on everything. My +5 Glaives of Divinity should automatically change their damage when on my Veno, and change back when on my cleric.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level

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