Nerf this, kill that, 20% accuracy reduction...

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  • Dariboo - Lost City
    Dariboo - Lost City Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »
    I prefer to leave the gear and instances the way they are and just remove the tideborn class. LOL

    True that...to many fishies dump em out of the tank. b:surrender
    Filling the forums with idiocy since 2/2/2012 b:pleased

    Main - lvl 101 R8 Mystic - Dariboo

    Inactive on PWI. I still play PW, just...elsewhere
  • Semis_Inferi - Archosaur
    Semis_Inferi - Archosaur Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    :/ this is pwi after all,if you use cs,you can get the r9 stuff directly....if you dont use cs/dont have enough cs power to get the r9 mats....you can be a steadfast farmer and get the coins to purchase the gold from the AH,and then purchase the r9 stuff
  • RosangeIa - Heavens Tear
    RosangeIa - Heavens Tear Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    I think at this point maybe Wanmei or whoever develops this game, would be more afraid of the backlash that would occur should they ever decide to put a lower cap on APS. I can't say for sure they'd really suffer any consequences other than upsetting a number of people who paid top dollar for the gear. Possibly losing some of the big spenders. I doubt anyone would stand a chance trying to sue them for "taking away" what they spent so much on. It wouldn't be like removing R9 completely. That would be a whole different story.

    If a change like this means possibly lengthening the game's lifespan, wouldn't that overall be more important?

    Even though I too spent quite a lot of time and money on getting my sin to 5.0 I wouldn't be one to cry about it if they lowered it, like I said. I guess I'm a glass half full type of person. I'd see how much potential there'd be to give my Assassin better defensive gear, like a full Nirvana set for instance. Even sins who have purchased R9 could use the full armor set (if they don't already, I really don't know what the norm for that is). Just a small sacrifice in -int could mean much better for not just other classes potentially, but also for the people it affects directly. Maybe healers would actually be needed again, other classes like wizards would be taken into squads for Nirvana (regular Nirvana), etc. If Wanmei had just spent more time considering the consequences of the playerbase being so God damn spoiled with 5.0 APS the game would still have some semblance of balance. They seem to think they "fixed" the balance issues but I only see how much they've broken in the process.

    I don't think Assassins are the problem, I really don't. I just think it's some of the mechanics of the game like -int, that has ultimately made it what it is. It isn't just Assassins that use similar weapons with -int you know. There are those BMs out there too who in some cases I'd be more worried about to be honest.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Here since October 2008 ;)

    Check out my Art Corner:
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1212861
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Even if 5 APS will be nerfed to 3 APS max, exist R9, which must be more powerful than R8 and cost more.
  • Semis_Inferi - Archosaur
    Semis_Inferi - Archosaur Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    RosangeIa - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I think at this point maybe Wanmei or whoever develops this game, would be more afraid of the backlash that would occur should they ever decide to put a lower cap on APS. I can't say for sure they'd really suffer any consequences other than upsetting a number of people who paid top dollar for the gear. Possibly losing some of the big spenders. I doubt anyone would stand a chance trying to sue them for "taking away" what they spent so much on. It wouldn't be like removing R9 completely. That would be a whole different story.

    If a change like this means possibly lengthening the game's lifespan, wouldn't that overall be more important?

    Even though I too spent quite a lot of time and money on getting my sin to 5.0 I wouldn't be one to cry about it if they lowered it, like I said. I guess I'm a glass half full type of person. I'd see how much potential there'd be to give my Assassin better defensive gear, like a full Nirvana set for instance. Even sins who have purchased R9 could use the full armor set (if they don't already, I really don't know what the norm for that is). Just a small sacrifice in -int could mean much better for not just other classes potentially, but also for the people it affects directly. Maybe healers would actually be needed again, other classes like wizards would be taken into squads for Nirvana (regular Nirvana), etc. If Wanmei had just spent more time considering the consequences of the playerbase being so God damn spoiled with 5.0 APS the game would still have some semblance of balance. They seem to think they "fixed" the balance issues but I only see how much they've broken in the process.

    I don't think Assassins are the problem, I really don't. I just think it's some of the mechanics of the game like -int, that has ultimately made it what it is. It isn't just Assassins that use similar weapons with -int you know. There are those BMs out there too who in some cases I'd be more worried about to be honest.

    in short,this image link equals my thoughts on devs not understanding the consequences of 5.0 aps

    http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh165/GardyGrrl/eternal-facepalm-eternal-facepalm-facepalm-captain-pickard-demotivational-poster-1242264259-1.jpg

    a cap of 4 aps would be ok i think.not too much but just enough
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Semis_Inferi - Archosaur wrote: »
    ...

    a cap of 4 aps would be ok i think.not too much but just enough
    It is better than 5 APS which is now.
  • Zalm - Dreamweaver
    Zalm - Dreamweaver Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Semis_Inferi - Archosaur wrote: »
    in short,this image link equals my thoughts on devs not understanding the consequences of 5.0 aps

    http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh165/GardyGrrl/eternal-facepalm-eternal-facepalm-facepalm-captain-pickard-demotivational-poster-1242264259-1.jpg

    a cap of 4 aps would be ok i think.not too much but just enough

    they kinda did give the game a 4.0 aps cap. You seen the nerf? anything that goes over 4.0 gets a -20% accuracy debuff, as well as a -5% damage debuff. Lets do some simple math here. 20%= 1/5. That means you will miss one in every 5 attacks. if you swing 5 times per second (Hence 5.0 aps) and miss once per 5 times, you are effectively hitting 4.0. On top of that, your 4.0 is actually WEAKER than normal 4.0 since it has a -5% damage debuff. This overall means you might as well be at 4.0 and never see past that.
    I don't see people begging for Assassins to come save them.
    I don't see people spamming for BM or Archer buffs in Archosaur.
    I don't see people asking to be revived by Barbs, Seekers, or Psychics.
    You know what I do see?
    'OMG I NEED A CLERIC!'
    'Any clerics nearby that can buff me?'
    'Can you rez me? I need a rez.'
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Easy does not mean cheap.

    The first step : obtain reputation. In the original game desing, you had to farm reputation to raise it. It was not obtainable by any other mean. You had to help others' FB, or farm it in FB 89 yourself (quite a slow process, I tryied it back then...)... That part only should occupy someone for a good period of time.

    Now, all you have to do is buy rep from Cashshop or from other players.

    Much more easy than the first method. Cheap, no. easy, yes.

    Go see how many players have R8 and R9 equipement on the Chinese servers.....


    Zalm - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ...easy to obtain? might I show you this? http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Rank_and_Reputation/RankIX

    Note the area where it breaks down the pricing for Rank gear from Boutique.
    If some of you are to lazy to read...lemme summarize.


    'Total:
    300,000 Reputation (108 Gold)
    19 Medals of Glory (380 Gold)
    205 General Summer's Tokens (1025 Gold)
    1513 Gold'

    That's roughly $1500 real world dollars...this doest not include the fact that you must lvl all the way to 101 to even USE the rank gear. 1500!!! This doesn't sound like its 'easy' to obtain, just for rich **** more likely.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • Semis_Inferi - Archosaur
    Semis_Inferi - Archosaur Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Zalm - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    they kinda did give the game a 4.0 aps cap. You seen the nerf? anything that goes over 4.0 gets a -20% accuracy debuff, as well as a -5% damage debuff. Lets do some simple math here. 20%= 1/5. That means you will miss one in every 5 attacks. if you swing 5 times per second (Hence 5.0 aps) and miss once per 5 times, you are effectively hitting 4.0. On top of that, your 4.0 is actually WEAKER than normal 4.0 since it has a -5% damage debuff. This overall means you might as well be at 4.0 and never see past that.


    :/ the debuff doesnt even seem to exist really..look around you,if there was really a -20% accuracy like you think,there would be alot more qq

    a good rule of mmo physics is,the law of conservation of qq

    any sudden or unexpected game change always has an equal and opposite amount of forum qq
  • Kyrael - Dreamweaver
    Kyrael - Dreamweaver Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Zalm - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    they kinda did give the game a 4.0 aps cap. You seen the nerf? anything that goes over 4.0 gets a -20% accuracy debuff, as well as a -5% damage debuff. Lets do some simple math here. 20%= 1/5. That means you will miss one in every 5 attacks. if you swing 5 times per second (Hence 5.0 aps) and miss once per 5 times, you are effectively hitting 4.0. On top of that, your 4.0 is actually WEAKER than normal 4.0 since it has a -5% damage debuff. This overall means you might as well be at 4.0 and never see past that.

    I don't think you understand how accuracy works in this game...

    A 20% accuracy debuff does not mean that you will miss 20% of the time. It means that your accuracy is reduced by 20%, that number that you see on your character stats screen. And, since accuracy versus evasion is rather... interesting... in this game, you will definitely not be seeing 1/5 hits miss with a small 20% decrease, especially as a dex-based class. A 100 sin should have base accuracy of at least 3.2k. A 20% decrease in that is around 2.5k accuracy. That's still over twice that of a relatively average vit build barb without bloodbath, and they hit more than that usually too.
  • VKnightV - Lost City
    VKnightV - Lost City Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    [
    you have encountered in your duration of play have to be really fail. I mean I know RT is full of people with an aps = God mindset, but even here we have loads of people that can pvp/tw and pve without need 5 aps for everything. And using bramble in a duel doesn't mean ****, DPH...2 shot them during a stun o.O




    well then i do not know what to say as i only meet aps bm sin hm random archers

    all using single weapon lunar claws or nirvana fist

    and omg so many sin like 88% sin population

    hm i think we should rename pwi for sinworldb:shocked
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Kyrael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I don't think you understand how accuracy works in this game...

    A 20% accuracy debuff does not mean that you will miss 20% of the time. It means that your accuracy is reduced by 20%, that number that you see on your character stats screen. And, since accuracy versus evasion is rather... interesting... in this game, you will definitely not be seeing 1/5 hits miss with a small 20% decrease, especially as a dex-based class. A 100 sin should have base accuracy of at least 3.2k. A 20% decrease in that is around 2.5k accuracy. That's still over twice that of a relatively average vit build barb without bloodbath, and they hit more than that usually too.

    Accuracy on my 97 Archer is 4.5k. Accuracy on my 101 sin is 5.1k.

    The stat doesn't change when I go from 3.33 to 4.0, or from 4.0 to 5.0.

    The way that Frankie/genotypist portrayed the 'accuracy nerf', it was to be a 20% accuracy reduction regardless of your accuracy stat.

    With the way that the game calculates accuracy and evasion, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

    Seems like it would hurt APS sins and archers the most, while BM's and Barbs would almost notice no difference.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Accuracy on my 97 Archer is 4.5k. Accuracy on my 101 sin is 5.1k.

    The stat doesn't change when I go from 3.33 to 4.0, or from 4.0 to 5.0.

    The way that Frankie/genotypist portrayed the 'accuracy nerf', it was to be a 20% accuracy reduction regardless of your accuracy stat.

    With the way that the game calculates accuracy and evasion, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

    Seems like it would hurt APS sins and archers the most, while BM's and Barbs would almost notice no difference.

    I see no difference on my archer. I used fists on a boss the other day to test it out (5 APS) and she rarely missed, no more than usual. And she kills as fast as she always has, or at least so close that a difference isn't noticeable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Annalyse (veno) - Melosa (cleric) - Glynneth (archer) - Pickerel (sin)
    Florafang (wiz) - RubixCube (barb) - Laravell (psy) - Diviah (Mystic)
    Torchwood (BM) - Sataea (Seeker) - Wystera (Sin) - Allissere (SB)

    Looking for a mature faction on HT? pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=760842
  • Krarenka - Raging Tide
    Krarenka - Raging Tide Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Mystic_Man - Harshlands wrote: »
    Less I said.

    Unless of course, you have the onslaughts of BLADEmasters and Assassins b!tching and moaning about how they can't roll their faces on the keyboard and kill things, and whiny cashshoppers who sold their spleen on the black market just to get Rank 9.

    But you would whine if you got ANY kind of nurf. If they so much as farted in the direction of APS you people would start going into convulsions....at least, more than you usually do.

    But let's be honest--that's what a majority of the imbalance comes to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it: Aps, Rank 9, FC....not in any particular order.

    So u want to remove everything people spent money to? I'd like to remember you that you can play this game THANKS TO people that spend money in it. Devs, servers etc etc. are not for free, so actually who spends money in here is who lets u playing this game.

    So, if u really hate R9 , don't go PvP. Easy. And if you hate R9 , it must be u can't afford it. Oh well, neither can i .
    What i want to say here is that actually APS is what allows people to farm a bit of money. I know people that started with G13 nirv weapons (5 APS) and farmed their R9 ,either for their sins or for their main.

    Instead of crying about everything like a scummy baby, go farm more.
    If u don't like the game anymore, uninstall.
    Stop suggesting crappy things like "remove tideborn class", when there are people who spent 2 years to get a nab 5 aps g13+10 weapon. Yes, nab. cause u know, it still sucks when fighting R9s.
  • VKnightV - Lost City
    VKnightV - Lost City Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    hell i would gladly lose my r9 if sin and aps and the whole thing died and we hade normal gear back.

    it might make the game mroe fun like it used to


    so what if its tons of money when taking them away will make ppl learn the class
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »
    hell i would gladly lose my r9 if sin and aps and the whole thing died and we hade normal gear back.

    it might make the game mroe fun like it used to


    so what if its tons of money when taking them away will make ppl learn the class

    'Cause I worked for the money I used to get some of my gear, that's why. I worked at grinding for other pieces. I put effort in to leveling my characters, not just buying heads or powerleveling.

    Maybe you have more money than you know what to do with it, or you used your mom's credit card... Not so in my case.

    If they're just gonna take APS away, I want some kind of compensation for it. I don't care if APS isn't the most OP thing in PVE anymore, but if someone spends money, time, or effort to get something, you shouldn't just take it away from them without a second thought.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Another solution to removing APS would be to boost the skills of the older / non-APS classes and the stats of the non-rank equipment.

    And to also boost the mobs/bosses.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    for pvp-ing they should make any sparking while in stealth will reveal sins, like aps isn't op enough --a

    longer cooldown for sparks in the other thread is a good idea.
  • Azizsixer - Raging Tide
    Azizsixer - Raging Tide Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »
    hell i would gladly lose my r9 if sin and aps and the whole thing died and we hade normal gear back.

    it might make the game mroe fun like it used to


    so what if its tons of money when taking them away will make ppl learn the class

    Hmmm...You know this is possible. Allow me to explain how.
    Press the "Windows" key on your keyboard > Computer > Uninstall of change a program > Locate pwi > Uninstall > Go find some other game to play.

    OR

    Option 2 learn to play the game. If you're an R9 barb then go find a good tw faction and have some fun plz.

    I know quite a few r9 barbs who are very pro x.x
    Heck a couple days ago 3 ppl ganked this barb and he just sit there waiting for them to attack him but they couldn't get pass his charm. Yes one of the people was a 5 aps sin a bm and another barb o.O
    36k+ hp and 51 def lvls x.x
  • Malei - Sanctuary
    Malei - Sanctuary Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Rubride - Lost City wrote: »
    Here's a good idea, give some bosses bramble (reflect buff), that'll knock out the APS problem.

    Lol, can I just say holy hell, the QQ that would come from that.

    I've watched Sins and BMs alike kill themselves in Trial 1 in the Earth room because they would just spark/APS the mobs and it'll reflect and blam, dead dead dead. b:laugh

    Got to the point where I was FORCED to drop cleric and get on veno because the one veno in trials couldn't purge quick enough. xD
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ...
    If they're just gonna take APS away, I want some kind of compensation for it. I don't care if APS isn't the most OP thing in PVE anymore, but if someone spends money, time, or effort to get something, you shouldn't just take it away from them without a second thought.

    Let give then compensation to Wizards and casters now because we pay for every item in this game twice to get less than "poor" APS people.

    And if we want something unusual like TM69 cape, for example, we must pay to them AGAIN.

    So, what about compensation for us (casters) ?
  • Deant - Raging Tide
    Deant - Raging Tide Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited March 2012
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    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Let give then compensation to Wizards and casters now because we pay for every item in this game twice to get less than "poor" APS people.

    And if we want something unusual like TM69 cape, for example, we must pay to them AGAIN.

    So, what about compensation for us (casters) ?

    Oh just shutup.. caster nirvana is way more profitable than normal. yes u can do 1-2 times a day only, but i`m 5 aps and i do it zero times a day. cos stupid ppl wait only for x2 to do normal runs. THERE IS SIMPLE SOLUTION. MERGE THE BOTH NIRVANAS, 1/2 PHYS IMUNE BOSSES, 1/2 NORMAL BOSSES. SO THAT WAY HALF OF THE SQUAD MUST BE CASTERS. JUST NEED BRAINS, WHICH PW DEVS LACK. THIS CAN WORK IN TT/LUNAR/WE

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