TT90 Green or Morai 95

Vindis - Dreamweaver · February 2012

So, my barb has finally hit 90. Has a healthy amount of hp (10k standing/13.2k sage tiger) and is now wanting some better armors (he has all 3* 8x gears with +m def/vit/str adds on them). I think on average he has like 10k p def standing and like 12k in Tiger.

So the question, is tt90 what I want to aim for? Or should I just hold out for the morai gear? I ask this because pwcalc is down and I cannot check which is better really for my barb. I am also unsure of the full cost of a full set of TT90 armor. I'm not much of a farmer lol.

Also also, the morai gear is basically free and I am unsure how the warding levels will affect my tankability nor am I sure what the set bonus is on those.

Vicrawr unleveled skill tree atm:
Garotte 1
Penetrate Armor 6
Bestial Onslaught 2
Swell 2
Slam 4
Arma 8
Firestorm 1
Frighten 9

Sage skills:
Tiger Form
Stomp
Alacrity

Also has both 79 skills and the 80 grounding skill.

Frighten and Arma are next to max. Then Penetrate and Slam. I should have everything maxed before 95, unless I blow some coin on Sage BKI if I see it.

To rephrase my question though, tt90 or morai gears? Green LG is also an option I guess

Kalish - Lost City · February 2012

You're going to need the TT90 stuff for 99 gear anyway, may as well get it.

MrSyko - Raging Tide · February 2012

If you do plan on getting TT99 or TT nirv for end game you might as well go for TT90 now. If you want Lunar instead you could get the Morai gear since the Solar Flash gear kinda sucks in my opinion.

Vindis - Dreamweaver · February 2012

My barb is an alt. For now, his gear will be either tt99 or LG gold as his endgame. He isnt going rank. My archer is going LG Vana. So barb would probably also if he ever did, but he wont anytime soon.

So which is better for now?

LG green (with opportunity for LG gold)
tt90 (with opportunity for tt99 gold)
or Morai?

I am not spending heavily on my barb. He is an alt. I don't have a farming toon and most of my coin goes to my archer. But I do play him and want him to be better. He will probably get more use at 100 when I need him to tank nirvy or Delta.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide · February 2012

I did the math a few week ago. Morai's 95 gear is nearly as good as TT99, so its definitely better than TT90.

Don't let the lower vit and visible def bonuses fool you, the warding levels make a difference.

Let me show you:

Hellblaze Plate

PWDB doesn't show the +6 Warding levels. Warding on G12 Morai gear increases at a rate of 0.86% per level. So about 5% increased damage reduction for both physical and magical.

VS

Lionheart Plate

Now, TT99 has an extra 598 pdef., 260 mdef., and 158 HP than the Morai 95 gear.

So with my TT99 chest (plus all my other regular gear) equipped in game I have:

6770 Pdef (63%)

3242 Mdef. (44%)

11733 HP

And when i swap it out for the Morai 95 chest I have:

5956 Pdef. (59%)

2926 Mdef., (42%)

11520 HP

This is standing up, self buffed.

Now if I shift into tiger and compare, the Magic defense remains the same obviously, but the physical defense looks like this:

TT99 plate in tiger : 10501 Pdef. (72%)

14340 HP

Morai 95 Plate in tiger: 9209 Pdef. (69%)

14080 HP

So we use these two equations to figure out what this warding level is really doing for us.

effective health against physical damage = HP * ( 1 + ( 1.2 * ( defense level - attack level ) / 100 ) ) / ( 1 - physical reduction ) / ( 1 - bonus physical reduction )

effective health against magical damage = HP * ( 1 + ( 1.2 * ( defense level - attack level ) / 100 ) ) / ( 1 - magical reduction )

So lets plug in the numbers and solve for standing up, then tiger.

Standing up with TT99: Your effective HP vs Physical damage is 32,691.

Standing up with TT99: You effective HP vs Magical damage is 20,951.

Standing up with Morai 95: Your effective HP vs Physical damage is 30,391.

Standing up with Morai 95: Your effective HP vs Magical damage is 21,053.

Tiger w/TT99: Eff. HP vs Physical damage is 52,798.

Tiger w/TT99: Eff. HP vs Magical damage is 25,607.

Tiger w/Morai 95: Eff. HP vs Physical damage is 49,127

Tiger w/Morai 95: Eff HP vs Magical damage is 25,732.

Now your doing worse in the physical damage dept but staying about the same on magic damage. TT99 is roughly 7% better than the Morai 95 gear. However, the Morai gear is free...TT99 is no where near free...That in itself is a huge deciding factor. Want to pay 100+ mill on a full set of TT99 on an alt for a 7-9% increase in survivability?

Your choice. Also, the G13 (level 100) version of Morai gear out performs TT99, and the G15 (101) version out performs G13 Nirvana in case you were wondering.

Getting the G13 gear is all about luck, but getting the G15 takes nothing more than a handful of dailies everyday for about 2 months and is WAY cheaper than G13 Nirvana, lol. Not to mention, it refines better XD

So my educated answer?

Morai all the way. Forget TT90 all together, **** TT99 when you compare the differences, and farm dailies for 2 months to get the G15 Morai gear at 101.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

Morai is better for 4 levels. It even refines at the same rate as TT99. But...

It's not resellable. Any investment in your Morai gear is not returned once you upgrade gears.
It's only 2 socket.
You need TT90/Lunar for TT99 or Lunar vana.
You will want to invest in TT90 gear from 90-94 anyways. And by invest I mean shard, refine, possible socket.
Level 95-99 is usually almost 100% FCC. You have gear to accomplish that already. I'd be thinking about 100+ gear.

Imo its worth it if you want the best gear for your level, every level, and are willing to dump coin into sharding and refining it. But you kind of seem to be aiming towards "This is an alt, I'm looking for cost efficiency but effectiveness" and to me thats TT90.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Let's not forget that tt99 has Vit and HP bonuses out the ***. XD

Every one of the four armor pieces has +90 HP, and two of them also have +9 Vit. Equipping all four also gives you a set bonus of +15 Vit. So that's 24 Vit and another 270 HP, meaning 678 HP (barb vit-per-level is 17, isn't it? IIRC?). And that's before buffs/gear bonuses. Consider sage tiger form and Lv11 HP buff, throw in a +5% HP necklace, and that's over 1.2k HP, which is fairly significant for a barb.

Don't get me wrong, the g12 Morai gear will certainly hold you over and work more than competently for anything in endgame PVE. But the tt99 is also worth the effort.

Must - Lost City · February 2012

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My barb is an alt. For now, his gear will be either tt99 or LG gold as his endgame. He isnt going rank. My archer is going LG Vana. So barb would probably also if he ever did, but he wont anytime soon.

So which is better for now?

LG green (with opportunity for LG gold)
tt90 (with opportunity for tt99 gold)
or Morai?

I am not spending heavily on my barb. He is an alt. I don't have a farming toon and most of my coin goes to my archer. But I do play him and want him to be better. He will probably get more use at 100 when I need him to tank nirvy or Delta.

Vindis one is free the other is not anyway, on dmg it doesnt really matter since(talking pve only) you barb is a punch bag, if you arte going do to gv get pang gu axe if i was you ill get that axe till 100 then ill see my budget and aim for a better wep....

Lol i thougth it was a wep choice nv waht i said... go tt90 green later on get 99 and even if you dont do it you will alwways have a choice to go aps..

Blaxton - Raging Tide · February 2012

I have to agree with Bobo.

Morai G12 gear is free... TT99 Vit/HP Bonuses are not worth the time and cost differences between the two. It'd cost 80mil+ for just the gold mats for 4 pieces of TT99, if you chipped them.

If you don't want -interval bonuses, G15 Nirvana, to PvP/TW, and if you don't mind doing the dailies for Prestige and Influence, then the Morai gears really are the way to go. You can use the coins saved not getting TT90 to refine the G12 Morai gear, and use the coins saved not getting TT99/Lunar gold to get the G15 armors in the Shroud Order (about 32 mil coins for all 5 pieces, so cheap), and if you start farming Prestige and Influence at 95, you'd probably have enough by the time you hit 101 to get G15 right away granted you have the coins. These gears seem like the perfect sets for an alt that you don't want to invest a lot of extra coins in.

Anyway, TT90 green is a nice set, but maybe the FC gear, which I think is cheaper, might be a decent upgrade from 3* gears that would work as a hold over until 95. Otherwise if what you have is working, then just stick with it.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide · February 2012

Blaxton - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have to agree with Bobo.

Morai G12 gear is free... TT99 Vit/HP Bonuses are not worth the time and cost differences between the two. It'd cost 80mil+ for just the gold mats for 4 pieces of TT99, if you chipped them.

If you don't want -interval bonuses, G15 Nirvana, to PvP/TW, and if you don't mind doing the dailies for Prestige and Influence, then the Morai gears really are the way to go. You can use the coins saved not getting TT90 to refine the G12 Morai gear, and use the coins saved not getting TT99/Lunar gold to get the G15 armors in the Shroud Order (about 32 mil coins for all 5 pieces, so cheap), and if you start farming Prestige and Influence at 95, you'd probably have enough by the time you hit 101 to get G15 right away granted you have the coins. These gears seem like the perfect sets for an alt that you don't want to invest a lot of extra coins in.

Anyway, TT90 green is a nice set, but maybe the FC gear, which I think is cheaper, might be a decent upgrade from 3* gears that would work as a hold over until 95. Otherwise if what you have is working, then just stick with it.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Morai is better for 4 levels. It even refines at the same rate as TT99. But...

It's not resellable. Any investment in your Morai gear is not returned once you upgrade gears.
It's only 2 socket.
You need TT90/Lunar for TT99 or Lunar vana.
You will want to invest in TT90 gear from 90-94 anyways. And by invest I mean shard, refine, possible socket.
Level 95-99 is usually almost 100% FCC. You have gear to accomplish that already. I'd be thinking about 100+ gear.

Imo its worth it if you want the best gear for your level, every level, and are willing to dump coin into sharding and refining it. But you kind of seem to be aiming towards "This is an alt, I'm looking for cost efficiency but effectiveness" and to me thats TT90.

Saku is smart, he will agree with me too eventually. Once pwcalc is updated and everyone can really see, rather than take some guys math for it, people will realize just how good the Morai gear is.

Also, you could always add sockets to the Morai gear, assuming it has a reasonable cost. I havent checked.

Vindis - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Hmm...I will have to check out the Morai gear more when I am able.

Anyone have input on LG armors? I am heavily favoring LG stuff for my archer, but I am not sure how good the HA Gold stuff is.

Ideally I want to be as tanky as possible without going for rank gear, but still having the option to improve eventually if I want to. At the current rate, I may just try the morai gear and then see what is what. But I would still like info on LG stuff since idk alot about that armor yet lol.

I have a +5 Pan Gu Axe btw. And I am thinking of getting the TT90 gold m def neck. I just don't want to invest in tt90 if LG is alot better because it is significantly more obtainable (being easily farmable with my archer and bh) or if I should go the TT route (less farmable for my archer).

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

Just upgraded myself from TT90 star axes (yah yah, outdated axes...) to the Morai Axes. I got a chubby when I saw pwdatabase saying they had 45 warding levels and immediately ran for them but its a typo. The weapons have slaying levels, so its a typo and the axe gives +45 slaying levels. Still, at +4 unsharded they out DD my Star Axes.

Anyways, reason I'm posting is this: In the sin forums we were talking about how slaying levels and attack levels basically multiply each other.

For instance 50 attack levels + 50 more attacks levels = ~200% dmg
but 50 attack levels + 50 slaying levels = ~225% dmg.

This can be applied to barbs more for defense levels. If you already have defense levels you don't gain as much by adding more defense levels but you will gain a bit by combining defense levels and warding levels (well, in PvE). Just something to think about...

Astraea - Raging Tide · February 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just upgraded myself from TT90 star axes (yah yah, outdated axes...) to the Morai Axes. I got a chubby when I saw pwdatabase saying they had 45 warding levels and immediately ran for them but its a typo. The weapons have slaying levels, so its a typo and the axe gives +45 slaying levels. Still, at +4 unsharded they out DD my Star Axes.

Anyways, reason I'm posting is this: In the sin forums we were talking about how slaying levels and attack levels basically multiply each other.

For instance 50 attack levels + 50 more attacks levels = ~200% dmg
but 50 attack levels + 50 slaying levels = ~225% dmg.

This can be applied to barbs more for defense levels. If you already have defense levels you don't gain as much by adding more defense levels but you will gain a bit by combining defense levels and warding levels (well, in PvE). Just something to think about...

seems they do multiply eachother but the actual increase from slaying lvs is bit less that 1% per lv. more like .86% per lv so 45 slaying lv is 39% dmg increase which is still pretty good.
39% from slayer lv * 30% from atk lvs = 1.39*1.3 = 1.807
seems to be the same for warding lvs as 23 warding lvs (full g12 set) gives around 19% dmg reduction

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Weapon related:
I believe that the Morai weapons have the potential to be reliable Armageddon weapons because of the slaying levels.

I currently doing some testing around to judge which weapon is better to drop an Arma-Bomb during massive mob pulls.

Weapon to be tested:
Weapon 1: just some old calamities axes
Weapon 2: Morai G12 lvl95 axes from quest

Testing locations: mostly in RB & OHT 3rd Map.

My theory so far:
Calamities: has 19% chance rate to give out 100% damage increase.
Morai G12: has 100% change rate to give out 38% damage increase.

I think that the choice will come down some personal preference... conclusion is due after testing is done b:bye

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · February 2012

Keep the Morai poleaxe, maybe the helm since a decent helm can be hard to find for a fair price. And spend the rest of your energy getting mats and money for tt99 gold.

Salari - Raging Tide · March 2012

I have just now got to Morai and got the helm and armor. I am not sure if i will put in the coins in to add sockets to them all. Currently I have full ffc gear except orns hat cape and wrists, pushing 18k flat with a misty ring and a made 94 ring with 2x added vit, 17.7k with 2 misty's. It probaly wont be worth the cost, but will see how they are just plain.

Current build -> http://pwcalc.com/c6604cdcb35f4aab
Dream build -> http://pwcalc.com/9817f924bd81857d b:dirtyb:dirty

As long as it will take me to farm/merchant the coins for my dream build I will just quest till 100 and fc if needed as i know the quests will die out eventually. On dream build axes I hope to get GOF or SS but anything would be nice

b:bye

baal1 · March 2012

From lvl 95 - 99 for pve this new armor is awesome. My original setup was for speed of course on a 97 sin. I got the new armor, made it +2 put flawless pdef in it. Got the new free weapon put a perfectAquamarine shard in it.. cheap cheap damage. figured if fist barb gets his wood damage than I can put some on my blade.. just for giggle and see what happens. It outdamaged my weapon (so i made +3) to boost my bp into returning 90 to 489+ hp a hit (yes just got a 489, but usually 90 - 200+ hp). Crit base 29%, 31 with leaf dance. Long story short.. my sin takes very little damage and stays top full on hp.. my charm never ticks unless outnumbered 4 to 1 and thats if i don't use Demonic Eruption.. if i do.. it never ticks. In the end.. for pve at 95 to 99 this new gear rocks. When i get to 99 and put on my 99 APS gear then i would have something different.. but for these levels this new gear makes it rock. full set with daggers.. only energetic robe. put my other stuff away until i getinto my 99.. but don't know if the upper level gear may put that to shame too. won't know until someone gets a full set of the next level and tries it out. So far the new gear only modestly and cheaply refined.. kicks butt. My current APS is 1.33 and the mob are melting in front of this sin, just as fast as with my -10 arms, -05 chest and energetic robe and -5 hook and thorn. Only difference is my charm is not ticking and the heals are better. slower aps, bigger damage, bigger heals, im very pleased with it. That is only for the sin.. i check on my 97 bm and no way in hell.. stick with the tt 90 and aps you get from claws, but my sin kills faster . I been playing since the beginning running 16 characters trying to build 2 or 3 of each. 101 bm 97 bm 101 barb 101 cleric 86 cleric, 98 veno, 86 veno, 97 sin, 81 sin, and the list goes on. forgot to mention. this sin has no other buffs but bp, focus mind, wolfemblem.

Deago - Lost City · March 2012

As a fellow barb i would say grab the TT90 till you hit 95 then get the Morai armour from the quest chain you do when you get there. This way when you get the armour as your doing your dailys from which ever order you chose by the time you hit 101 you will be able to grab the HA armour from the shroud order. (this means you must join shroud). And on the + plus side you can sell your TT90 after you get your gear from the quests.

I would say go Nrvy but as you said this is an alt, i am a 4 aps nrvy barb with vit stones and some killer claws and axes

http://pwcalc.com/c27f69da054b51d7 (claw)
http://pwcalc.com/dffef119905f4ecb (axe yes they are first cast for now)

brideinred · March 2012

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Once pwcalc is updated and everyone can really see, rather than take some guys math for it, people will realize just how good the Morai gear is.

+1

Most people don't use the formulas from pw-wiki to calculate the damage reduction including every aspect. They only see the lower basic stats and jump to conclusions.

When I was asked what is good in my new G13 pants I answered "think of it as a pant with G13 refines and 3 free JoSD in it" to put it short for him. Not 100% accurate but close to it.

TT90 Green or Morai 95

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