5% Crit G15 Nirv fists vs. Revenge proc

mkat
mkat Posts: 74 Arc User
edited March 2012 in Blademaster
Guys I need help, whats the better choice here. Someone said the fists since revenge only adds about 5% to spark so its not very much, and that crit adds about just as much.
Post edited by mkat on

Comments

  • _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver
    _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 753 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    duhu, attack lvl +20 is the way!
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  • mkat
    mkat Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    well yea lol...but fists are already made....dunno about rerolling
  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Revenge adds about 10% damage.


    Edit: It also stacks with trip spark, SoT and the OHT patt buff.
  • mkat
    mkat Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Revenge adds about 10% damage.


    Edit: It also stacks with trip spark, SoT and the OHT patt buff.

    thanks for reply, so then u are saying better off getting the claws? cuz some ppl saying use the fists
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Revenge procs for 50% more weapon dmg, so take your build and pwcalc its dps out with 75 more strength (1/2 weapon damage multiplier = 50% weapon dmg) vs 5% crit for your unsparked dmg. As Tim stated, it's prolly around 12% and gets multiplied in with the 500% dmg of spark for 250% more weapon dmg. Revenge also heals you.

    There are a few ways to look at 5% crit, also. If you already have 25% and are going to 30% thats a dps multiplier of 1.3 vs 1.25 so really only a 4% total dps gain. However, it'd be "proced" all the time because its there from your first attack where Revenge isn't. But Revenge is a single add where 5% would be a 4% unique add and a 1% regular add.

    Ultimately, Revenge is a great bang for your buck. Comparing it to Berserk from fists which is a 100% weapon add but destroys your defenses I'd say its better. Berserk would have more damage output but at the same time make you much more vulnerable for only a little gain and you tend to have to run with cleric buffs to compensate.

    Edit: realized adding 75 str wouldn't change your spark dmg in pwcalc.
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  • Lunnark - Sanctuary
    Lunnark - Sanctuary Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    As Sakubatou stated, revenge gets you 50% more weapon damage (not 5% or 10% how some other users stated) and it lasts for about 8 seconds. I tried to time it, but i just can't get same result over and over again - maybe because of server ping too. With 4 aps + you have a decent chance to keep your proc's buff along with the spark cycles.

    You can take it to pwcalc.com and see for yourself, you get a lot more back from revenge rather than from 5% crit.
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  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    NV fists can't have revenge proc, all previous statements are invalid :D
  • mkat
    mkat Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    NV fists can't have revenge proc, all previous statements are invalid :D

    I clearly meant claws with revenge lol
    Thanks for the replies, will get rid of the fists and go for claws then b:thanks
  • Lunnark - Sanctuary
    Lunnark - Sanctuary Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    NV fists can't have revenge proc, all previous statements are invalid :D

    LMAO I was so cought up around the revenge topic, didn't even realized that the proc does not come with NV Fists.

    PS: Hurrdurr I will PM you on a rather delicate matter regarding NV fist/claw procs and I would really appreciate any insights you have on the subject.
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  • Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver
    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I have revenge on my Nirv claws, it increases TOTAL damage by 6%. When it procs it lasts for 10 seconds, so its pretty much procced at all times. Also, my nirv claws came with +1% crit. So that's ~7% dps compared to 5% crit.

    Also have to remember that when it procs it gives you 5% hp which I'd much rather have even if crit did add more dps.
  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I just ran the numbers for my toon; revenge adds 10.82% damage for me.
  • Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver
    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I wonder if STR has a lot to do with it. I have 300 dex lol
  • Lunnark - Sanctuary
    Lunnark - Sanctuary Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Is 3 days after last post too late to comment again? Anyway...

    I don't see the root of this confusion here. Revenge adds and will always add 50% weapon damage (along with 5% HP regen) - that is simply the formula.
    You guys debate and come up with different numbers (5%, 6%, 10,82% increase) because you only look at the final damage output and overlook - let me stress this again - that revenge is based on your weapon's attack power. So of course some of you with better refined weapons will yield more damage output in the end, but the revenge buff effect is the same for everyone.

    And yes STR plays a role here, because a melee weapon's attack power (except sin's dagger) is modified accordingly to the volume of points you have in STR.
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  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    The formula is nice to have but some people are also interested in what that translates to in terms of real in-game damage. It helps make decisions between berserk/crit/revenge/atk for a unique fist/claw add.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Mastery level and base STR are the only variables which affect how much benefit you receive from revenge. Assuming a demon BM with 350 STR and 75% mastery.

    %increase unsparked = (1+.75+350/150+.5)/(1+.75+350/150) = 12.2%
    %increase demon sparked = (1+.75+350/150+5+.5)/(1+.75+350/150+5) = 5.5%

    Basically no matter what your DPH will be increased by 50% weapon attack.
    The actual increase is of course less since the proc will not be on 100% of the time.
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  • Allynna_ - Dreamweaver
    Allynna_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Another thing to consider, at High APS revenge procs a fair bit, and that 5% HP regen really helps survivability. Assuming a 10% Proc chance, with 5 APS that's 1 proc every other second. With, hmm, 8k HP that's 400 HP every other second healed. Against non [?] bosses that's probably less than 1/4th of what 2% BP is, but still helpful.

    Just saying, as an Archer Revenge on GVs helps to solo TT solo mode, with no need for pots/charms (99% of the time). That's with only 6K HP to, you BM's probably have a lot more.

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