Nerf this, kill that, 20% accuracy reduction...

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · March 2012

Mkay, everyone and their cow has this brilliant plan on how to 'fix' this game.

'remove bloodpaint'

'Cap APS at 2.86'

'1% chance to drop your weapon per hit'

ETC.

Some get pretty insane, some are stupid (like dropping bound items).

So really, as someone who has 2.86, 3.33, 4.0 (sage), and 5.0 characters, as well as casters...

I can say, without a doubt, if Wanmei just went and capped APS at 2.86, I'd quit. Without a thought.

At this point, there's a lot of you that would say 'good, we don't want you here *rageface*', but, is that REALLY good for YOU? If well geared players are going to quit, what's going to happen to your FCC's? I don't sell FCC's, but those people who do will probably give up doing so and quit.

Those Nirvana runs that are so easy to find will suddenly become nearly impossible to find.

Finding help for BH, FB, and other associated difficult things will become difficult.

Making money for your caster alts... Will get much, much harder.

Gold prices will go down. (I know a lot of you will go "YAAAAAY!!!! I CAN BUY GOLD!!!!!!111") And then, the Gold Trading will be empty, because nobody will be charging anymore.

Why? Because something that people worked hard at to achieve, well, some of us worked hard at, was just taken away, and there was no compensation given. Grind, merchant, cash shop, however it was achieved, it was earned somehow (some of us DO work for the money we put into the cash shop).

I like playing TW. Win or lose, as long as it's not a 30 second (exaggerating here, since a lot of you diaper-wearing neanderthals don't understand the concept) roll, it's fun. The 6 month reset is going to increase the fun value of TW. But my sin is 4.0 Sage, and only Nirvana/R8, sharded with Vit Shards, so if APS got nerfed, I'd have to re-do my build, or scrap the character completely. Unlike a lot of others, I never did Goonz, so that was a lot of time, effort, and soloing FCC wasted. I'd simply quit this game, and find something else to do if it happened.

And I'm one of those people who used to put gold into the AH for you other people to buy (not very much, but some).

I'm all for fixing the balance of this game, but it should be done right. Make Casters more OP in PVE, instead of making APS weaker.

PS: If you don't want to read a wall of text, use the 'back' button on your browser, and find another thread.

John_Smith - Harshlands · March 2012

We got on fine before it was discovered. **** you and **** your aps.

Sjuggs - Lost City · March 2012

What really spoils the fun, pvp, is the ridicously damage of r9, aps isnt the great thing now at pking

and... lol pve....

Sagek - Sanctuary · March 2012

So R9 dmg killed pvp and APS killed pve?

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary · March 2012

I always said this,and still say:

- Nerfing its the wrost way to "fix" things

aps its too powerful?,make casters more OP in PvE(Like removing the damage reduction from "?" mobs/bosses or something)

TT its too easy?,make another harder instance with strong equips instead of making actual TT harder.

R9 its too OP?,oh wait,R9 its supposed to be OP b:avoid
(Who the heck would charge 1k+ dollars for it otherwise)

Bun$ - Archosaur · March 2012

YEAH give casters a 1hr cd skill that allows them to cast for 10secs of no channeling e.e lol

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · March 2012

Ignoring that zero-channel powder exists already...

That would make them, oh, about half as good as a 5aps melee for 10s.

Now, zero out casting time too, and we'll talk.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear · March 2012

John_Smith - Harshlands wrote: »

We got on fine before it was discovered. **** you and **** your aps.

No john you are wrong,no one could afford the aps or the rank gear at the time,and then the stuff would cost more than what its worth now.I was here when the game started and have evolved with the coming of the age of this game and you need to do the same,in wich most of you lack the ability to adapt or cant even make a lump sum of coin to save your pathetic pixel lives.

John_Smith - Harshlands · March 2012

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No john you are wrong,no one could afford the aps or the rank gear at the time,and then the stuff would cost more than what its worth now.I was here when the game started and have evolved with the coming of the age of this game and you need to do the same,in wich most of you lack the ability to adapt or cant even make a lump sum of coin to save your pathetic pixel lives.

I get along just fine actually. APS has ruined much of the point of playing, wether you have ridden the wave or not it's made it a mixture of way too easy for those with it and impossibe for those without.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · March 2012

Nerf QQ Threads Now!!! b:chuckle

Olbaze - Sanctuary · March 2012

The thing is, the bosses in the game were obviously not designed for this kind of population.

Looking at how costly a +12 refine or a Garnet Gem would normally be, you tend to realize just how ridiculous our current top gear is. It was probably originally intended that only a handful of people, the kind that farmed 8 hours a day for 3 years and had been with the game since it started, would have +12 refines or Garnet Gems.

With everyone being more powerful than what the game was originally intended for, it's just not going to be able to handle it. That results in things like 5 minute nirvanas or sins soloing things.

But there's very little that can be done to fix it: You can't just bump up the difficulty of everything, because then the people who have the expected lesser gear will not be able to do things and leave the game. You also cannot just add a dungeon that has very difficult bosses that drop epicly: The dungeon won't be ran if it's not equal or better to what we currently have, and if it is, then it fixes nothing: we just got another farmable instance.

A lot of people talk about nerfing APS as the magical solution to every problem. Well let me ask them: What about the R9 barb with 45k+ HP? Or the 2.86 R9 sin who won't even be nerfed? And do you really expect people to just sit with their old gear and accept it? No they won't, they'll start getting the better gear with less -interval and they will actually get more survivability and still have the high DPS that they got. And that's only going to make things progress slower, it won't actually make that 5 aps sin unable to solo FCC: they'll do it, they'll be safer doing it due to having more life and more defenses and more defense levels, it'll just take a bit longer. Still be faster than your Wizard, though.

And really, 2.86 as an APS cap? Don't make me laugh, a 1.82 APS sin has more DPS than most casters. The only difference is that a barb might be able to keep aggro then.

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2012

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Mkay, everyone and their cow has this brilliant plan on how to 'fix' this game.

'remove bloodpaint'

'Cap APS at 2.86'

'1% chance to drop your weapon per hit'

ETC.

Some get pretty insane, some are stupid (like dropping bound items).

So really, as someone who has 2.86, 3.33, 4.0 (sage), and 5.0 characters, as well as casters...

I can say, without a doubt, if Wanmei just went and capped APS at 2.86, I'd quit. Without a thought.

At this point, there's a lot of you that would say 'good, we don't want you here *rageface*', but, is that REALLY good for YOU? If well geared players are going to quit, what's going to happen to your FCC's? I don't sell FCC's, but those people who do will probably give up doing so and quit.

Those Nirvana runs that are so easy to find will suddenly become nearly impossible to find.

Finding help for BH, FB, and other associated difficult things will become difficult.

Making money for your caster alts... Will get much, much harder.

Gold prices will go down. (I know a lot of you will go "YAAAAAY!!!! I CAN BUY GOLD!!!!!!111") And then, the Gold Trading will be empty, because nobody will be charging anymore.

Why? Because something that people worked hard at to achieve, well, some of us worked hard at, was just taken away, and there was no compensation given. Grind, merchant, cash shop, however it was achieved, it was earned somehow (some of us DO work for the money we put into the cash shop).

I like playing TW. Win or lose, as long as it's not a 30 second (exaggerating here, since a lot of you diaper-wearing neanderthals don't understand the concept) roll, it's fun. The 6 month reset is going to increase the fun value of TW. But my sin is 4.0 Sage, and only Nirvana/R8, sharded with Vit Shards, so if APS got nerfed, I'd have to re-do my build, or scrap the character completely. Unlike a lot of others, I never did Goonz, so that was a lot of time, effort, and soloing FCC wasted. I'd simply quit this game, and find something else to do if it happened.

And I'm one of those people who used to put gold into the AH for you other people to buy (not very much, but some).

I'm all for fixing the balance of this game, but it should be done right. Make Casters more OP in PVE, instead of making APS weaker.

PS: If you don't want to read a wall of text, use the 'back' button on your browser, and find another thread.

good cos my barb cant then keep agro its r9 and frankly if aps dies i can more or less get my job back
see i payed tons for my gear and still cant use it cos the greed of aps ppl

so what if you quit good riddance my GEAR is worth 10th more and its useless

so go qq in a corner like us r9 barb wiz and the kind who cant even keep up with aps

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2012

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No john you are wrong,no one could afford the aps or the rank gear at the time,and then the stuff would cost more than what its worth now.I was here when the game started and have evolved with the coming of the age of this game and you need to do the same,in wich most of you lack the ability to adapt or cant even make a lump sum of coin to save your pathetic pixel lives.

and so have i but as you said aps will also eventually be a part of the past nothing last forever and i am one of the one who wait for when it dies

its just as you said evolution

only place wish is 100% aps is nv new place is rainbow and so was trials
and still ppl wana close there eyes to them

just give up its gona die eventually just look at the nerf small but it just started making them less op

get with the new rainbow time or die with them when the time come

gona laugh so hard at the ragequiting ppl

Belzeber - Raging Tide · March 2012

They could just do what they did to TT bosses and apply it to all the bosses. b:chuckle

Go go 5 aps bosses and sleep/stun aoe spams! But seriously, instead of just nerfing ****, why not make a change to the game's bosses themselves? Put more caster only bosses or bosses that require you to do a certain type of elemental damage to it in order to damage it. People would probably just buy elemental pots in that case though... Don't mind me, I'm just trying to think of something useful rather than QQ or make someone flip their **** over it because "it's not fair to me". I don't think every class is meant to do everything but all classes should be able to do all those simple things like farm and whatnot. b:shutup

Personally, I love the new endless universe instance! It makes every class useful in it's own way and if there's anything the devs can do to fix/change the instances to be that way, the game could be interesting again. b:laugh

As for rank 9... If they want to spend a month's rent on their gear, let them. If they wanna pk using that gear, let them. I just find it funny that people would buy rank 9 gear on a PVE server considering that any TT90 gear or higher can pretty much handle any instance ingame. b:laugh Yep...That'd be the only reason why people should get r9- PKing. Besides that, it doesn't seem worth that much unless you're just looking to smack monsters around with your wallet while everyone else is smacking them around with gear they worked on getting. b:bye

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2012

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The thing is, the bosses in the game were obviously not designed for this kind of population.

Looking at how costly a +12 refine or a Garnet Gem would normally be, you tend to realize just how ridiculous our current top gear is. It was probably originally intended that only a handful of people, the kind that farmed 8 hours a day for 3 years and had been with the game since it started, would have +12 refines or Garnet Gems.

With everyone being more powerful than what the game was originally intended for, it's just not going to be able to handle it. That results in things like 5 minute nirvanas or sins soloing things.

But there's very little that can be done to fix it: You can't just bump up the difficulty of everything, because then the people who have the expected lesser gear will not be able to do things and leave the game. You also cannot just add a dungeon that has very difficult bosses that drop epicly: The dungeon won't be ran if it's not equal or better to what we currently have, and if it is, then it fixes nothing: we just got another farmable instance.

A lot of people talk about nerfing APS as the magical solution to every problem. Well let me ask them: What about the R9 barb with 45k+ HP? Or the 2.86 R9 sin who won't even be nerfed? And do you really expect people to just sit with their old gear and accept it? No they won't, they'll start getting the better gear with less -interval and they will actually get more survivability and still have the high DPS that they got. And that's only going to make things progress slower, it won't actually make that 5 aps sin unable to solo FCC: they'll do it, they'll be safer doing it due to having more life and more defenses and more defense levels, it'll just take a bit longer. Still be faster than your Wizard, though.

And really, 2.86 as an APS cap? Don't make me laugh, a 1.82 APS sin has more DPS than most casters. The only difference is that a barb might be able to keep aggro then.

yay i get my job back b:laugh

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear · March 2012

Yeah, it would really suck if people had to, ya know, return to the ways of learning how to play their class, making balanced squads, and using teamwork and friendship to accomplish mutual goals. Those were some of the worst aspects of this game.

Sefiere - Sanctuary · March 2012

R9 is a million times stronger than high aps in both pve and pvp, aps is just more effective DD over time (depends....)

all the nuubs would QQ so much over not being able to buy exp room it's more likely they increase aps to 6.0 instead.

Jadsia - Lost City · March 2012

I prefer to leave the gear and instances the way they are and just remove the tideborn class. LOL

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · March 2012

At this point, there's a lot of you that would say 'good, we don't want you here *rageface*', but, is that REALLY good for YOU? If well geared players are going to quit, what's going to happen to your FCC's? I don't sell FCC's, but those people who do will probably give up doing so and quit.

Those Nirvana runs that are so easy to find will suddenly become nearly impossible to find.

Finding help for BH, FB, and other associated difficult things will become difficult.

oh noes, my FCs! yeah, it would be really impossible to do it instead of buying them

and yeah, the nirvy runs that were so easy to find as caster would disappear

and, most importantly, those really hard BHs and FBs... how will I get help?
I waited so many years to finally be able to get help and do my FB19 with the help of a 5aps sin...

and btw, pwe has already devaluated gear. R8 went from ~1000$ to what, 72$?

on a serious note, yes, 5aps made a lot of stuff more available. but it's jsut like printing money. instead of R8 we have R9, instead of immacs we have gems etc. it's not bad but it's not like it's really required for pve... (seriously, they suggest 1% drop chance per hit? that's crazy rofl)

wdade · March 2012

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah, it would really suck if people had to, ya know, return to the ways of learning how to play their class, making balanced squads, and using teamwork and friendship to accomplish mutual goals. Those were some of the worst aspects of this game.

I like what you did there b:laugh

Nurfed_You - Harshlands · March 2012

i remember when r8 was 3k usd. talk about devalued

Burnout - Harshlands · March 2012

PVE is boring as ****. Who cares what gear you get when it doesn't matter because APS sins can kill you in under 3 seconds no matter what gear you get?

PVE sucks. Now even PVP blows because of sins. So there's no point in doing pve, because the reason we do it (pvp and TW) no longer exist because sins / aps ruined it.

Remove aps, and this game becomes instantly funner. Gold comes down, TW income will actually matter, and pvp will come alive again, and people will spend money again, because TW and pvp matter again.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · March 2012

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

And I'm one of those people who used to put gold into the AH for you other people to buy (not very much, but some).

You sound like you're in the 3rd grade.

"I was gonna invite you to my birthday party until you did that."

And, it's very original of you to QQ about QQing*

*not really

Xainou - Sanctuary · March 2012

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Remove aps, and this game becomes instantly funner. Gold comes down, TW income will actually matter, and pvp will come alive again, and people will spend money again, because TW and pvp matter again.

I don't think so. Even if you killed aps you would still have r9. People that can just oneshot you instead of twitching you dead.

I have to agree with OP. It's too late to go back back now. The 'nerf aps now!!' shouts are usless anyway. Yes, high aps together with epic gears and high refines make the game a joke. But so does r9. That's why I don't PK. The gap in power aquired by big money is way too big.

truekossy · March 2012

While the post shows a large amount of ignorance in and of itself, I have to nitpick at:

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Remove aps, and this game becomes instantly funner.

So how exactly is anyone supposed to auto-attack? Considering even magic weapons have APS....

Mystic_Man - Harshlands · March 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't think so. Even if you killed aps you would still have r9. People that can just oneshot you instead of twitching you dead.

This right here. ^

Remove R9, nurf aps down to 3.00, and cap Fc at 75....you'd be surprised how much less whining there will be.

Ocelote - Lost City · March 2012

Zero channeling time skill maybe for genie and MP recover and - coldown % stat would be nice b:victory pure epicness

Sagek - Sanctuary · March 2012

Mystic_Man - Harshlands wrote: »

This right here. ^

Remove R9, nurf aps down to 3.00, and cap Fc at 75....you'd be surprised how much less whining there will be.

less you say?

Mystic_Man - Harshlands · March 2012

Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »

less you say?

Less I said.

Unless of course, you have the onslaughts of BLADEmasters and Assassins b!tching and moaning about how they can't roll their faces on the keyboard and kill things, and whiny cashshoppers who sold their spleen on the black market just to get Rank 9.

But you would whine if you got ANY kind of nurf. If they so much as farted in the direction of APS you people would start going into convulsions....at least, more than you usually do.

But let's be honest--that's what a majority of the imbalance comes to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it: Aps, Rank 9, FC....not in any particular order.

elorejitas · March 2012

PVE is boring as ****. Who cares what gear you get when it doesn't matter because APS sins can kill you in under 3 seconds no matter what gear you get?

PVE sucks. Now even PVP blows because of sins. So there's no point in doing pve, because the reason we do it (pvp and TW) no longer exist because sins / aps ruined it.

Make your sin and b:shutup

Most of 70% of ppl love sins but noone know that coz they are not here complaining. They are enjoying their chars

Ocelote - Lost City · March 2012

and make BP caster version and regular BP work on archer XD the Psy or the Wiz or the Veno be the one getting this buff well cleric is the one i think fits better XD but ppl say there too few clerics ... well i am lvling mine is lvl 27 now XD

Nerf this, kill that, 20% accuracy reduction...

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