Psychic v. Wizard

/Parallax - Archosaur9 · February 2012

Me and a friend were having a discussion on which class deals the most damage: wizards or psychics. From personal experience, my psychic did a whole lot more damage than my wizard, but then I found this thread:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=95192

of course, it was made two years ago, when tideborns weren't even around, but now I'm not so sure.
I'm not asking which class is better (because that's a matter of opinion) or better in pvp, but which class deals the most damage?

spensen · February 2012

Kerona - Sanctuary · February 2012

Wizard will out damage per hit a psy by a large margin with their debuffs (genie skill spark, undine strike). Without debuffs the damage is more even.

DPS, psy will win out.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wizard will out damage per hit a psy by a large margin with their debuffs (genie skill spark, undine strike). Without debuffs the damage is more even.

DPS, psy will win out.

I don't think so, but i'm not sure I'm right. I think psy do more damage. And we can also use genie skills to amplify damage.
Take this.
Due to +25% from attack level. With high refined weapon + attack from skill + 25% attack level made huge difference.

Stone smasher.
dealing damage based on your attack, plus 400%
gear's magical attack and 10253.1 Earth damage.
Reduces target's attack speed by 30% for 8 seconds.

Sure wizy deal more damage with dragon on first look, but if we add 25% from vodoo situation will be totally different. And with high refined weapon is difference even more. Because +25% is always added on top. Of course if target doesn't have defense levels but even with def. levels wizy will do less damage due def. levels count on him too.

Edit.
BTW. In faction base trial I do wit R8+10 weapon around 550K damage. Critical of course. I'm curious how much wizy do.

TheDendra - Harshlands · February 2012

Wizard deals more damage than psy - However, psy's dmg output is constant and much more efficient whereas wizards depend on chi a lot more, not to mention genies and the few combos they put together for spike damage (which usually results in an overkill). Let's also not forget psys get free fast channeling, att/deff levels, free psy.will to fight phys.classes, etc. Overall psy is a better, faster, stronger version of a wizard - as r8 and r9 we own them.

T_i_m - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Due to +25% from attack level. With high refined weapon + attack from skill + 25% attack level made huge difference.

With full r9 the differences in attack level aren't as critical, unless your target has 100+ def levels. Versus mobs, look at the damage rankings in 1k. Wizzies top psy's for most damage in one hit. On the other hand look at the tiger event results to see that psy's beat wizzies in dps.

TJTLegend - Archosaur · February 2012

edsafkc masdcsdjcmasdfcjjsmb:shutup

Why is this thread made like seriously?
Why is the topic brought up again?

Only a damn fool will think physics do more damage than wizys, obviously wizys win in dph but even then in dps we have sutra and you cant compare our genie spark to blackvoodoo b:pleased u mad?

gotta go nuff said.b:bye

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · February 2012

TJTLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

edsafkc masdcsdjcmasdfcjjsmb:shutup

Why is this thread made like seriously?
Why is the topic brought up again?

Only a damn fool will think physics do more damage than wizys, obviously in dph but even then in dps we have sutra and you cant compare our genie spark to blackvoodoo b:pleased u mad?

gotta go nuff said.b:bye

Sure. But your spark is useless in longer targets, it's has just 20m range.
And about sutra. You miss, that psy has also sutra and it can last 9s + 100% basic attack for 15s.

Daemon_Imp - Lost City · February 2012

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Wizard deals more damage than psy - However, psy's dmg output is constant and much more efficient whereas wizards depend on chi a lot more, not to mention genies and the few combos they put together for spike damage (which usually results in an overkill). Let's also not forget psys get free fast channeling, att/deff levels, free psy.will to fight phys.classes, etc. Overall psy is a better, faster, stronger version of a wizard - as r8 and r9 we own them.

This is pretty much it.

However, there are enough cases for spark not being an "overkill" to see the advantage of a wizard's superior burst damage, for example against josd/mag def shard r9 bms, tanky barbs. Some people call a spark + undine + dpyro 1shot an overkill; I call it guaranteed efficiency.

Overall, the psy is superior in versatility and, perhaps, average dps. Against sins where wizards stand practically no chance against, psychics can even gain the upper hand.

The one big weakness of the wiz is itz heavy dependence on a good genie. However, a good genie unlocks a lot of potential in the wiz. Back to spark example: I think there were calculations somewhere that showed spark + undine amplification of over double the damage of a fire spell on arcane classes. With a crit, thatz kinda like our own GoF b:shocked

I dont think wiz or psy can be better than the other, as each has its own place. Psy can probably be considered superior in 1v1 pvp tho b:surrender

TheDendra - Harshlands · February 2012

I am a fan of wizards/archers usually, however I learned my lesson about class balances in previous games - hence I'm psy, a class that has a moderate edge endgame over virtually all classes (in TW you have no natural enemy as a r9, an archer is a coin flip fight depending on who attacks first and under what circumstances).

As stated above, psy wins in versatility, our sage buffs soul of vengeance, soul of silence and emp.vigor work wonders for cata barbs and our demon buffs turn us into a thistle - I 3shot myself vs demon r9 psy just against his soul of vengeance which hits me for like 2k.

We can also debuff players (diminished vigor) and all of our aoes have some kind of a status effect - be it freeze, stun, reduced accuracy or bleed.

A wizard has just one legit edge over psys - they can hit like a truck for a guaranteed kill. Our spike damage is lower, but it's not low enough to say - wizards hit hard and psys don't.

Another edge some might give to wizards is durability, but that is questionable. While a wizard does have very high phys.def, you can't really say that gives them an edge over psys because they still get eaten alive by sins and such, whereas psys get psychic will, soul of silence and if you are sage, bubble of life+expel combo for another 10+ sec of immunity. Add to that soul of retaliation/soul of stunning and you come to the conclusion a psy is damn hard to kill even though a wizard has higher mag/phys defense values.

Psys are the only caster class that doesn't need high phys.def to be efficient against physical classes. I.e. a r8+7 psy can take out a r9+12 hp sharded archer in rpk - tell me how much OP gear a wizard would need to do the same?

Back to the damage topic - once a wizard does his cute combo, they're done, the show is over. Psys damage output without sparks is higher than wizards - and it's not like psys lack strong combos of their own. Tide spirit allows us to dish out a lot of damage in several seconds and we also have a lvl100 nuke skill.

Based on the way the game works nowadays - a psy deals enough damage per hit to kill similar geared people very efficiently whereas a wizard does an overkill and then kills the next targets slower than the psy. This is the main reason why I prefer psy over a wizard in TW.

Granted, wizards have that capability of wiping out an entire attack force with their spike damage, but the overall versatility on the battlefield goes to psys which can be a pain in the *** in many ways, not just in high damage output.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · February 2012

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

I am a fan of wizards/archers usually, however I learned my lesson about class balances in previous games - hence I'm psy, a class that has a moderate edge endgame over virtually all classes (in TW you have no natural enemy as a r9, an archer is a coin flip fight depending on who attacks first and under what circumstances).

As stated above, psy wins in versatility, our sage buffs soul of vengeance, soul of silence and emp.vigor work wonders for cata barbs and our demon buffs turn us into a thistle - I 3shot myself vs demon r9 psy just against his soul of vengeance which hits me for like 2k.

We can also debuff players (diminished vigor) and all of our aoes have some kind of a status effect - be it freeze, stun, reduced accuracy or bleed.

A wizard has just one legit edge over psys - they can hit like a truck for a guaranteed kill. Our spike damage is lower, but it's not low enough to say - wizards hit hard and psys don't.

Another edge some might give to wizards is durability, but that is questionable. While a wizard does have very high phys.def, you can't really say that gives them an edge over psys because they still get eaten alive by sins and such, whereas psys get psychic will, soul of silence and if you are sage, bubble of life+expel combo for another 10+ sec of immunity. Add to that soul of retaliation/soul of stunning and you come to the conclusion a psy is damn hard to kill even though a wizard has higher mag/phys defense values.

Psys are the only caster class that doesn't need high phys.def to be efficient against physical classes. I.e. a r8+7 psy can take out a r9+12 hp sharded archer in rpk - tell me how much OP gear a wizard would need to do the same?

Back to the damage topic - once a wizard does his cute combo, they're done, the show is over. Psys damage output without sparks is higher than wizards - and it's not like psys lack strong combos of their own. Tide spirit allows us to dish out a lot of damage in several seconds and we also have a lvl100 nuke skill.

Based on the way the game works nowadays - a psy deals enough damage per hit to kill similar geared people very efficiently whereas a wizard does an overkill and then kills the next targets slower than the psy. This is the main reason why I prefer psy over a wizard in TW.

Granted, wizards have that capability of wiping out an entire attack force with their spike damage, but the overall versatility on the battlefield goes to psys which can be a pain in the *** in many ways, not just in high damage output.

Agree. Main reason why I switched was, psy are superior against sin at high refines specially. And I don't regret.

Kerona - Sanctuary · February 2012

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't think so, but i'm not sure I'm right. I think psy do more damage. And we can also use genie skills to amplify damage.
Take this.
Due to +25% from attack level. With high refined weapon + attack from skill + 25% attack level made huge difference.

Stone smasher.
dealing damage based on your attack, plus 400%
gear's magical attack and 10253.1 Earth damage.
Reduces target's attack speed by 30% for 8 seconds.

Sure wizy deal more damage with dragon on first look, but if we add 25% from vodoo situation will be totally different. And with high refined weapon is difference even more. Because +25% is always added on top. Of course if target doesn't have defense levels but even with def. levels wizy will do less damage due def. levels count on him too.

Edit.
BTW. In faction base trial I do wit R8+10 weapon around 550K damage. Critical of course. I'm curious how much wizy do.

You're not right. Please reread what I said. You're forgetting Undine and genie Spark which I explicitly mentioned in my comment. With Spark on a high Dex genie you can reduce a target's fire resistance to literally 0. The skill is broken. I've seen with my own eyes Wizards hit r9+12 full Jades + R8 Wep with def level barbs for 90k+. When you can do that on a Psychic, let me know.

Also, some food for thought:

Wizard R9 Sword - Magical attack 1275-1559 (average 1417)
R9 Soulsphere - Magical attack 1204-1629 (average 1416)

The average of these two weapons is similar, but our peak damage on a sphere is higher, and minimum is much lower. We're capable of emitting higher magic damage (which then goes into the spell's formula), but also capable of let's say.... less than stellar damage.

Daemon_Imp has hit the nail on the head.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're not right. Please reread what I said. You're forgetting Undine and genie Spark which I explicitly mentioned in my comment. With Spark on a high Dex genie you can reduce a target's fire resistance to literally 0. The skill is broken. I've seen with my own eyes Wizards hit r9+12 full Jades + R8 Wep with def level barbs for 90k+. When you can do that on a Psychic, let me know.

Also, some food for thought:

Wizard R9 Sword - Magical attack 1275-1559 (average 1417)
R9 Soulsphere - Magical attack 1204-1629 (average 1416)

The average of these two weapons is similar, but our peak damage on a sphere is higher, and minimum is much lower. We're capable of emitting higher magic damage (which then goes into the spell's formula), but also capable of let's say.... less than stellar damage.

Daemon_Imp has hit the nail on the head.

You are not right. Spark DOESNT's decrease fire res. to 0 never.
https://docs.google.com/a/csu.fullerton.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CN-3hpEJ&pli=1&key=0AhrQ6dHVk9FidGF1Uml1SUNmSjk0OXhYeFFTZ244X3c&hl=en&authkey=CN-3hpEJ#gid=0

Kerona - Sanctuary · February 2012

Oh, I'm sorry. It reduces fire resistance to 6 unbuffed at 90 dex, which is not even the max you can have on a genie. This makes my entire argument invalid.

^ Sarcasm.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry. It reduces fire resistance to 6 unbuffed at 90 dex, which is not even the max you can have on a genie. This makes my entire argument invalid.

^ Sarcasm.

If you didn't say "literally" it would be ok.b:laugh

Kerona - Sanctuary · February 2012

If you didn't nitpick over a whole 6 magic defense points, it wouldn't be an issue. Six is virtually zero where magic defense is confirmed. It's less than a fraction of a percent of magic defense. Again, reading not being your strong point apparently, the chart you yourself posted has a 90 dex genie being used for testing. A 100+ Dex genie would reduce fire resistance another 10+%. So yes, it is possible to obtain 0 fire resistance.

Euzebe - Sanctuary · February 2012

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, some food for thought:

Wizard R9 Sword - Magical attack 1275-1559 (average 1417)
R9 Soulsphere - Magical attack 1204-1629 (average 1416)

The average of these two weapons is similar, but our peak damage on a sphere is higher, and minimum is much lower. We're capable of emitting higher magic damage (which then goes into the spell's formula), but also capable of let's say.... less than stellar damage.

Doesn't affect the overall discussion, but our weapon refines better than wiz's. By +10 refines, our weapons will have both upper and lower ends higher than that of a +10 mage wep.

We can't compete dmg wise though, no two ways about it. We just don't have any debuffs of our own, the 20% on demon sandburst is barely noticeable b:sad

Kerona - Sanctuary · February 2012

Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »

Doesn't affect the overall discussion, but our weapon refines better than wiz's. By +10 refines, our weapons will have both upper and lower ends higher than that of a +10 mage wep.

We can't compete dmg wise though, no two ways about it. We just don't have any debuffs of our own, the 20% on demon sandburst is barely noticeable b:sad

Didn't realize :O
PWCalc needs to get its butt back up b:cry

TJTLegend - Archosaur · February 2012

Mumintroll

Genie spark's 20m range is no problem what so ever (we were given shrink for a reason especially when we are fighting long ranged classes.)But of course going too close might mean certain death but what fail *** wizy goes too close to spark his/her opponent when their opponent has genie energy and apothecary not on cooldown, seriously I've never had a problem with the spark range. Wizys don't need spark to hit harder than physics , they never did its just a MAJOR bonus to give us that umpth.b:laugh

I've read your arguments with other wizys on the forums about which class hits harder(wizys vs physics). Im glad you made your choice but do not fool new physics telling them false information and saying physics hit harder than wizys.

Also about genie spark, my dex genie has 100 dex, combined with my undine, i have brought classes down to 0 fire resistance except from magic classes however magic classes are mostly squishier than melees. Instead of 0 fire resistance ive brought the magic classes fire resistance to about 600 which is unnoticeable.

Dai_Viper - Archosaur · February 2012

Psy all the wayb:laugh

Arctix - Dreamweaver · February 2012

TJTLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Mumintroll

Genie spark's 20m range is no problem what so ever (we were given shrink for a reason especially when we are fighting long ranged classes.)But of course going too close might mean certain death but what fail *** wizy goes too close to spark his/her opponent when their opponent has genie energy and apothecary not on cooldown, seriously I've never had a problem with the spark range. Wizys don't need spark to hit harder than physics , they never did its just a MAJOR bonus to give us that umpth.b:laugh

I've read your arguments with other wizys on the forums about which class hits harder(wizys vs physics). Im glad you made your choice but do not fool new physics telling them false information and saying physics hit harder than wizys.

Also about genie spark, my dex genie has 100 dex, combined with my undine, i have brought classes down to 0 fire resistance except from magic classes however magic classes are mostly squishier than melees. Instead of 0 fire resistance ive brought the magic classes fire resistance to about 600 which is unnoticeable.

Wait phy.. wat? b:chuckle

Westfest - Sanctuary · February 2012

Lol but I think this discussion has been on for more than enough time. There will be wizies who think their class is ftw and same goes for psy ppl. I would say that class is as good as you play it.

TJTLegend - Archosaur · March 2012

LOL Arctix your point is invalid try thinking before you post thankyou b:bye

Leviath_Imp - Lost City · March 2012

wizzies dont follow the laws of physics

we make physics obey us b:laugh

*throws you an upside-down mountain*

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · March 2012

Arctix - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait phy.. wat? b:chuckle

YOU'RE SO STUPID OMG.

You've never been in a 500 level Physics class, it hurts, and it hits really hard..

Changuita - Harshlands · March 2012

The ONLY time a wizard has beat me in pvp is if I'm in a group/event doing something and some random dude *I"M LOOKING AT YOU ROCKETPOWER>.<* decides to do that dropping fire from the sky aoe thing on us all. Yeah. Not cool. Other than that... me... as a psy... I pretty much squish them like bugs.

Psychic v. Wizard

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