Hmm aps nerf..

BoomBastic - Lothranis · February 2012

Attack Speed changes
Once a player surpasses 4.0 attack speed, whether passively or via a buff, they will incur a -5% damage penalty as well as a -20% accuracy penalty.

So.. Does this now mean that 4.0 sparked is better then 5.0 sparked? I mean -5% dmg is not that bad, but taking that in to the calculations of -20% accuracy, and comparing that vs 4 "no nerfed" spark.. Just thinking out-loud here

hmm anybody really good at math? b:laugh

_Nerox_ - Dreamweaver · February 2012

ITS NOT APS NERF b:angry
APS, never was and never will be nerfed.
its a dmg/acc nerf, I could still be 5 aps but I do 19k hits insted of 20k, and the acc is a joke, I have 2x lunar rings with +50% acc on each

BoomBastic - Lothranis · February 2012

Well.. its a nerf ON 5 aps.. so technically its a aps nerf

But yeah you are right.. b:chuckle

TemaIia - Raging Tide · February 2012

accuracy aint the problem here....unless i am mistaken, i see it as losing 5% per hit meaning a continuous drop of 5% over time.....which is BS....

for example hiting a boss for some 10k or close dmg but lets say 10k.....

5/100 *10000 = 500

in other words u lose 500 dmg every hit

5*500 = 2500 dmg....thats the amount of dps u are losing

granted its not a signifcant amount as compared to the normal 50k dmg portrayed by this example
but.....50000-2500=47500 over a 2~3 min period is a serously insane drop in dps

represented by 2500*60(2~3) = 300000~450000....thats the effect of a 5% dmg reduction -_-

300000~450000 is like 10-15% of a nirvy boss' HP....

u know how crazy that 5% dmg reduction really is?

BoomBastic - Lothranis · February 2012

Hmm.. yeah that sounds not so nice.. they should have made this effect just them fishys b:chuckle the worst end of this stick i guess goes to "aps" archers.. I guess that reduction will make it even harder to get spots in nirvy runs for them pew pew peeps..

Leonkiss - Dreamweaver · February 2012

yea this reduction still sucks b:angry why they dont make weaker the bosses too b:laugh

HardToThink - Lost City · February 2012

I love how this almost completely doesn't affect sins lol. 400+ dex 5 aps sins aren't going to be missing much =/

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Knowing how damage usually works it's probably 5% weapon damage instead of overall damage. Anyone care to test?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2012

Leonkiss - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yea this reduction still sucks b:angry why they dont make weaker the bosses too b:laugh

They did. It's called caster Nirvana. Dumbed down, weaker bosses with a higher drop rate.

Of all the times for PW to pick to actually listen to their player base, it has to be to the casters QQing about a PvE advantage that melee have in farming? I think they should make caster skills do less damage in PvP when they're ranged. Seems about the same.

Anyways, they probably didn't fix accuracy glitching and when I have 5-6k accuracy on my BM already and 7k on my Sin it won't make a difference. The very fact that they went out of their way to nerf it to appease QQers, but didn't make it a real nerf shows how PWI doesn't think their is a problem with it. They're just doing it to shut some people up. And to force Sins to buy R9 daggers and be 4.0.

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2012

There is one BM in general claiming there is a noticeable difference in TT3-3.

I find this hard to believe to be honest, I have to echo Saku.

I'll probably go into FF later, and while Im farming nirvy, and see what kind of difference there is. Accuracy and Evasion has always been F'd to the point it doesnt matter, so we'll see.

ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide · February 2012

this is all to make r9 sins shine more >_<

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Well really, if the accuracy thing is a huge issue, I remember 4.0 being practically autospark anyways - and Id just wear my R9 chest, and get Nirvvy Bracers and boots instead of my current setup or something. Who knows, the new gear might make a bigger difference when combined.

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2012

So if my math is correct, there is a difference of 16% DPS between 4.0 and 5.0 with the nerf.

Trying to regear my build at 4.0 without the new PvE gear, I was only able to recover 8% of the DPS.

So unless the accuracy nerf really affects us, or unless the PvE gear can make up the 16%, it's not worth dropping to 4.0.

Please post if anyone else comes up with similar math, or if the accuracy loss is truly noticeable.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver · February 2012

I don't have an interval tome so I can't test this. Can someone post your calc and the amount of phy attack you lose by using Cyclone?

SolomonSeek - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Let's say, for simplicity, that you hit for 10k damage while sparked/5.0. Also for simplicity, the 5% is subtracted from that figure. Lastly, (still going with simplicity here) you can remove/replace part of -interval gear to reduce sparked aps to 4.0 without affecting the figure other than aps. You can now choose between 4 x 10k per sec (40k damage per sec), or 5 x 9.5k per sec (47.5k damage per sec).

Before the flamers start running their mouths, I do acknowledge these are somewhat arbitrary numbers, and make no mention of the accuracy loss (most feel it will be almost negligible anyway); However, I feel they explain the general concept in a way that can be understood easily.

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2012

So lets see here:

evade% = ( target evasion - 1 ) / ( ( 2 * attacker accuracy ) + ( target evasion - 1 ) )

hit% = 1 - evade%

Math I used:
Normal: =1-((Target Evasion-1)/((2*(Attacker Accuracy*0.8))+(Target Evasion-1)))
Nerf: =1-((Target Evasion-1)/((2*(Attacker Accuracy))+(Target Evasion-1)))

So at 4000 Accuracy:

Vanished Ancestor: 353
http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/25598

Normal: 96%
Nerf: 95%

Oceania Master: 83
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/24822

Normal: 99% (98%)
Nerf: 99% (98%)

R9 Archer: 3306
pwcalc.com/8e32d6e5952d68fe (Borrowed Hurrdurr's, was the first one I found)

Normal: 71%
Nerf: 66%

Of note, I couldn't find any TT, FF, or Nirvana bosses with higher than 353 evasion. TT3-3 seems to be in the 130's.

So provided PWDatabase is correct, and I was doing the math correct - big whoop on the 20%.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Does all this really make a difference regarding PVE? cause honestly my BM didnt have that much accuracy to begin with i dont mainly use misty or lunar rings and its not like i really miss so much that it fail's me.

Now during some pk's and dueling is when i change up rings for some accuracy but according to the breakdown posted above 500 damage lost per hit not really anything to me in reference to a BM with close to or about 400 str.

I just asking and commenting from what i been reading really. I not finish the update to test things out myself yet.

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Well we have like 10+ people reporting no difference, and 2 people reporting a difference in general.

So...really until I get home, and if Im not distracted by farming Nirvana enough to make screenshots and tests, couldn't tell ya for sure.

Regardless, 5aps only lost ~4% of gap from 4aps being 16% better damage, and as you can see above, there is a difference of 1% loss in hit % on the best evasion boss I could find in a farming instance.

So, same stuff, different week. 5 APS is king, Barbs are useless save catapullers, Sins are still the best PvE damage dealers. I have yet to hear any "OMG SEEKERS ARE OP WITH THE NEW INCREASE!", so they're still a support class.

TheDan - Sanctuary · February 2012

I saw no difference in my damage/accuracy in random mobs/bosses in the new areas; they might be referring the class balancing to PvP only however.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver · February 2012

k update and dx all done gonna verify my flies then will see how it goes

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2012

So after doing SoT, bunch of mobs in the new zone, testing on some ? high hp mobs, and going into Nirvana for 3 runs, I did a lot of 3.33-4.0 with Cyclone Heel, and 5.0-4.0 (Cyclone Heel overwrite) damage comparisons. I found some old damage calcs from a few weeks ago as well.

In terms of the Damage Reduction:

It looks like the 5% reduction is real, at 4.0 and 5.0. I really wish we could log our damage somehow and parse it.

Damage seemed to drop very slightly (I wouldn't even say 5%...but maybe) from 3.33-4.0.

Damage seemed to stay about the same from 5.0-4.0 while sparked.

In terms of the Accuracy Reduction:

genotypist wrote: »

Hey guys. I wanted to chime in with a clarification.

The APS damage and accuracy reduction is not reflected on your character panel. You will only see an appreciable change by checking your combat log below and above 4.0 APS.

Equip gear to get yourself to 4.0 aps and start attacking. You'll suddenly see a string of 'misses' roughly 20% of the time, on top of any innate miss chance you have. Sorry if this wasn't communicated better, but you will not be able to verify this feature by simply looking at your character screen.

This is completely false.

BH SoT I missed 8 times. Out of at least 1000 hits I saw, although I imagine its way higher than that.

The lowbie quest mobs, there was zero misses on 4 mobs straight with 4.0 and 5.0 Sparked.

The ? Mobs, I fought 20. 5.0 Sparked, 4.0 Sparked, 4.0 Heel. Sparked took only a few seconds to APS down, Heel took maybe 15? seconds. I was only lookin for misses out of the scroll of damage.

2 of the mobs had 1 miss.
2 of the mobs had 2 misses.
16 of the mobs had 0 misses. That's right - ZERO misses on the majority.

Nirvana went as smooth as always. Went with some friends, 2 BMs, a Sin, and a Cleric. Sin and I were 5.0, other BM was 4.0.

Notta. I actually didn't even see a single miss on the first round of Nox, and I was 4.0-5.0 the whole time (Other BM didn't have GS...but will most likely today lol).

Now, speaking with this with my Faction, and them claiming it's just PvP and I said "Who officially said that?" and got crickets, a few of them went out and tested because they are PvP fanatics. I also contacted a few more friends who've done a ton of PvP with APS as well (as I don't) and asked them to check it out.

As math'ed up in the above post (but not in an Adventure Time way), PvP seems to reflect that highly. Several use-APS in PvP BMs noticed a huge difference in misses on multiple classes, even APS BM vs APS BM, and APS BM vs Axe BM.

Summation:

Although I'd love to parse, but cest la vie gotta eyeball what you can.

It looks like the 5% reduction is real, unless I got a bad string every time I paid attention.

The accuracy nerf seems to be just that - an actual accuracy nerf, not a direct hit % nerf.

Hmm aps nerf..

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