PW INTERNATIONAL? no so....

2

Comments

  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited February 2012
    Why would you start a thread on this when there is already a thread on this on the first page of the forum?
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    International in this case just means "foreign". The native version of the game is for China. The foreign version is for the US, though now they have versions for France and Germany.
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    First off, even if they banned everyone but US Americans from playing, it would still be international. Why? Because it involves two nations (china and the united states) working together to provide a product for consumers. International doesn't mean that every country has to be included at all.


    Secondly, there are legal restrictions (in which this company is based off of) in the United States in terms of contests that are completely different than that of other countries. It would be far too much legal undertaking and nigh impossible to make a contest that everyone can enter. The way PWI is running this contest, even people in Alaska, Hawaii, and the US territories are not allowed to participate due to legal restrictions. This is very common with sweepstakes, and I guarantee you that any sweepstakes with a mega-company in your country will most likely be restricted to just people currently residing in your own country as well. For the exact same reason. And it really won't matter if they offer shipping overseas or not.
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  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I would assume he reason is because of International Laws. The rules/laws of each country (in terms of contests) are different and there is no way that PW would be able to work around each and every countries varying laws.

    In terms of the 48 versus 50 State rule, that is just an easy way of writing the rules. It is easier to use the "Contiguous US" in these things due to the cost of getting items to those states. Often even in Hawaii and Alaska normal "sales" do not even apply...Also some state laws interfere.
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I have no idea why you guys think money or in-game prizes will suddenly make sweepstakes laws go away. They wouldn't. There are simply a wide variety of rules that govern sweepstakes and gambling that it would a cost a fortune to hire at the legal aid to properly research all applicable laws. It's nothing personal, and every mega-company in the world does this. In fact, I have NEVER seen a company offer a sweepstakes that was truly worldwide. In fact they aren't even offering the prize to Alaska, Hawaii, US territories or Rhode Island.


    Also, international just means two countries. An English speaking version of it's client all the way on the other side of the globe would qualify as an international version to the Chinese headquarters. International doesn't mean every country.
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    I would assume he reason is because of International Laws. The rules/laws of each country (in terms of contests) are different and there is no way that PW would be able to work around each and every countries varying laws.

    In terms of the 48 versus 50 State rule, that is just an easy way of writing the rules. It is easier to use the "Contiguous US" in these things due to the cost of getting items to those states. Often even in Hawaii and Alaska normal "sales" do not even apply...Also some state laws interfere.

    Yup, Rhode Island has crazy restrictive laws so they can't even hold the contest there either.
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  • ZuziboX - Lost City
    ZuziboX - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have no idea why you guys think money or in-game prizes will suddenly make sweepstakes laws go away. They wouldn't. There are simply a wide variety of rules that govern sweepstakes and gambling that it would a cost a fortune to hire at the legal aid to properly research all applicable laws. It's nothing personal, and every mega-company in the world does this. In fact, I have NEVER seen a company offer a sweepstakes that was truly worldwide. In fact they aren't even offering the prize to Alaska, Hawaii, US territories or Rhode Island.


    Also, international just means two countries. An English speaking version of it's client all the way on the other side of the globe would qualify as an international version to the Chinese headquarters. International doesn't mean every country.


    lmao, if that were true , then how come I get mounts and fashion every year for simply having registered 3 years ago. Getting in-game prize for simply logging on 10 days of the month doesnt seem like a huge difference to me. And that isnt called gambling, the definition of gambling is to take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or benefit for yourself, as far as I know, no one is paying money for this contest. so your reasoning is kind of flawed.

    If you want to talk about what gambling is, a good thing to look at is packs in game, and yet people still buy those, not violating any over the border rules there are they?

    And Im sure between the whole continent of europe, the country of australia , canada and every other country in the world, all the money we all spent on this game pooled together, add up to more then what america gives them as a paycheck, and this is the way that we are thanked for that. EVERYONE should get a chance to win something, even if its not a physical object.
  • ZuziboX - Lost City
    ZuziboX - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    oh and if the game is technically considered international only because of china and usa, then why did they make french and german servers? what you said contradicted what pwi's idea of international is, and defending pwi with your definition is ruled out. ijs. i dont see France and Germany getting a chance at prizes.
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »
    No they can't. It's not that simple. Every country has its own laws that regulate gambling and a sweepstakes, or contest that is a form of gambling or game of chance even is the prize was currency.

    Then selling packs ingame should not be allowed to players outside the US.....
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    karmelia wrote: »
    Then selling packs ingame should not be allowed to players outside the US.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
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  • Tsukyini - Raging Tide
    Tsukyini - Raging Tide Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Bubbles - Lothranis wrote: »
    ohlookit'sthisthreadagain

    American company = american servers = american time = american contests
    American company = european servers = european time =/= european contests

    deal with it

    And this is why we can't have nice things. b:shutup
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  • ZuziboX - Lost City
    ZuziboX - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

    it made perfect sense . troll elsewhere.
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    FerClaw - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I know there are some nasty rules that makes shipping worldwide a hassle.

    Unless you are shipping weird stuff, it's not much of a hassle in most countries of the world.

    A few years ago I sold books and magazines on Ebay, and I shipped stuff to 30+ countries around the world without trouble.

    All you have to do is to fill a form detailing what is inside, the value, to whom you're shipping it. If there are any tax and duties to be paid, the buyer have to pay for them.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    A for those who pretend it's not possible to do, here's the legal entries from a contest that was held by another game company....
    Eligibility (location): Entries will be accepted from legal residents of the United States (excluding the State of Rhode Island, Guam, Puerto Rico, U.S. territories, military installations and commonwealths), Canada (excluding Quebec) and Europe. (Canadian residents will be required to answer an additional mathematical question in order to claim their prize.)

    So, they were able to include Alaska, Canada, Hawaii, and Europe in their contest.....



    And another one from another company that runs free games like PWI, also located in California, that is even less restrictive...
    2. Eligibility: Employees, directors and officers of the Sponsor, its parents, affiliates, subsidiaries, advertising or promotional agencies, and their immediate family members (including spouse, parents and step-parents, siblings, and step-siblings, and children and step-children) and household members (people who share the same residence at least three (3) months out of the year) and/or those living in same household of such employee are not eligible.

    The event is subject to all applicable federal, state, provincial, territorial, municipal, and local laws and regulations and is void where prohibited. Participation constitutes entrant
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • ZuziboX - Lost City
    ZuziboX - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    karmelia wrote: »
    A for those who pretend it's not possible to do, here's the legal entries from a contest that was held by another game company....



    So, they were able to include Alaska, Canada, Hawaii, and Europe in their contest.....



    And another one from another company that runs free games like PWI, also located in California, that is even less restrictive...

    and those games probably make less then pwi, lmao . lets not hear them say its a cost issue
  • AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary
    AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary Posts: 555 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hey, here's an idea, why don't YOU run an international sweepstakes and figure out how expensive it would be to send even a small, inexpensive item to another country to someone who won there.

    or are you just gonna keep pounding your keyboard with your chair and not listen to the actual good information that the forum mods are giving you?

    And no company in recent memory has ever allowed sweepstakes to be legal in RI, that place is... Just stupid.

    Hey here's an idea, try being alittle less condescending for a change, hm ?

    I could care less about the mouse and keyboard, the thing i'm bringing up is that they do want something that's benefitial for -them- but when It comes to they costumers/player base and something doesn't involve a cashshop purchase or insane amount of time/effort but simply playing like many people already do; may it be once a day or once a week it is suddenly too much effort.

    The thing is, The item they are "giving away" is from logitech. Logitech supplies worldwide, it is actually a rather simple thing to do that within the collab with logitech to ask for logitech to go around it's main Organs in every country it's situated (because they do have them) with a simple email.
    "Hey guys, HQ's asking if you can figure out whether or not we can use/give away these 2 items in a sweepstake for a a partical game their in business with. You got 2 weeks to figure it out."


    Never mind the fact that it is possible, i DO understand, i am fully aware of the rules and regulations.
    It still doesn't change the fact that it's somewhat coming across, again, as unfair to some people in other countries who also play this game.

    Who btw are reminded every time they log in that PWI would love nothing more for them to pay for zen but when their giving away something their told: "oh no, you cant have it but while were at it would you like to pay for some zen, with a 20% discount ?"

    I can understand their frustration, that's all.
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  • X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear
    X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,301 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hey, here's an idea, why don't YOU run an international sweepstakes and figure out how expensive it would be to send even a small, inexpensive item to another country to someone who won there

    Not that expensive. I've mailed items back and forth from here in England to America, large items at that. Took my American friend $31 to mail a 2 foot by 6 inch box, including food not available in England inside.

    What's $31 to a multi million dollar company if the item is a keyboard for example. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

    Maybe a sweepstake has different rules for some obscure reason.
  • Pressa - Heavens Tear
    Pressa - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This I must say is a **** argument, one that I might add has been said EVERY TIME PWI holds a sweepstakes. Yes it is entirely possible for PWI to make it work for the entire world but guess what? They know people from other countries play the game but they aren't specifically targeting those countries with their product. If I were to play a Korean game I could say nothing about the prizes only being shipped out only to those in the country because I'm playing a game that I know isn't in my area of the world and I have to deal with it.

    b:cute like they said its international because they include more then one country not because they include every country. As a point of fact they have to spend cash to be able to operate in other countries and until they operate in other countries its likely they won't try to hold contests there.

    The reason they can accept your cash but not send you prizes is because Paypal and visa and game cards are so pervasive. This means no matter what game you play you can use these things to spend your money on them regardless of their country of origin. If these things didn't exist then you probably wouldn't even be able to charge money on this game.
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ZuziboX - Lost City wrote: »
    lmao, if that were true , then how come I get mounts and fashion every year for simply having registered 3 years ago. Getting in-game prize for simply logging on 10 days of the month doesnt seem like a huge difference to me. And that isnt called gambling, the definition of gambling is to take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or benefit for yourself, as far as I know, no one is paying money for this contest. so your reasoning is kind of flawed.

    If you want to talk about what gambling is, a good thing to look at is packs in game, and yet people still buy those, not violating any over the border rules there are they?

    And Im sure between the whole continent of europe, the country of australia , canada and every other country in the world, all the money we all spent on this game pooled together, add up to more then what america gives them as a paycheck, and this is the way that we are thanked for that. EVERYONE should get a chance to win something, even if its not a physical object.


    I didn't say that it was gambling. I said many states (and the I don't mean the kind that serve as the division of different regions of the USA) have strict gambling and sweepstakes (this would qualify as a sweepstakes/contest) laws and for a company to pay to research every single one's laws is too costly and massive and difficult for pretty much any company to want to deal with.


    The 10 hour fashion was not a sweepstakes or contest. It was a an in-game event and everyone who participated got a prize. There is a legal difference.


    An packs aren't gambling. No matter what happens, you get a prize. You might hope for a better one, but everyone who opens one, gets a prize.

    ZuziboX - Lost City wrote: »
    oh and if the game is technically considered international only because of china and usa, then why did they make french and german servers? what you said contradicted what pwi's idea of international is, and defending pwi with your definition is ruled out. ijs. i dont see France and Germany getting a chance at prizes.


    When this game first opened, French and German servers were not a part of it. And therefore have no bearing on the decision to give it is name. They later decided to expand to other parts of the world and to server French and German speakers in Europe. If you noticed though, they have a physical server there with their own gm team. And different daily management and it appears that they can even decide whether or not they want to hold sweepstakes for their customers.

    karmelia wrote: »
    ...


    What about Latin America? What about Asia? What about Australia. PWI would have to consider more than just the eu countries. Just adding the EU doesn't mean that some of your customers aren't going to be excluded. It's not about shipping rates people, it's about legal fees. Holding a contest that includes every last country you do business with is a complex process. It's not the same thing as selling an item.
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  • Nymphali - Dreamweaver
    Nymphali - Dreamweaver Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    You don't understand, International means United-Stadian.

    Of course, because the world is just america. b:victory
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You don't understand, International means United-Stadian.

    Of course, because the world is just america. b:victory


    Country 1+ Country 2= International. That's it. You can say the world series is a misnomer because that implies that it's open to the world, but International just means two or more countries. Somebody could open up a pancake restaurant with a branch on both sides of the border between US and Canada, and it would still be international. Because you're crossing national boundaries to do business.

    In this case

    Country 1=China game. Country 2=US servers. That makes an international game in and of itself. The fact they decided to expand all over is just a sign that PWE has for the moment a profitable enough business model that they can afford to expand. And having tapped the US market they decided to cater to their sizable European player base. As this game has a presence all over the world.
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  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Eccii - Raging Tide wrote: »
    If i remember correctly International always meant Canada and the states...
    Very international, right?

    yup, I would have been mad that they would allowed Alaska to win, but no one in Canada O.o
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  • Savor - Lost City
    Savor - Lost City Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Poor Rhode Island..
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  • _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary
    _Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    It isn't really worth it for them to get deep into import/export laws when giving something away. Many times they end up paying 2 to 3 times what an item is worth to just legally be able to send it to a foreign country. If you notice, many sweepstakes are run only in the country of origin, this isn't something exclusive to PWE.

    Also, the exclusion of Rhode Island is due to its (honestly) **** laws and limits on winning sweepstakes, and the exclusion of Hawaii and Alaska is due to import/export laws. They don't do it because they want to exclude them, they do it because itisn't worth it for them to include them.b:surrender

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  • Vansloten - Lost City
    Vansloten - Lost City Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If you want a keyboard and mouse so bad, go down to your local store and buy one.
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  • J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear
    J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    It isn't really worth it for them to get deep into import/export laws when giving something away. Many times they end up paying 2 to 3 times what an item is worth to just legally be able to send it to a foreign country. If you notice, many sweepstakes are run only in the country of origin, this isn't something exclusive to PWE.

    Also, the exclusion of Rhode Island is due to its (honestly) **** laws and limits on winning sweepstakes, and the exclusion of Hawaii and Alaska is due to import/export laws. They don't do it because they want to exclude them, they do it because it isn't worth it for them to include them.b:surrender

    Bad excuse, very bad excuse.

    PWE does accept money from all ppl from all over the world. And when it is about a free give away, it is not worth it? PWE earns millions of dollars a week, and cannot pay 100 bucks for shipping (import export) ?

    dont come with that poor excuse.

    It is a huge shame for europeans anyways, u set zen prices to 9 euro for 10 gold. When u purchased zen earlier, u had to pay 35-36 euros for 53 gold. now europeans have to pay 45 gold, which is 25 % more money, and you want to tell us it is not worth giving away prices international? but it is easy to steal 25 % money from international ppl? wow just wow, i dearly hope many ppl will boykott this game
  • AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary
    AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary Posts: 555 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It is a huge shame for europeans anyways, u set zen prices to 9 euro for 10 gold. When u purchased zen earlier, u had to pay 35-36 euros for 53 gold. now europeans have to pay 45 gold, which is 25 % more money, and you want to tell us it is not worth giving away prices international? but it is easy to steal 25 % money from international ppl? wow just wow, i dearly hope many ppl will boykott this game

    I'm going to have to correct you on this, Gold/zen Vs. Euro has nothing to do with PW.
    that ratio is not within PW's control.

    It's the fluctuation between value of Euro=Dollar.

    Next to that, Your complaining for having to pay 35-36 to 45 EURO for 50 gold?
    Dude, Your paying in NUMBERS alot LESS than americans are, yet the amount you actually pay in core value is EXACTLY the same as what every other american gets for their dollar.

    The reason you are paying more for your zen is because of economical status europe is in now, seriously though watch some news. =\
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  • Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide Posts: 934 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Bad excuse, very bad excuse.

    PWE does accept money from all ppl from all over the world. And when it is about a free give away, it is not worth it? PWE earns millions of dollars a week, and cannot pay 100 bucks for shipping (import export) ?

    dont come with that poor excuse.

    It is a huge shame for europeans anyways, u set zen prices to 9 euro for 10 gold. When u purchased zen earlier, u had to pay 35-36 euros for 53 gold. now europeans have to pay 45 gold, which is 25 % more money, and you want to tell us it is not worth giving away prices international? but it is easy to steal 25 % money from international ppl? wow just wow, i dearly hope many ppl will boykott this game

    Actually it's YOUR country **** you out of an extra 25% (or whatever the amount is). PWE paid your damn VAT for months until YOUR country flat out refused to allow them to do it anymore.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Actually it's YOUR country **** you out of an extra 25% (or whatever the amount is). PWE paid your damn VAT for months until YOUR country flat out refused to allow them to do it anymore.

    Heh. This.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
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    *Pre RB level
  • J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear
    J_Voorhees - Heavens Tear Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Actually it's YOUR country **** you out of an extra 25% (or whatever the amount is). PWE paid your damn VAT for months until YOUR country flat out refused to allow them to do it anymore.

    no that is not the reason :) swy to dissappoint you. the reason is greed since the european servers opened

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