What happened to Venos?

thelinkwarriorss · February 2012

I'm an old time player who used to play back in 2009/early 2010. Lately i've been feeling nostalgic and decided to start playing PWI again.

One of the things that surprised me the most is what happened to Venos. Back when i used to play it was always the most popular class, but now they're literally nowhere to be seen. No one seems to be recruiting them for instance squads through world chat...and no one's even complaining on the forums that the Hercules/Phoenix pets are OPb:shocked.

So what happened to them? Has there been an update that made them useless and undesirable? What about the legendary herc/phoenix?

Tabbycat - Harshlands · February 2012

Venos are still around, but like you said theyre barely hanging on. If you must know what i think happened was sins. Sins destroyed us. With their aps and high crit rates theyre able to solo things that venos can as well and since they can kill faster than us. Who would most squads choose? A veno who lets her pet tank who unfortunately, even has good mag damage, is the lowest damage dealer in the arcane classes, or a sin who has like 5 aps and can kill a boss faster than u can blink.

I run fc with some of my marshals (who are 5 aps sins) and the only thing i really do for them is amp the boss so they can kill it faster and clear the hallways of mobs. Even tho I can tank the bosses with my herc, all ppl care about lately is lving faster. So in turn they want faster fcs. So take into the account that we are a "soloable" class and that our mag damage is the lowest on the arcane telephone pole, were pretty much unwanted between lvls 80-100. Due to this ive been on my cleric more than my veno.

At lvl 100, were wanted all the time for nirvvys, but ofc, on my server u need rank gear in order to be considered "effective" which in my opinion is total bs. Venos dont need rank in order to be good venos. Hopefully with the new expansion coming out and the new skills for each class, well get a comeback. I really hope so.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Also, 5APS sins (and BMs and barbs to a lesser extent) farming TT and flooding the market with cheap TT mats killed off a good chunk of a veno's potential revenue, and genies being used to lure removed one of the reasons to invite venos to squads.

Gold inflation made hercs and nixes more expensive for non-cash shoppers, and the increase in high level players with very good gear meant that hercs could no longer keep aggro even on [?] bosses, and nixes couldn't kill even arcanes in PVP.

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide · February 2012

POWERLEVELING HAPPENED

Venos are the worst toons to powerlevel, given that our pets do not always level with us side to side. Unlike mystics, whose summons are automatically the same level as them when they call them out, a veno's pet takes time to get xp to level. As grinding became outdated being tooo time consuming, players that roll venos become fewer and fewer. Thye rather see the instant gratification of buying their levels in the game than actually play the game as it was supposed to be played by doing quests.

Playing a good veno is a labor of love nowadays...and I would not have it any other way no matter what built I may end up with b:cute

ZackMystic - Harshlands · February 2012

there need to be more venos, they are really awesome at my lvl range cause of their debuffs and spark transfer help me use cragglord faster, and HF on my bm

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide · February 2012

ZackMystic - Harshlands wrote: »

there need to be more venos, they are really awesome at my lvl range cause of their debuffs and spark transfer help me use cragglord faster, and HF on my bm

b:victory

Itori - Lost City · February 2012

what happend...
probably people who used them for farming or pvp long ago have rerolled by now. Venos tend to be former mains than mains now.Shiny new classes with shiny new skills attracted people who never felt like they really loved whatever class they were playing. I love venos and all but... some of the few people who still play veno kinda suck b:shutup

I hated my veno leveling up, now its my main and I couldn't imagine being "recognized" as any other class. I like my veno even more since I got nix, herc and rank at 100+... its important to at least learn to play a class before spoiling them with uber gear. Sure, maybe those things I have right now are alt material for most people, but how about when you've been taken over a r9 veno before simply cause you're 'skilled'? Simply play the game and level your skills, do some PvE outside of frost or NV and test out new things.

I've met a few venos on my alts, but not very many. Sins are just such a common class its... b:sweat a good veno is welcome in any squad I feel, but on any of my alts I dont like having them telling them what to do cause its just sounds so bossy. I guess I'm an 'elitist' and I know what venos are capable of, so I dont like taking anything less. >.<

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2012

Many things occured as stated above. Besides that, the few Venomancers that play now hardly know how to use their class and its potential so, much like Itori, I sort of avoid (random) Venomancers in squads just to protect myself from being frustrated, annoyed or end up bossing the Venomancer around lol.

Also, many people don't know about the class's potential. One reason is because of all those 'fail' Venomancers out there. Other reason is because they never looked it up, checked it out but only went by what others said. Other reason could be that they may had one but never bothered to use the class to its full potential or learning how to use it in such way that it can be most effective. Last reason, people probably play the Venomancer by letting pet tank and them spamming Venomous Scarab. Then, they get bored and quit. lol

In my opinion, a Venomancer is a great asset for a squad. They can pass chi (I've been through way too many scenarios where Lending Hand was a life saver serously), Bramble buff is really nice for melee classes, Amplify and all the other debuffs, the pet that can kill walkers, guards or be a back up tank, grab aggro from boss (roar ftw!) to save Cleric the last moment, AOE immobilize (I've saved so many poor souls in BH delta with Nova) etc. etc. etc.

Venomancer is still my favourite class by far and it angers me so much when I see used incorrectly.

krisnda · February 2012

We are almost extinct, you can now find us wondering on the outskirts while Mystics run past to give us rez buffs, only to be used up by the sin that should of kill himself when we used bramble guard ><.

But this much is still true:

In my opinion, a Venomancer is a great asset for a squad. They can pass chi (I've been through way too many scenarios where Lending Hand was a life saver serously), Bramble buff is really nice for melee classes, Amplify and all the other debuffs, the pet that can kill walkers, guards or be a back up tank, grab aggro from boss (roar ftw!) to save Cleric the last moment, AOE immobilize (I've saved so many poor souls in BH delta with Nova) etc. etc. etc.

Venomancer is still my favourite class by far and it angers me so much when I see used incorrectly.

Breathe - Lost City · February 2012

WFs have indeed slowly decreased in population, and this is because as stated above, they are not needed. When they are squad, yes it is nice, but it's not necessary. When faced with the choice of a 5.0 sin or a wf, the sin is almost always chosen.

I know the OP is mostly concerned with PVE, I believe the usefulness of wfs in pvp has decreased as well. With the introduction of R9, it seems like you're either getting one shot or one shotting someone. With the exception of full r9 +12 josd, you don't really need a purge to kill someone. It's nice, but not necessary. Of course, this is highly arguable.

I love my class though

Azura - Lost City · February 2012

Like all the people above said:

Back then in the year 2008/2009 venos were the best farming, and best pker character all in one nice package. Those people who used venos back then didn't really like the class, they only liked the money and to show their e-peen in pk. When the game started to change, new ways for farming appeared, and an even easier way to pk too. In those new changes venos were not in the equation at all, and all those who were venos for the money and the easy kills re-rolled.

To make matters worse, people did no appreciate the users left. They didn't see the need for venos anymore, so that people got frustrated and changed characters too.

So, only the most hard dying venos were left in the end. =(

Fortunately for me, I never had to go though that rejecting because I reached 100 before frosted was made a leveling instance. I bought my phoenix and hercules when each of them was 25m each...

There is one place where a veno will always be welcome: Tw & pk, but for that you need to have good gear, which may be hard to get due to the situation most venos have to go though.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · February 2012

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15935781&postcount=15
I hope this help b:victory

Vixter - Harshlands · February 2012

yea i feel veno class has died quite a bit. i personally think they serve a valuable role in parties, but people these days want things done fast aka with aps (its not like havning a veno in your party will make a dungeon run last 8 hours).

but because of peoples ... need for speed, or just uneducated/inexperience of partying with a veno, theyre not wanted in many parties. thus, those venos are playing other classes instead (such as myself - now i only use my veno for personal use, which would be farming - but i admit its still a fun solo class)

tweakz · February 2012

Tabbycat - Harshlands wrote: »

Venos are still around, but like you said theyre barely hanging on. If you must know what i think happened was sins. Sins destroyed us.

They take a lot more investment to be able to solo what veno can.

Who would most squads choose?

Veno is wanted in both nirvanas and welcome in just about any instance. Assassins have a hard time getting into Rebirth.

A veno who lets her pet tank who unfortunately, even has good mag damage, is the lowest damage dealer in the arcane classes, or a sin who has like 5 aps and can kill a boss faster than u can blink.

Veno is far from lowest arcane dmg dealer. We get more dmg boost from eruption than the others, and while our skills hit lighter than some: they hit faster. Also with Amp, Ironwood, reflect; we can contribute more to a squad including survivability for Sins via increased BP return.

So take into the account that we are a "soloable" class and that our mag damage is the lowest on the arcane telephone pole, were pretty much unwanted between lvls 80-100. Due to this ive been on my cleric more than my veno.

Again; not lowest or even on a telephone pole. The only reason venos become unwanted is because 1) stealth runs 2) the over abundance of fail / lazy / worthless venos (which include the ones that don't think Veno are good DD for some strange reason).

_Morigan_ - Harshlands · February 2012

we are only a few these days. But we are still here! Reasons why are mentioned above.

WF is still welcome to squads, if its not a squad of braindead kids.

WF is still a mighty pker, if geared well and used wisely, even our pets are a joke.

WF never dies b:victory

MageMERC - Harshlands · February 2012

I love playing my veno and see the odd other veno here and there on HL. One thing not said is that its not just venos that have died out.

I would say the population of archers, clerics, barbs, wizzies and psychics is also low. I mean, seriously, everywhere you look are sins, bm's and seekers.

I live in hope that I will prove myself useful and be asked along for bh deltas and Nirvana runs in another 30% time (veno - 99 at 73%)

Maybe the landscape will change with the new expansion?

EDIT - 93% - and more people would play venos if ECUDEN made videos and posted them on youtube..... s/he is a pro veno....xD

LadyMaraJade - Sanctuary · February 2012

MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »

everywhere you look are sins, bm's and seekers.

This it soo true after coming bk to pwi after a bit of break all ive seen running around are seeker's sin & bm's
In the starting town U see a few new veno's running around now how many that will stay with it who knows
but in Pwi now its all come down to how fast you can do a run now and in the age of powerlvling it will be hard for venos to keep up and keep their pets lvled has well

Venos will still be around for their amp purge & Aoe skills

(Wc Vana team LF veno with lvl 11 amp ) this ring a bell ??

I love playing on mara she can solo my Parter & mine new toons bhs & fbs plus helpping out with bosses
Oh yes am one of those noobies who loves to Quest and Grind b:dirty

But yes PWI has changed alot from when i took my break i do forsee Venos will become less & less only the die hards and ones who truely love veno will be around

Tabbycat - Harshlands · February 2012

tweakz wrote: »

They take a lot more investment to be able to solo what veno can.

Okay. A 3 aps sin can solo fcs and then sell them, make money and gear themselves up with that money. Also, as previously stated: aps sins have taken over tt's and sells the mats at low prices. So there goes one source of income for venos. Also, as previously stated in my post; most ppl now a days power lvl and cs their way to r9. Bc of the masses of csers, "grinding" has become almost obsolete. Another source of veno income bye bye. Sure sins might take more investment to be able to "solo" what a veno can, but as soon as theyre about 3 aps, a sin can solo just about anything a veno can.
As for the monetary investment: I understand some aps gear can be expensive, but so can a venos gear. Not to mention her pets, the food she needs for said pets, time to lvl the pets to her lvl. And if she chooses: a herc, a nix and rank gear.

A sin, especially if they have a main who has tons of money, can just power lvl, gear themselves up with aps gear or not if they choose (but i havent seen a non aps sin on my sever so yah..), and cs their way to r9/nirvvy.

So in my opinion the veno takes a lot more of investing in.

..welcome in just about any instance... Assassins have a hard time getting into Rebirth.

Venos unfortuantely arent "welcome in just about any instance" as you put it. I cant tell you how many times i got kicked out of fc squads just bc i was a veno. Most of the time on my server i have to grind the money (about 250-300k) for fc boss, heads and mobs. As for the Rebirth squads.. umm what rebirth squads? I hardly see those anymore on my server. Theres barely one a day.

Veno is far from lowest arcane dmg dealer. We get more dmg boost from eruption than the others, and while our skills hit lighter than some: they hit faster. Also with Amp, Ironwood, reflect; we can contribute more to a squad including survivability for Sins via increased BP return.

Umm... Who are you and what you done with tweakz? Last time i checked tweak was a troll who did everything they could to prove everyone wrong. Not to mention criticize them. Any who moving on...

Again; not lowest or even on a telephone pole. The only reason venos become unwanted is because 1) stealth runs 2) the over abundance of fail / lazy / worthless venos (which include the ones that don't think Veno are good DD for some strange reason).

In relation to other mag users, venos damage is lower than other classes. I agree we hit faster. I agree that venos are better assets to squad vs a sin. But unfortunately tweakz, most ppl dont share our same positive views on venos. I was merely responding to the first posters question. I may have got carried away. As i dont particularly like the negative response most ppl have against venos. As to your above reasons I completely agree. I especially agree with reason number two. Cant tell you how many fail power lvling venos are out there. As to your little parenthesis comment, which i hope wasnt directed at me, as previously stated, I was merely responding to 1st posters question and i expressed the reasons that i have been told as to why venos are no longer wanted or needed.

But it seems we are on a similar page as regards to our responses towards the negative comments towards venos. Look forward to once again debating with you b:thanks

Azura - Lost City · February 2012

Tabbycat, I heard using black color is more pro than purple for this forumsb:lipcurlb:sweat

tweakz · February 2012

Tabbycat - Harshlands wrote: »

[COLOR="i'm stupid"]i seriously need to learn to quote properly before fumbling with rude colors and ****

Okay. A 3 aps sin can solo fcs and then sell them, make money and gear themselves up with that money.

My Assassin at 3 aps was **** compared to my Veno.

Also, as previously stated: aps sins have taken over tt's and sells the mats at low prices.

Assassins aren't dominate in TT without a huge investment.

. Also, as previously stated in my post; most ppl now a days power lvl and cs their way to r9. Bc of the masses of csers, "grinding" has become almost obsolete. Another source of veno income bye bye. Sure sins might take more investment to be able to "solo"

troll troll troll. A 3 aps sin isn't going to solo near as well as a Herc veno. You make no sense. Go paint your bath tub or something.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2012

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Back then in the year 2008/2009 venos were the best farming, and best pker character all in one nice package. Those people who used venos back then didn't really like the class, they only liked the money and to show their e-peen in pk. When the game started to change, new ways for farming appeared, and an even easier way to pk too. In those new changes venos were not in the equation at all, and all those who were venos for the money and the easy kills re-rolled.

This right here is so true and this is why venomancers weren't appreciated before as what they truly are. All they ever saw to them was "the best farming class" and the "hax QQbird easy PK class".

Now, FCC powerleveling just brought about many venomancers that don't know how to play this class and chances are, for the older members, still have the mentality of the "lazy farming class" or "easy to play class" to never really bother working with it. Every class is easy duh. It takes work to be good though.

And then we have those people who heard venomancers are wanted in Nirvanas because of Amplify Damage and that's all they ever bothered to learn about the class. Then they give their venomancer some rank 8 gear and think they're pro.

Candeh_Love - Sanctuary · February 2012

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

And then we have those people who heard venomancers are wanted in Nirvanas because of Amplify Damage and that's all they ever bothered to learn about the class.

Heh, would you be surprised if I tell you I've met venos that didn't even amp or purge or do something that is NOT spam attack skills? So yeah, some don't even bother to learn that.xD

*sighs*

Really people, I've been reading through this thread and most of you are right about venos being rare nowadays and it really makes me sad, really.

Venos have so MUCH potential, so much we can do, but then again, you run into venos that don't have fox skills at ALL and you begin understanding why some don't want venos in an instance. Hell, there are people out there who don't know what venos are suppose to do also and all they shout is AMP AMP AMP CHI CHI CHI. So it's not only the new venos that don't know what to do, but also other people playing other classes not having a clue about what a veno is suppose to do. And though, I admit, amp and chi are 2 skills that set us apart, we're not a chi machine. It.Has.A.Cooldown.

Oh and one other thing that pisses me off: Zeal pulling when having a veno in a squad. I srsly headdesk and imagine the Zeal puller burning up in flames, ijs. b:surrender It's so stupid to get close to the mob/boss you want to pull that is SURROUNDED by mobs to Earthflame it when a veno is standing a km behind you with a pet out that can reach the boss. It's so stupid, stupid, stupid

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide · February 2012

tweakz wrote: »

My Assassin at 3 aps was **** compared to my Veno.

Does your sin actually get buffed and bp'd before he goes doing everything? If that is the case that herc veno WILL roll over your 3 aps sinb:chuckle

"Hears chuckling of some sins in the veno forum on this quote''

Pressa - Heavens Tear · February 2012

b:chuckle In tweakz defense (never ever thought I'd say that) There are more die hard venos on HT then other servers it seems. So yes venos being more common on our server leads to us being more accepted. At least in WC squads and most guild I've seen on HT there are just enough venos for a veno a squad. There are those rare few squad that don't already have a veno which are nice to join, though usually people take venos without question on HT.

Honestly though tweakz I can see a fully buffed sin makin a veno ousted pretty fast even at 3.0 (though for the life of me I don't know a 3.0 sin cause of genie skills

) Seriously though have you seen the R8 weapon for other classes? we get 943 - 1750 on our weapon on a cleric its 1077 - 1616.

Its way smaller its 100 less by the time we get to +12 then the clerics and the psy. Though we do have a higher top then every class by 200-300.
All in all I wouldn't say we have the weakest attack but the weakest minimum potential and the highest maximum potential weapons wise. Though the other classes get more attack from their skills then venos do, which is why we get more spark damage.(besides the fact that we don't get channeling either xD)

Riverwell - Archosaur · February 2012

What happened to venos is basically what everyone else has already said. XD However, if you're wanting to play a veno because you like it, you should.

I think in the state of the game as it is venos are extremely underrated. A lot of what I would have to say has been said already in the thread, but I'm just going to put in my two cents and say that I always feel more comfortable with a veno in the squad. They can seriously save people's *****.

And luring. What has happened to it? Sorry I don't want to pay 100k to wine my BH. Honestly (at lest up to my lvl, which anymore isn't too impressive) squads don't take forever if you have a competent squad, even if you all are killing mob by mob. And I've had too many earthflame lures go wrong to completely put my faith in it, so I'll stick with a veno, thanks.

...
I think I kind of went off topic, but oh well.

Point is, some people still love venos and appreciate their role in a squad.

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear · February 2012

nothing happened to them...

there are **** loads of venos on HT. I guess HT apreciate mage classes b:cute more than other servers. People take psy/wizzy to FF too lol. if u are talking 100+ yes venos/wizz/psy are wanted for bh/other things. idky but i think cleric's population have multiplied =.=' cos these past few weeks all the bh squads i've been in have mostly 1-3 clerics lol... not that im complaining when i wc i always take whoever pms me first but these new clerics seems to think 4k hp at 100 is good enough and end up dying ... for some odd reason...

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · February 2012

I think one big issue is going to be that you can powerlevel other classes, but a powerlevelled veno ends up with crappy pets and, well, is rubbish. So there are fewer veno's as the old players leave and few new ones stick with it.

The new level100 pet is, I suggest, aimed squarely at this problem. (Rather than, you know, removing the powerlevellers...)

ZackMystic - Harshlands · February 2012

If any veno on harshlands wants to do bh with me, i always accept them, i always kick the sin in squad to make room for them lol

. Also its nice to not have cleric have to rezz the braindead sin 20 times with them thinking they can tank and double sparking every chance they get...

Itori - Lost City · February 2012

Candeh_Love - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venos have so MUCH potential, so much we can do, but then again, you run into venos that don't have fox skills at ALL and you begin understanding why some don't want venos in an instance. Hell, there are people out there who don't know what venos are suppose to do also and all they shout is AMP AMP AMP CHI CHI CHI. So it's not only the new venos that don't know what to do, but also other people playing other classes not having a clue about what a veno is suppose to do.

Agree mostly, I hate getting told what to do on any class, especially if I know more than the person trying to boss me around... I kinda laugh when someone loses a buff (be it brambles, barb buffs, Cleric buffs, etc.) I'm already casting it by the time some pushy person says "buffs plz"
I dont mind be asked for chi though, as I can not see the person chi bar. Most of the time I just watch for skills that consume sparks and then send, if they dont use cloud eruption.

Candeh_Love - Sanctuary wrote: »

And though, I admit, amp and chi are 2 skills that set us apart, we're not a chi machine. It.Has.A.Cooldown.

I'm a chi machine :O be it PvP or PvE I'm always offering my sparks like candy. xP Though, honestly it only gets better if you are sage/demon with ○crush vigor PLUS have ●/○ Lending Hand, which reduces the cooldown from the very long 60 seconds to a mere 15.

Desdi - Sanctuary · February 2012

Itori - Lost City wrote: »

[..]demon with ○crush vigor (PLUS ○ Lending Hand) which reduces the cooldown from the very long 60 seconds to a mere 15.

I love that combo to bits b:dirty Crush Vigor s one of my very favourite skills and enables me to have a spark ready for the Cleric/whoever 99% of the time.

/offtopic

And, well, yes. On the Nirvanas I've done with my Cleric I've had many venomancers that didn't amp until I told them saying that they forgot to (what?..that's like one of your main jobs?). Not just Nirvana though. BHs, FCCs etc. as well. So frustrating >.<

Azura - Lost City · February 2012

Venos have a lot of potential too in pvp.

I hope I can get a recording of my guild beating "the other guild with rank9s" outnumbered 1:2 and all because we play intelligently, and because they can't stop me from debuffing all the other party.

What happened to Venos?

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