Existing Skill Balancing

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

CC means credit card obviously. Works fine!

In that case... best skill in the game !! b:laugh

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Barb aggro is fine, people. There's nothing wrong with it. If we didn't have all this aps gear, barbs would have no trouble keeping aggro. Fix the gears, not flesh ream.

Disagree on the first point, agree on the last. I was having trouble keeping aggro from a similarly geared, same level bm/wiz/archer long before the flood of aps gear. Putting R8 up against R8, same refines - barbs lose. Look at how many have thrown in the towel and gone aps - that didnt happen because their was a sale on Pan-gus and claws.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All that would accomplish is making it utterly impossible for anyone else to steal aggro at all (which means even fewer people will know how to moderate their damage properly). And knowing our devs, they'd probably **** it up so that only the 5aps people can still steal, making it as pointless as the TT3 buff that was "designed to prevent soloing." >_>

Isn't that the tanks job? Hold aggro? Unless they destroy Roar, barbs can release aggro at will if they want to hand it to someone else (resets aggro to 1).

Red

\looks forward to barbs being useful again

Bubbles - Lothranis wrote: »

I seriously don't see any changes though (from what I seen so far)... I don't know if they mean the regular skills or demon/sage skills or lvl 79/100 skills...

Oh god yes! I can think of a few demon/sage skills that have useless secondary effects that could be changed to match todays situations. (1 mana lost per 2 damage taken for plumeshell perhaps? That would certainly help clerics against aps, my 10k mana can absorb 20k damage then)

I would like my demon revive to return people to 100% hp as well. Oh oh and Wellspring actually do something aside from giving 1 extra chi per cast.

Above all else. I want to turn into a bird! Give us winged elves some transformations dammit! I WANT MY BIRD POWER!!! I WANT MY AIR ONLY SKILLS THAT ALLOW US TO RULE THE SKIES!!!

(End greedy rant)

Bezdna - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sounds too much like a veno to be cool. Very uncool, considering that the new cleric skills pretty much function like fox form anyway from what it sounds like. b:angry

Considering barbs have their own transformation and both assassins plus psys can turn into mermaids, I don't really see the big deal with elves having their own. Not like we are Humans lol.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Considering barbs have their own transformation and both assassins plus psys can turn into mermaids, I don't really see the big deal with elves having their own. Not like we are Humans lol.

Then what, turn the EarthGuard into trees?

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Then what, turn the EarthGuard into trees?

No, turn them into extremely cuty, fuzzy moles capable of stealth. Stealth because you can't actually make them dig underground, so it's an equivalent measure. Of course, they can transfer to and from this mode as they wish, in and out of combat.

b:cute

LyuKang - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wonder if skills that people almost never uses will get those changes (like BM sword skills, which would be great)

I would love to see them make swords more usable again. I remember when I started out I was a pure sword BM...those were the good days when you could be a pure weapon class BM b:pleased

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Absolute domain not being an aoe anymore. Barbs aggro being increased. All I can think of specifically.

At first I was kind of happy to hear this. But upon further thinking, what will this accomplish at this point?

Increasing the aggro of a barb is all fine and dandy now, but what's the point if DD"s can still tank without any issues?

People would still prefer another aps character in place of the tank barb. They can manage just as well and even kill things faster.

The only way I see a barb regaining their role as a tank, is to remove the ability for other classes to tank. In other words, make it where other classes can't handle the constant damage.

And then you have to do something that will make all the barbs who switched to aps want to switch back to a pure tank build.

Don't get me wrong, increasing aggro is a great start. But for us to regain our role as tank, we will have to be desired in squads as a tank again, and we will have to be convinced it's better for us than an aps build.

Am I one of the rare that still uses once in a while demon MSS ?

During a bh or something, if cleric doesn't get in BB, it IS a 50% damage reduction, + chance to stun O.o

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

Am I one of the rare that still uses once in a while demon MSS ?

During a bh or something, if cleric doesn't get in BB, it IS a 50% damage reduction, + chance to stun O.o

I still use that skill. I use mainly when I know how powerful a boss may be so I can help out the squad or tank. I love it really and best of all its the strongest BM skill we have, and I think it still looks pretty badass.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would it matter if a DD is able to tank? What's so horrible about that? I sure as hell don't want to go back to the days when TT mats were split so that barb and cleric got first pick because they were perceived as necessary, then the person who subbed the run, which could be either the barb or the cleric anyway and finally, the DDs in order of level. The reason I never bothered to do any TTs for mats was exactly because I knew that on my 7x-8x Archer, I'd only get the crappiest of drops.

Also, I think you're forgetting the important part: If a barb can keep aggro without going claws, then vita barbs, sage barbs and tiger form barbs will actually have some use again. For example, BH Metal would be a cakewalk because the barb has a much easier time surviving with their 10k+ HP than, say, my Assassin with his 6.5k hp.

Though, the problematic portion would be that DDs would get away with more: Since the barbs would be able to always hold aggro, you'd see a lot more of those 5.0 +10 BMs and Sins who have like +2 refines in their armors and would die just about instantly if they were able to get aggro.

Also, I personally switched from Archer to Assassin because I thought my Archer was too squishy. I spent my days wondering as to why the heck did I ever make a DD if I have to afk at the start of every boss because if I don't, I die. I also was very reluctant to upgrade my gear because I knew that if I got a better weapon, I'd have to get much more HP because I'd get the aggro quicker and thus most likely spend more time dying.

Most MMORPG's I have played always lean towards the tank getting first pick of loot in some manner. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In the example you gave, I don't. Without DD's everything goes so much slower, so they are just as necessary IMO.

I didn't forget, or overlook, that point. As you said yourself, those barbs will have "Some" use again. So they are needed for some things, and left out of others. That's a start in the right direction I guess, but it isn't a whole lot. A large portion of barbs already went the path of aps. We lose nothing and gain another niche. So only a few vit build barbs remain, in comparison.

I personally don't see the problem in encouraging DD's to focus more on increasing their DD capabilities first and their survival capabilities second. That's their role, deal damage.

But if a pure DD class, like a sin, can tank just as well as a tank class in most caves, why not just bring the DD and benefit from more damage as well? That's the mentality of most in this game. And as such, unless a tank class is absolutely necessary to complete a cave, a DD capable of tanking will be sought after first.

It doesn't matter if they increase aggro for barbs. It doesn't restore them to their glory as a tank, because they still won't be desired over an extra aps character.

If they really want barbs to tank again, remove DD's ability to handle damage intake. They were designed to optimize damage, not take it. As long as a DD is capable of handling the damage, barbs won't become tanks again.

You said it yourself, your desire for a barb to tank in BH Metal exists because your sin can't handle the damage there as well as it can in other places. Apply that concept to the entire game and barbs will be tanks again.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would it matter if a DD is able to tank? What's so horrible about that? I sure as hell don't want to go back to the days when TT mats were split so that barb and cleric got first pick because they were perceived as necessary, then the person who subbed the run, which could be either the barb or the cleric anyway and finally, the DDs in order of level. The reason I never bothered to do any TTs for mats was exactly because I knew that on my 7x-8x Archer, I'd only get the crappiest of drops.

^ This so hard lol. I did like 2 or 3, and when a cleric and barb I knew took all the mats I needed for my 70 pants, I didn't bother to ever again except to help with cultis

I am an archer main, with a barb alt atm.

Archer perspective: I would love to see more need for barbs. I normally run instances with my Wizzy brother and nothing can really keep AoE aggro like a barb (aside from maybe one of us or a seeker lol). I think that single target dps is mostly ok, I don't often notice I have it from barbs, but then again everything dies in a few seconds at end game, aps classes or not. It is worrisome that there may be DDs with lower refines/gear, but people can easily fix this by telling them to get the gear, or just flat out kicking them. It is really that simple, since there are enough well refined/geared players out there to run each instance (running low BHs with pro alt friends/randoms is alot of fun)


Barb perspective: And some things really are impossible to keep aggro from. Black Voodoo Jones Psys come to mind starting in BH59 and upward. Pure dex archers/sins is abit difficult, but managable and still in your own control. You can always let them die and tell them to manage aggro b:cute. Atm, AoE aggro seems pretty well off, though a single roar isn't enough to keep aggro from a 5+ lvls higher BV Psy AoE, then again I only run with people with comparable gears for the most part, if someones gear is bad, I tell them. Refining to +5 is basically free.

Spark will have a longer cooldown

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The original post I made as well as this one your quoted does not refer to the new Metal Mage skill we are getting. (Please stop saying that people! DD mode is much faster to type, and it makes no sense since we are still considered mages without the skill, we use metal, geez!)

I wanted an actual transformation, that change the way we look, like the untamed and tideborns. Since we are winged elves it make sense that we would have a form that give us air only abilities. Personally I would enjoy the form of an Eagle vs any other birds.

Also to give my 2 cents on the new DD mode. I know its not very powerful, even at the 100% range it would be weaker then a one spark (Assuming the description isn't changed when we get it.) But think of it this way, when a cleric has enough hp and gear to the point where they would not need to heal consently, couldn't we just do what every other non healing classes do? Tank with charms and crab meat. (What did you mean some of our blessings?)

Lets not forget some of the skills we have available to use if what I stated above is the case. Soul burn that may or may not be worth using, a debuff to increase our chance to crit by 15% (Allowing us to do more overall damage then a wizard) and some other **** I don't feel like looking up. It's not what you got, it's how you use it. (We got shafted, but we are clerics, we are adaptable)

Why can't we just call it MMM? (Metal Mari...I mean Mage Mode)I like that better, it sounds delicious.