5.0 sage G15 sin.

Fishblade - Sanctuary
Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Assassin
I don't know if there is any others, im G15 with sac strike and -0.5 x2 on daggers, is there any other 5.0 sages in any servers? Im just saying, being 5.0 sage is epic with G15. b:cute
Post edited by Fishblade - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I don't know if there is any others, im G15 with sac strike and -0.5 x2 on daggers, is there any other 5.0 sages in any servers? Im just saying, being 5.0 sage is epic with G15. b:cute

    You're only going to be 5.0 with Windshield. Or recast R8.

    As for others? Every single Sage sin that has all -interval pieces and a G13 dagger. Personally I'm a tome short.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You're only going to be 5.0 with Windshield. Or recast R8.

    As for others? Every single Sage sin that has all -interval pieces and a G13 dagger. Personally I'm a tome short.

    Yeah i've got a genie for spamming Windshield. I am 5.0 with it. So im guessing there is no one else with it.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You're only going to be 5.0 with Windshield. Or recast R8.

    As for others? Every single Sage sin that has all -interval pieces and a G13 dagger. Personally I'm a tome short.

    Still 5.0 windshield or not. If he said 5.0 base then I'd have some questions. MagysGurl on dreamweaver is 4.0 G15 5.0 windshield sage.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Still 5.0 windshield or not. If he said 5.0 base then I'd have some questions. MagysGurl on dreamweaver is 4.0 G15 5.0 windshield sage.

    Nope, im not 5.0 base, im 4.0 base and damn, thought i was the first at this :(.
    Does she have Gof/SS or what main stat?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yeah i've got a genie for spamming Windshield. I am 5.0 with it. So im guessing there is no one else with it.

    ... It's not "uncommon", it's the Sages that are uncommon.

    If you're only talking about gear, there's countless sins who have 4.0 base. Most of them do it with G13 Nirvana though.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If youre spamming windshield on your genie you cancel out your sage damage reduction. Meanwhile a demon sin is spamming frenzy and getting much higher DPS.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
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  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ... It's not "uncommon", it's the Sages that are uncommon.

    If you're only talking about gear, there's countless sins who have 4.0 base. Most of them do it with G13 Nirvana though.

    Yes but that is G13, as in not as much damage as G15.
    Current daggers: pwcalc.com/fc68d6284402410d
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If youre spamming windshield on your genie you cancel out your sage damage reduction. Meanwhile a demon sin is spamming frenzy and getting much higher DPS.

    Yes i know about the demage reduction and frenzy, but with sage means i can solo more, like TT with 3% BP and 4.0 with the 25% reduction or 5.0 with 10%. both help, alot more then frenzy.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes i know about the demage reduction and frenzy, but with sage means i can solo more, like TT with 3% BP and 4.0 with the 25% reduction or 5.0 with 10%. both help, alot more then frenzy.

    Your BP isn't self-buff therefor it's not a benefit to just you. I have a level 101 sage sin that I can buff my demon sin non-stop. With that being said I'd love to see you tank more then my demon sin which has 16k pdef 16k HP.....

    To answer your other question, there are about a good 7-10 pairs of SS and 2 -int pairs, but 90% of those are on demon sins.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes but that is G13, as in not as much damage as G15.
    Current daggers: pwcalc.com/fc68d6284402410d

    You asked if there are other 4.0 base sages out there. The answer is yes, obviously.
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes i know about the demage reduction and frenzy, but with sage means i can solo more, like TT with 3% BP and 4.0 with the 25% reduction or 5.0 with 10%. both help, alot more then frenzy.

    Only if we're talking non-endgame sharding.

    An endgame Demon sin out-survives and out-DDs a Sage in every single way. Simply because the Demon gets to use JoSD and the Sage is still using DoTs. And the DoTs just aren't enough to catch up.

    I do, however, think that a Sage has the advantage in being able to CHOOSE between survivability and damage. Unless we're talking about the previously mentioned +10 refines and JoSDs.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Your BP isn't self-buff therefor it's not a benefit to just you. I have a level 101 sage sin that I can buff my demon sin non-stop. With that being said I'd love to see you tank more then my demon sin which has 16k pdef 16k HP.....

    To answer your other question, there are about a good 7-10 pairs of SS and 2 -int pairs, but 90% of those are on demon sins.

    My BP will be self-buff because im sage and i will be soloing TT.
    And not everyone else has 2 assassins to buff and hit with, and you don't need much to tank bosses, Just decent defence and decent Hp. I probabily couldn't tank the same as that no as my Sin is only 10k pdef/11k hp.
    But thank's for the answer.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You asked if there are other 4.0 base sages out there. The answer is yes, obviously.



    Only if we're talking non-endgame sharding.

    An endgame Demon sin out-survives and out-DDs a Sage in every single way. Simply because the Demon gets to use JoSD and the Sage is still using DoTs. And the DoTs just aren't enough to catch up.

    I do, however, think that a Sage has the advantage in being able to CHOOSE between survivability and damage. Unless we're talking about the previously mentioned +10 refines and JoSDs.
    How does full JoSD's help the Demon sin out DD a sage? a Sage 5.0 g15 sin can go full DoT and do more than frenzy and it has dagger devotion for an extra 15% damage.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How does full JoSD's help the Demon sin out DD a sage? a Sage 5.0 g15 sin can go full DoT and do more than frenzy and it has dagger devotion for an extra 15% damage.

    A 5.0 Sage is no different from a Demon sin. Going full DoTs on that is dumb as ****.

    Also:
    5.0 Sage: 213,928 dps
    5.0 Demon: 229,801 dps

    Note: The Demon has more life and defenses due to having 4 pieces of Nirvana instead of 2.
    The Demon has more survivability due to having 45 Defense Levels instead of 5.

    So... you were saying?

    And please don't tell me my math is wrong, it's not.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A 5.0 Sage is no different from a Demon sin. Going full DoTs on that is dumb as ****.

    Also:
    5.0 Sage: 213,928 dps
    5.0 Demon: 229,801 dps

    Note: The Demon has more life and defenses due to having 4 pieces of Nirvana instead of 2.
    The Demon has more survivability due to having 45 Defense Levels instead of 5.

    So... you were saying?

    And please don't tell me my math is wrong, it's not.

    It might be dumb as ****, but some people might prefer that. so add the 29 attack levels or so to your DPS calculation, because i know JoSD doesnt add to damage.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It might be dumb as ****, but some people might prefer that. so add the 29 attack levels or so to your DPS calculation, because i know JoSD doesnt add to damage.

    Why would I need to add DoTs to the Demon when he already out-DDs the Sage?

    The Sage in that calculation is full DoT.
    The Demon in that calculation has 20 JoSD and 4 Primevals.

    Both of them have the same cape, belt, necklace, rings, chest, weapon and helmet. The only difference in gear is that the Demon has Nirvana wrists and boots.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Why would I need to add DoTs to the Demon when he already out-DDs the Sage?

    The Sage in that calculation is full DoT.
    The Demon in that calculation has 20 JoSD and 4 Primevals.

    Both of them have the same cape, belt, necklace, rings, chest, weapon and helmet. The only difference in gear is that the Demon has Nirvana wrists and boots.

    Well considering im 5.0 perma sage, with 29 dot, your calculations must be wrong, because i have 15% more dagger damage than a demon 5.0, you've gone wrong somewhere. demon dagger devotion is 75% sage is 90%, and then dot would just top sage off as higher.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well considering im 5.0 perma sage, with 29 dot, your calculations must be wrong, because i have 15% more dagger damage than a demon 5.0, you've gone wrong somewhere. demon dagger devotion is 75% sage is 90%, and then dot would just top sage off as higher.

    ..... wut? You do realize how little difference that makes, right?

    Look at http://pwcalc.com/5a931fcf2f7d87d1 Now add in the different masteries.

    Sage dagger devotion gets you 8600-10196 Phys attack.
    Demon dagger devotion gets you 8278-9814 Phys attack and 2% crit.

    Ignoring the crit, that's less than a 400 base p. attack difference between the two.... which is something that the demon would easily make up for with the higher base crit. The fact of the matter is that demon dagger devotion is better for DPS with high-end weapons with the same reason for why DoTs are **** in a weapon compared to garnets.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well considering im 5.0 perma sage, with 29 dot, your calculations must be wrong, because i have 15% more dagger damage than a demon 5.0, you've gone wrong somewhere. demon dagger devotion is 75% sage is 90%, and then dot would just top sage off as higher.

    You might have more DPH, doesn't mean you have more DPS. Demons naturally have more crit% than Sages.

    ALso, in my comparison I was using very specific items. I have never actually ran into a Demon with my gear. Mostly because most Demons go for R9 instead of 5.0 with G15.

    Also, R9 Demon > R9 Sage > 5.0 Demon > 5.0 Sage.

    Different setups yield different results. But if you go all out on DPS, then Demon is superior. Which is what most people do. However, I'd personally settle for less and get some Defense Levels.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    ..... wut? You do realize how little difference that makes, right?

    Look at http://pwcalc.com/5a931fcf2f7d87d1 Now add in the different masteries.

    Sage dagger devotion gets you 8600-10196 Phys attack.
    Demon dagger devotion gets you 8278-9814 Phys attack and 2% crit.

    Ignoring the crit, that's less than a 400 base p. attack difference between the two.... which is something that the demon would easily make up for with the higher base crit. The fact of the matter is that demon dagger devotion is better for DPS with high-end weapons with the same reason for why DoTs are **** in a weapon compared to garnets.

    Yes but that is 400 base attack every hit,(Not mentioning even more sparked) so there's a bit more damage for you, aswell as full DoT.
    I don't even know how we got onto arguing about a full JoSD demon sin, i wasn't even talking about that, i was talking about 5.0 sage G15.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes but that is 400 base attack every hit,(Not mentioning even more sparked) so there's a bit more damage for you, aswell as full DoT.
    I don't even know how we got onto arguing about a full JoSD demon sin, i wasn't even talking about that, i was talking about 5.0 sage G15.

    5.0 Sage is still only at best equal to a Demon. The only way to surpass the Demon in DPS is to shard DoTs, but then the Demon can just get R9 and he'll be way out of your league with 4.0 R9.

    And a 5.0 Demon obviously has more defensive capability than a Sage because they can shard more JoSD. My point? Demon > Sage at endgame. And Demon > Sage at equal gear.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You might have more DPH, doesn't mean you have more DPS. Demons naturally have more crit% than Sages.

    ALso, in my comparison I was using very specific items. I have never actually ran into a Demon with my gear. Mostly because most Demons go for R9 instead of 5.0 with G15.

    Also, R9 Demon > R9 Sage > 5.0 Demon > 5.0 Sage.

    Different setups yield different results. But if you go all out on DPS, then Demon is superior. Which is what most people do. However, I'd personally settle for less and get some Defense Levels.

    How does it mean i have more DPH? i'd have 29 attack level every hit and the 15% bonus every hit.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes but that is 400 base attack every hit,(Not mentioning even more sparked) so there's a bit more damage for you, aswell as full DoT.
    I don't even know how we got onto arguing about a full JoSD demon sin, i wasn't even talking about that, i was talking about 5.0 sage G15.

    1: Less of a difference sparked.
    2: You're ignoring what I mentioned about crit. 400 damage would be a bit below 2% of their base phys attack when sparked. Demon's 2% crit above the sage's covers that.
    3: As Olba has already said, 4.0 R9 Demon > 5.0 G15 Sage (30 attack levels on weapon just beat all the DoT sage sharded PLUS higher attack that beats the boost given by sage dagger devotion due to weapon difference).

    Basically, if you intend to get super endgame, when it comes to DPS a demon beats sage all over the place and if the sage tries to use DoTs to catch up in DPS then the sage will lose in survivability too compared to the (most likely Jade sharded) demon.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ok... this guy is an idiot.

    /giveup
    b:surrender
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ok... this guy is an idiot.

    /giveup
    b:surrender

    I pm'ed you 3 pages ago saying that, called it.

    b:avoid
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Fishblade - Sanctuary
    Fishblade - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    1: Less of a difference sparked.
    2: You're ignoring what I mentioned about crit. 400 damage would be a bit below 2% of their base phys attack when sparked. Demon's 2% crit above the sage's covers that.
    3: As Olba has already said, 4.0 R9 Demon > 5.0 G15 Sage (30 attack levels on weapon just beat all the DoT sage sharded PLUS higher attack that beats the boost given by sage dagger devotion due to weapon difference).

    Basically, if you intend to get super endgame, when it comes to DPS a demon beats sage all over the place and if the sage tries to use DoTs to catch up in DPS then the sage will lose in survivability too compared to the (most likely Jade sharded) demon.

    Who said anything about JoSD in pk? i want damage for soloing, like i said.. i didn't start an argument about which is better, i am sage, im staying sage, and i'll be getting full DoT.
    Im not bothered about r9 demons beating me, that's their choice if they wanted that dagger, i have G15 so im sticking with it.

    I don't know why you both started arguing about which was best..
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Who said anything about JoSD in pk? i want damage for soloing, like i said.. i didn't start an argument about which is better, i am sage, im staying sage, and i'll be getting full DoT.
    Im not bothered about r9 demons beating me, that's their choice if they wanted that dagger, i have G15 so im sticking with it.

    I don't know why you both started arguing about which was best..

    Never said anything about PK.... and as for the question on best, see:
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes i know about the demage reduction and frenzy, but with sage means i can solo more, like TT with 3% BP and 4.0 with the 25% reduction or 5.0 with 10%. both help, alot more then frenzy.
    Fishblade - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How does full JoSD's help the Demon sin out DD a sage? a Sage 5.0 g15 sin can go full DoT and do more than frenzy and it has dagger devotion for an extra 15% damage.

    Now let me make this completely obvious to you:
    http://pwcalc.com/1250431dae7bc011 4.0 Demon sin
    http://pwcalc.com/390ba707746015d0 4.0 Sage sin

    We have a base DPS of 225467 for the demon and 208428 for the sage. On top of that, the demon has the better survivability (especially if you use wind shield on the sage). Oh and the demon has a higher base physical attack even though the sage has the mastery (15% mastery difference is a very tiny difference like I've said).

    BP is a squad buff, so culti is irrelevant there when you can just ask someone to sage paint you (and since you need at least one other person to open a TT unless you're running 4 clients may as well). With DPS, as we're pointing out, a sage will only be able to tie with a Demon at best. Sage has the power to get greater survivability if they choose not to shard DoTs but aside from that... well... your opinion that wind shield's ability to negate your advantage as a sage would help more than a demon's ability to out-DD a sage and have better survivability than one that chose to go full DoT is woefully misplaced.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Wow does ignorance still flourish here! So what if Demon has 2% more crit; Sage Wolf Emblem is sustainable. Even if windshield reduces Sage defense boost: they still get it from Windshield -so still more defense. Lets leave Sage Subsea out of the equation when talking end game dps as well. Ignore half the skills and make it sound simple.

    The thread is like a gang of car salesmen, or a list of specs for a Dell computer.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    tweakz don't be stupider than you can normally be.

    Sage wolf emblem is a slight boost for sage on something that takes an extended period of time, I'll give you that. However, the difference between a Jade sharded Demon and a DoT sharded sage in terms of defense was close enough to begin with. If the sage starts using wind shield and nullifying that advantage, it swings completely to the demon. Oh and Sage Subsea? Seriously? You were a former veno who had enough sense to realize that when only one veno was around, Demon amp was superior to Sage amp. Same damn thing applies to subsea. Anything that dies in 1 spark cycle goes to sage but when you're solo and will take multiple spark cycles? Demon beats it by simple math.... and because of the fact that Demon wolf emblem is a higher crit damage boost, a demon that uses wolf emblem right before every other subsea they use is going to wind up with a higher average DPS than a sage's permanent wolf emblem and weaker subsea over longer durations.


    Your attempt to bring up the skills when you clearly don't know enough or are too ignorant to see what's logically clear to everyone else is pathetic at best. And considering my sin is sage and I have enough sense to see this, it says a good deal about you.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    tweakz wrote: »
    Wow does ignorance still flourish here! So what if Demon has 2% more crit; Sage Wolf Emblem is sustainable. Even if windshield reduces Sage defense boost: they still get it from Windshield -so still more defense. Lets leave Sage Subsea out of the equation when talking end game dps as well. Ignore half the skills and make it sound simple.

    The thread is like a gang of car salesmen, or a list of specs for a Dell computer.

    Subsea is a moot argument, because using EP and Sage Power Dash is always superior. Unless we're talking squad. And even then, assuming that the boss lives at least the duration of Demon Subsea, the Demon Subsea will be superior.

    And Wolf Emblem as a permanent buff is nice, yes, but it adds the exact same thing as a Demon. Demon just gets the advantage of choosing when it's on, so they get higher AoE damage potential, plus the actual crits they get have more damage.

    And again: Sage sharding with DoTs vs Demon sharding JoSD, the JoSD shards will far out-do Sage Spark.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Subsea is a moot argument, because using EP and Sage Power Dash is always superior. Overall, anyway.

    Shhh! You're supposed to just debunk his attempts at talking. Not correct him on what someone with sense would actually do!

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