Fighting tiger- help please?

Daggerclaws - Archosaur · January 2012

Ever since I got the ability to be a tiger, I have been using it almost always. I even attack monsters as a tiger, and my attacks used to be around 25-30 but now they're going down to 13-14. how do I bring up the numbers for a stronger attack?

Daggerclaws - Archosaur · January 2012

I dont know what happened but its better now. Now im getting 40-60 attacks but can someone still explain why please?

_Perses_ - Lost City · January 2012

You lvl 10 barb....it's possible you might of not had some points distrubuted, or maybe you didn't have your weapon equiped...

Did you buy a new weapon and forget to equip it?

QuietKitteh - Lost City · January 2012

If you read the skill description of tigerform it says that your hp will increase but ur dmg on the other hand will decrease. So in tiger form you hit 50% less

Ytrud - Archosaur · January 2012

QuietKitteh - Lost City wrote: »

If you read the skill description of tigerform it says that your hp will increase but ur dmg on the other hand will decrease. So in tiger form you hit 50% less

I never really noticed a difference. LvL 1 True form is however 20% decrease in weapon damage. LvL 3 is 50%. But even at lvl 97 i don't notice a big difference, it could be because i'm using a lower lvl axe tho (pan gu's)

My guess would be your weapon was broke, and you repaired it before you saw better numbers.

Daggerclaws - Archosaur · January 2012

Okay, thanks!

Arthursoul - Archosaur · January 2012

Daggerclaws - Archosaur wrote: »

Ever since I got the ability to be a tiger, I have been using it almost always. I even attack monsters as a tiger, and my attacks used to be around 25-30 but now they're going down to 13-14. how do I bring up the numbers for a stronger attack?

I don't know if this help or not but in tiger form your damage will decrease by 50% if lvl 3, but I heard that Sage True Form won't decrease your damage in tiger form. Not sure haven't been a sage barb btw

Ytrud - Archosaur · January 2012

Demon is for no dmg reduction, sage is 40%hp gain.

But, like i said, from the description it's based on weapon dmg. For me Phys atk 3364-6731, of that 528-1426 is weapon. Halved is 264-713, so 4%-22% or 8-11% depending on how the system works it out, i dont' know. I'm gonna guess it's the 2nd (low end stays with low end, high with high) As i never noticed more than a 10% difference. And of course this would change from person to person depending on str/weapon/atk adds.

And i know descriptions are wrong a lot, just saying what i've noticed and what it says, lol.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · January 2012

Ytrud - Archosaur wrote: »

Demon is for no dmg reduction, sage is 40%hp gain.

But, like i said, from the description it's based on weapon dmg. For me Phys atk 3364-6731, of that 528-1426 is weapon. Halved is 264-713, so 4%-22% or 8-11% depending on how the system works it out, i dont' know. I'm gonna guess it's the 2nd (low end stays with low end, high with high) As i never noticed more than a 10% difference. And of course this would change from person to person depending on str/weapon/atk adds.

And i know descriptions are wrong a lot, just saying what i've noticed and what it says, lol.

Yep, this is correct. Tiger form halves your weapon damage, not your total damage. For strength builds, this is a bit less (normally around 9%) and for high vit builds it can be as much as 25% since they don't have as many multiplying stats points.

Your total damage is based on things like strength (each point multiplies your weapon dmg by 1/150), weapon mastery multiplies your weapon dmg, and buffs like Strength of Titans that multiply your weapon dmg.

PWpedia's damage page.

So to the original poster, tiger form reduces your attack dmg. That's why skills are useful because they add additional attack at a certain rate. Try stacking Flesh Ream. Since its a set rate of damage it isn't affected by tiger form. When you hit level 23 you can Penetrate Armor and then use Flesh Ream (FR) and since bleed is a physical effect the debuff caused by Penetrate Armor will increase the bleed damage.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · January 2012

To OP,

Trueform increases your HP and your speed, and if you have leveled shpaeshifting intensify, it will also increase your pdef. So you get more HP and take less damage. A tradeoff is that you will have reduced by as uch as 50%wep once you level trueform to 3 (which wil be like overall reduction of about 20-30%) of attack damage.
So you use trueform mainly as tanking form. Against mobs you may want to use humanoid.
However if you broke (like me) you might want to grind in tigerform throughout. And post lvl59 once you have learnt Sunder (our self heal and uber tigerform aoe attack) you'll definitely be running around more as tiger.

Good news is you dont have to level it. Some barbs keep it at level2 (reasonable HP bonus, decent speed boost and acceptable damage loss) until they hit 89 and then get lvl4 (Sage or Demon version).

Also Id suggest using Devour on mobs as your first attack. The reduced pdef on the mob will more than make up for your damage loss. In fat with lvl2 trueform and lvl10 devour, you may find yourself doing more damage in tigerform. b:chuckle

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide · January 2012

Hazardus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To OP,

Trueform increases your HP and your speed, and if you have leveled shpaeshifting intensify, it will also increase your pdef. So you get more HP and take less damage. A tradeoff is that you will have reduced by as uch as 50%wep once you level trueform to 3 (which wil be like overall reduction of about 20-30%) of attack damage.
So you use trueform mainly as tanking form. Against mobs you may want to use humanoid.
However if you broke (like me) you might want to grind in tigerform throughout. And post lvl59 once you have learnt Sunder (our self heal and uber tigerform aoe attack) you'll definitely be running around more as tiger.

Good news is you dont have to level it. Some barbs keep it at level2 (reasonable HP bonus, decent speed boost and acceptable damage loss) until they hit 89 and then get lvl4 (Sage or Demon version).

Also Id suggest using Devour on mobs as your first attack. The reduced pdef on the mob will more than make up for your damage loss. In fat with lvl2 trueform and lvl10 devour, you may find yourself doing more damage in tigerform. b:chuckle

Did you SERIOUSLY just suggest that????

To the OP, what most likely happened is the utility attack charms you get early on ran out, then you got some more. Or as someone else mentioned, your weapon possibly broke and you didn't realize it.

Please do NOT take that suggestion of leaving true form at lvl 2. As Saku noted the reduction applies only to your weapons base damage, which is minor in most cases. The extra HP and the speed bonus GREATLY outweigh the minor difference between lvl 2 and lvl 3's damage reduction penalty.

Ytrud - Archosaur · January 2012

My numbers were based on a 300str vit barb with pan gu's , with lvl3 true form. 300 str due to eventual r8. At a diff of 10%. As said by previous poster no reason not to lvl true form asap. Actually I have demon true form. Was just stating worst casr scenario for me.

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear · January 2012

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Did you SERIOUSLY just suggest that????

Yes I did. It has been done for too long (in fact even the guides that have been stickied here for years mentions it).

Broke barbs who constantly grind in tigerform, since they dont want to spend too much on pots often do this. Upto 60+ or so you arent really tanking anything serious (by serious Im talking of the likes of Kong or Krimson) and if you arent the main tank of your faction, theres really not much benefit to it (though I did miss the speed bonus).

Nowadays theres an abundance of BH squads with higher level barbs/BMs/clerics whatevers willing to tank the FB for you anyways.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide · January 2012

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes I did. It has been done for too long (in fact even the guides that have been stickied here for years mentions it).

Broke barbs who constantly grind in tigerform, since they dont want to spend too much on pots often do this. Upto 60+ or so you arent really tanking anything serious (by serious Im talking of the likes of Kong or Krimson) and if you arent the main tank of your faction, theres really not much benefit to it (though I did miss the speed bonus).

Nowadays theres an abundance of BH squads with higher level barbs/BMs/clerics whatevers willing to tank the FB for you anyways.

You said keep true form at level 2 up until level 89, then grab sage/demon.

I can think of a few reason why this is a bad idea. Pole and Nob. You could definitely benefit from the extra HP.

75-89, you're most likely going to be pulling FC. The speed boost and the HP help out a lot there. You're not there to DD, you're a tank.

There are other's but I think that proves my point.

Yes you are correct that it has been done that way for far too long, and even the stickied guides suggest it. Thing is, most of those guides shouldn't even be stickied anymore. They are outdated, and thus irrelevant. The longer something (this game) is around, the more methods on how to do something evolve, become more efficient.

In the early days, what seemed to be a good idea, has been proven otherwise by now.

And the difference between level two and level three True Form's damage penalty?

Look:

Gale Dual Hammer's are a popular weapon at around the time you can go from lvl 2 to lvl 3 on True Form.

Physical Attack from those is 472-708.

With lvl 2 True Form that is reduced down to 307-461

With lvl 3 True Form that is reduced down to 236-354

So at lvl 59, when you have the opportunity to upgrade to level 3, this is what you'll have:

Level 2 True Form

Level 3 True Form

Level 2 has a base physical attack of 1285-2006

Level 3 has a base physical attack of 1205-1881

(A difference of 7.3%)

Using Level 7 (Req lvl 59) Devour as an example (Base + 1529):

Level 2 Does 2814-3535

Level 3 Does 2734-3410

(A difference of 2.9% - 3.6%)

This is just barebones, no other gear bonuses factored in, no Poison Fang, etc.

In an FB/BH you have DD's already, extra HP wins out over an extra 2% damage on your .91 sec swing timer.

Solo grinding, the extra HP and the fact you close the distance between mobs ~11% faster means your grinding at about the same speed and have more HP for a cushion/before you have to pot/meditate/sunder/run for the hills.

Not leveling True Form past level 2 until 89 does nothing but hurt yourself no matter how you look at it.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear · January 2012

QuietKitteh - Lost City wrote: »

If you read the skill description of tigerform it says that your hp will increase but ur dmg on the other hand will decrease. So in tiger form you hit 50% less

Your weapon attack decreases by 50%, not overall attack.

ETA: First attack as Devour isn't that bad of an idea, however, if you use Alacrity, you have a chance to freeze your opponent...which is great against runners or ranged mobs.

ItsAWolf - Archosaur · February 2012

It's just another modifier easily offset by strength. Just see it as -75 strength when in tiger form. Not that big a deal.

Fighting tiger- help please?

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