Dark Death thorn,R9 ,Sage questions :P

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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not to add fuel to any fire (sage sins are good for some reasons, demon sins are good for some reasons.) but the classic scenario of full DoT sage or full JoSD demon, the demon sin gets more damage reduction and more damage. As defense grows and defense levels are added 25% spark reduction becomes less important. Demon get easier dps in the early endgame stages, and a sage has to grow into their dps. Sage have more tankability early endgame and demons have to grow into theirs. I chose demon because of its damage because I see more options for growing defense than I do damage, even though its more expensive.

    You show me a 5 aps full JoSD sin. Without recast R8. In fact, you can't go over 20 JoSD without falling down to 3.33. You could still shard the R8 armor with 4 DoDs. Or settle for 4.0 with Cube and Warsong ornaments.

    5 aps Demon with 20 JoSD and 4 Primevals: 62% pdef, 51% Mdef, 42% reduction from Defense Levels, 195,279 dps
    4 aps Sage with 24 DoTs: 60% Pdef, 48% Mdef, 20% reduction from Defense Levels, 183,726 dps.

    The Sage would also get 25% reduction from Sage Spark, which I believe is multiplicative in nature, giving the Sage an overall reduction of 40% on all damage.

    Not that anyone ever argued that a super endgame Demon sin wouldn't be superior to a Sage.

    Personally I like a Sage sin because we get the option of getting similar DPS but we also have the choice to turtle, something which the Demons lack.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You show me a 5 aps full JoSD sin. Without recast R8. In fact, you can't go over 20 JoSD without falling down to 3.33. You could still shard the R8 armor with 4 DoDs. Or settle for 4.0 with Cube and Warsong ornaments.

    5 aps Demon with 20 JoSD and 4 Primevals: 62% pdef, 51% Mdef, 42% reduction from Defense Levels, 195,279 dps
    4 aps Sage with 24 DoTs: 60% Pdef, 48% Mdef, 20% reduction from Defense Levels, 183,726 dps.

    The Sage would also get 25% reduction from Sage Spark, which I believe is multiplicative in nature, giving the Sage an overall reduction of 40% on all damage.

    Not that anyone ever argued that a super endgame Demon sin wouldn't be superior to a Sage.

    Personally I like a Sage sin because we get the option of getting similar DPS but we also have the choice to turtle, something which the Demons lack.

    Good analysis :D But where a sage can use windshield for an aps bump, a demon can use it to turtle and it works as well as a sage spark.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Good analysis :D But where a sage can use windshield for an aps bump, a demon can use it to turtle and it works as well as a sage spark.

    No it doesn't. You'd need level 1 Windshield to constantly spam it. Level 1 Windshield gives you 6% base reduction plus 1% for every 8 dex you have. To spam Windshield, you'd most likely go for close-to pure mag on the genie.

    Level 10 Windshield would give you a 15% reduction, but costs 62 energy so it's not spammable.

    Also, by choosing to spam windshield, you're throwing away EP and Tangling Mire from your chain, meaning that you're losing damage.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No it doesn't. You'd need level 1 Windshield to constantly spam it. Level 1 Windshield gives you 6% base reduction plus 1% for every 8 dex you have. To spam Windshield, you'd most likely go for close-to pure mag on the genie.

    Level 10 Windshield would give you a 15% reduction, but costs 62 energy so it's not spammable.

    Also, by choosing to spam windshield, you're throwing away EP and Tangling Mire from your chain, meaning that you're losing damage.

    Didn't realize you meant to turtle forever. I was just pointing out that for 15-20 seconds its easily possible to turtle while you recover hp back to full and get skills out of cooldown and full chi.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Didn't realize you meant to turtle forever. I was just pointing out that for 15-20 seconds its easily possible to turtle while you recover hp back to full and get skills out of cooldown and full chi.

    Then again if you want to turtle for 15-20 seconds, Blood Frenzy is the top choice.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Olba: Can you give a DPS and reduction on this?

    http://pwcalc.com/7c0df06abe2b6d1d
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Olba: Can you give a DPS and reduction on this?

    http://pwcalc.com/7c0df06abe2b6d1d

    216,723 and 39%. Or 45.75% with Sage Spark.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    216,723 and 39%. Or 45.75% with Sage Spark.

    Niice, and it's with only one piece of r8 recast too. Which to get a double -int on wouldn't be as harsh as trying to triple :>...I would just have to hope the third stat be dex or something good, but meh...as long as I got that double -.05 I don't think i'd care too much what the other stats where x3

    Oh and it's 5.0 base, so basically forever sparked...and probably more DD than the demon spark..or would I be wrong on that?
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Oh and it's 5.0 base, so basically forever sparked...and probably more DD than the demon spark..or would I be wrong on that?

    Demons lose their advantage when you're talking 4-5 aps. The 2% crit from their mastery is still slightly better than the +15% damage from the sage version, though.

    And rather obviously, a 5.0 R9 Demon would be superior to that Sage build, at least in terms of DPS.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Niice, and it's with only one piece of r8 recast too. Which to get a double -int on wouldn't be as harsh as trying to triple :>...I would just have to hope the third stat be dex or something good, but meh...as long as I got that double -.05 I don't think i'd care too much what the other stats where x3

    Oh and it's 5.0 base, so basically forever sparked...and probably more DD than the demon spark..or would I be wrong on that?

    2 -ints would probably cost a billion or so, and a hell of a long time to get. Damascene Ore on dreamweaver is extremely hard to find, so you'd basically need to join a faction and be exclusive in getting the drops. 1 -int is pretty much the only realistic roll for r8. We'll see if I'm one of those GoF -int on G15 daggers type lucky when I roll my plate. I need 1 -int to be 5.0 base sage claw barb, and 2 -ints would let me roll a typical revenge -int roll G15 claws. Either way it's going to be interesting.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    2 -ints would probably cost a billion or so, and a hell of a long time to get. Damascene Ore on dreamweaver is extremely hard to find, so you'd basically need to join a faction and be exclusive in getting the drops. 1 -int is pretty much the only realistic roll for r8. We'll see if I'm one of those GoF -int on G15 daggers type lucky when I roll my plate. I need 1 -int to be 5.0 base sage claw barb, and 2 -ints would let me roll a typical revenge -int roll G15 claws. Either way it's going to be interesting.

    lol, that is the weird thing with my luck :S

    I will normally make **** 2-3 socket, but the stats will ALWAYS be maxed :>...So I have a feeling I might be a lucky *** and get that XD
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tynne - Lost City
    Tynne - Lost City Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No it doesn't. You'd need level 1 Windshield to constantly spam it. Level 1 Windshield gives you 6% base reduction plus 1% for every 8 dex you have. To spam Windshield, you'd most likely go for close-to pure mag on the genie.

    Level 10 Windshield would give you a 15% reduction, but costs 62 energy so it's not spammable.

    Also, by choosing to spam windshield, you're throwing away EP and Tangling Mire from your chain, meaning that you're losing damage.

    *uses genie with 146 energy and 112 str* (infliction)

    *dosent rely on EP* >_>

    lvl 10 mire+frenzy+windshield idk just my 2cents

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