usual r9/2nd recast/pan gu post
FoosYu - Harshlands
Posts: 97 Arc User
with all the other posts becoming arguments and this probably being another one.
#1 is 30 att level really worth it when you have to buy the 300k rep AND r9 ring? isn't that like 300mil or so?
#2 if i were to actually pick dark death thorn, should i get an interval tome first so at least i have some aps to help farm? or should i worry about interval tome after.
if it helps, http://pwcalc.com/2744cf661f0a56f5 my current build
basiclly, i'm starting to see a baby boomer of either one of those 2 daggers and they seem to be the "new end-game" for sins. thought i'd like to catch up with them
#1 is 30 att level really worth it when you have to buy the 300k rep AND r9 ring? isn't that like 300mil or so?
#2 if i were to actually pick dark death thorn, should i get an interval tome first so at least i have some aps to help farm? or should i worry about interval tome after.
if it helps, http://pwcalc.com/2744cf661f0a56f5 my current build
basiclly, i'm starting to see a baby boomer of either one of those 2 daggers and they seem to be the "new end-game" for sins. thought i'd like to catch up with them
Post edited by FoosYu - Harshlands on
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Comments
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FoosYu - Harshlands wrote: »with all the other posts becoming arguments and this probably being another one.
#1 is 30 att level really worth it when you have to buy the 300k rep AND r9 ring? isn't that like 300mil or so?
#2 if i were to actually pick dark death thorn, should i get an interval tome first so at least i have some aps to help farm? or should i worry about interval tome after.
if it helps, http://pwcalc.com/2744cf661f0a56f5 my current build
basiclly, i'm starting to see a baby boomer of either one of those 2 daggers and they seem to be the "new end-game" for sins. thought i'd like to catch up with them
#1: You also get G16, the best base DPH in the game and an automatic GoF.
#2: Well obviously? If you get your endgame weapon before you have all of the other items, you're an idiot.
#3: Your build has way too low refines. You should aim for more like +7-10 before you start thinking of upgrading your weapon again, especially since it's already a +10 G13.
Btw, the odds of scoring GoF and -0.05 on Dark Death Thorn is 1:400, which would give you an effective cost of 2,943 Raptures for it. I'm pretty sure that comes to about 5,000,000,000 coins. In comparison, getting from 200k rep to R9 dagger costs 786 Gold, which amounts to 1,603,440,000 at 2,000,000 per Gold.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Hmmm if i was u i just farm interval tome then i'll go g15.
I have them +7 atm with ss/0.05/+19str and it really does nice damage
I did few nirvana with +11 r8 daggers 4aps and he couldn't steal me agro...
R9 dags are really awesome too but the total cost to get them made me choose g15...
And i prefer stay 5aps personally
If u are enough rich u could get r9 ring + g15 daggers it's good mix.0 -
And btw it's really all about luck for reroll stats on g15 (ss/0.05)
U can get it at 1st try or 40th tries... If u very unlucky
For my self i got it on first try after craft them lol
b:victory0 -
Dinya - Sanctuary wrote: »And btw it's really all about luck for reroll stats on g15 (ss/0.05)
U can get it at 1st try or 40th tries... If u very unlucky
For my self i got it on first try after craft them lol
b:victory
I thought the add ons you get was based on skill?0 -
Idk if it's based on skills since it's a friend who crafted for me (i don't have bs lvl6)
And he tried over 30times for his g15 and atm he's stuck with 3%crit/0.05....
I think i got very lucky on (0.05/ss/+19str) on 1st try. He's still QQing about my luck lol b:laugh the problem it's really exPansive recast if u failed many times to get stats...0 -
no, I'm pretty sure it's dependant on how actually good you are at pvp or pve.0
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Oh please, stop kidding yourselves.
It's obviously in relation to the amount of zen you've bought. The more you have, the better drops and crafting results you have.
Soon enough they'll also implement a variable that increases your APS and decreases your damage taken on zen spent.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh please, stop kidding yourselves.
It's obviously in relation to the amount of zen you've bought. The more you have, the better drops and crafting results you have.
Soon enough they'll also implement a variable that increases your APS and decreases your damage taken on zen spent.
lmao thats sick.
regarding this post, i just crafted a g15 lunar dagger (3% crit, 2x -0.05int). Took me about 20 tries. i dont understand why ppl want GOF. I think the perfect nirvana daggers got 20 Att Lv 130 max att and -0.05 int, this build will come really close to r9 dmg. And hmm, i could get r9, ofcourse, but the single thing that i dont like about em is the fact that they are bound and in time they will become obsolete (remember lunar weapons last year >. > ) and you will just dig a grave for your cash buying that.
regarding the 4aps vs 5aps war, i would say that i rather want to be 4 aps with insane dmg than 5 aps and hit like an old lady.
before i got these stats, last reroll had +22 att lvl and +106 att - you wont belive how many pms i got from ppl sayin it suckz, but very few took a second to calculate the output dps of that - which compared to r9 (ignoring gof rate) hits 10k dps less at +12 and costs 3 times less.
my advice is to forget about aps war and concentrate more on dmg:survival ratio.- my personal signature -
- the one who bashes all Caster Nirvana QQers -0 -
thanks for the input guys b:thanks
i just wanted to say, yeah i'm hoping i have enough coins right now for an interval tome, i later thought about what Olbaze said and yeah might as well get other gears first, especially if i **** up with not getting interval on dark death thorn, GG for me!
i would like if someone gave me some valid reasons on 30 att level on a r9 dagger is worth getting (in my case) 100k rep AND r9 ring, then having to actaully GET the daggers. if i already have G13 daggers...why not just upgrade?
i've read a bunch of posts saying that r9 will dish out like a small % dmg more than dark death thorn which i'm guessing is cause of the 30 att level. realistically it seems like dark death thorn hits like r9 daggers but you get interval? can't remember where but someone said "if dmg is about the same.... 5.0aps > 4.0 aps"
oh yeah i just randomly thought about this. what's harder to get as stats on dark death thorn? SS or interval? yeah i checked the pw database already but i want to hear from experiences.0 -
FoosYu - Harshlands wrote: »i would like if someone gave me some valid reasons on 30 att level on a r9 dagger is worth getting (in my case) 100k rep AND r9 ring, then having to actaully GET the daggers. if i already have G13 daggers...why not just upgrade?
Not just that. Also the GoF. Because as I said earlier, the odds of GoF and 1x -0.05 on the same dagger is 1:400, which is more than the price of buying 100k rep + r9 ring + r9 dagger due to the price of Raptures.i've read a bunch of posts saying that r9 will dish out like a small % dmg more than dark death thorn which i'm guessing is cause of the 30 att level. realistically it seems like dark death thorn hits like r9 daggers but you get interval? can't remember where but someone said "if dmg is about the same.... 5.0aps > 4.0 aps"
Nope. What R9 has that G15 will never have:
1. GoF
2. 30 Attack Levels
3. G16
The two weapons are very different. R9 is a hellish DPH machine, whereas DDT gets most of its damage from the potential for -interval.
As for realistic or not, you need a single perfect roll (GoF, -0.05 interval, +130 maximum patk), the odds of which are something like 1:8000. And even then, the dagger is barely superior to R9.oh yeah i just randomly thought about this. what's harder to get as stats on dark death thorn? SS or interval? yeah i checked the pw database already but i want to hear from experiences.
SS is 46.5%, GoF is 2.5%, so they have a combined 49% and a single -0.05 interval is 10%, two -0.05 intervals is 1:400.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
odds to get ss(att lvls/gof) and -int are 5% so in average it takes 20 rerolls to get that -> 140 raps. thats around 200m and 350m to make the daggers ( i got all my raps for 1,35 recently, idk about prices now/on ur server) so id calc with 550mill when making them. thats aroud 1/3 of the price of 200k rep-> r9 daggers, so a huge price difference for a "little" dmg difference.
its not true that if base damage is the same 5 aps > 4 aps. lets assume r9 daggers and g15s have the same base damage (which they dont, r9 is better),
so g15 (ss, -int) hits 5/sec, times 35% (crit)->6,75 x 15% (ss)-> 7,76
r9 hits 4/sec times 35% 5,4-> times 30% (att lvls) 7,02-> times 20% (gof)-> 8,4
im assuming both daggers do 1 damage each hit, doesnt matter as we assumed their base damage is the same ( so the difference is even bigger )
r9 has other advantages over g15 like a way higher DPH (important for aoes) and a lower DPS (-> less damage from gof;p)
even though r9 daggers are better, id always get myself a pair of g15s again. mine turned out 2 socket, and after 4 rerolls i had ss/-int/+1 att so the total cost of making them was under 400M. 1/4 of r9 lol. there is no doubt in my head which daggers are better.
and obviously there are always the chances to roll better things on g15, like a sin on my server that rolled ss and x2 -int on her first roll.
anyway good luck with ur decicion and if u go for g15s i wish u good luck on ur rolls:)0 -
EIvemage - Dreamweaver wrote: »odds to get ss(att lvls/gof) and -int are 5% so in average it takes 20 rerolls to get that -> 140 raps. thats around 200m and 350m to make the daggers ( i got all my raps for 1,35 recently, idk about prices now/on ur server) so id calc with 550mill when making them. thats aroud 1/3 of the price of 200k rep-> r9 daggers, so a huge price difference for a "little" dmg difference.
Granted, if you're only shooting for GoF/SS and a single -0.05 interval, it's pretty common at 1:21.
But if you want 2x -0.05 interval and GoF/SS, you're looking at a much crappier 1:817. And if you want to beat R9, you'll need GoF, -0.05 interval and +130 patk, which gives you 1:8,000.
However, if you manage to buy Raptures at 1.5m, which is a pretty low price, even the easiest G15 comes to 435,000,000. If you want the 2x -0.05, you're looking at 8,793,000,000. Finally, the one option that beats R9 comes at a hefty pricetag of 84,214,500,000. And these are the expected costs.
All while R9, starting from R8, comes to 1,603,440,000 or less.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Granted, if you're only shooting for GoF/SS and a single -0.05 interval, it's pretty common at 1:21.
But if you want 2x -0.05 interval and GoF/SS, you're looking at a much crappier 1:817. And if you want to beat R9, you'll need GoF, -0.05 interval and +130 patk, which gives you 1:8,000.
However, if you manage to buy Raptures at 1.5m, which is a pretty low price, even the easiest G15 comes to 435,000,000. If you want the 2x -0.05, you're looking at 8,793,000,000. Finally, the one option that beats R9 comes at a hefty pricetag of 84,214,500,000. And these are the expected costs.
All while R9, starting from R8, comes to 1,603,440,000 or less.
the chances to get an "endgame" add are 5%. thats either gof/ss/att lvls and one -int, and as i already said that adds up to around 550m (raps at 1,35m, thats what i bought them for like 2 weeks ago and im pretty confident they will go back down to that as soon as gold starts droppin) so g15 is 1/3 of the price of r9. i think my previous post explained it VERY well, r9 is better no doubt (then a ss,-int g15) but the damage difference is not worth the price difference in my opinion0 -
EIvemage - Dreamweaver wrote: »i think my previous post explained it VERY well, r9 is better no doubt (then a ss,-int g15) but the damage difference is not worth the price difference in my opinion
EIvemage gets the idea of what i'm asking. i obviously know that r9 daggers hit harder than DDT, but is the difference really THAT big when you input these random numbers that aren't giving all us readers a "big wow"?
Olbaze i'm looking for GOF/ss, .05 interval and....pretty much whatever else that is related to dmg, like maybe ATT level +1 or 2 lolol. so it's around 1:21 odds? good enough for me lulz cause i'm not really expecting to hit a 1:02457024876924857 chance at the dream daggers.
and also, what's a better way of getting pan gu, creator? Script of Fates x3/buy the actual 927 tome pages and 729 tome frags/magically save up another 100mil for Scroll of Tome?0 -
Hey, My friend is a 4 aps r9+4 sin with 2 flawless garnet shards in it, he already out DDs his nirvana 1st cast +10, 2 sock, 2 perfect garnet sharded dags at 5 aps. b:victoryb:victoryb:victory
Edit : Oh and r9 does about 45% more hit (with the attack levels and refines at +10 and about 53% at +12) then nirv 2nd cast....0 -
FoosYu - Harshlands wrote: »EIvemage gets the idea of what i'm asking. i obviously know that r9 daggers hit harder than DDT, but is the difference really THAT big when you input these random numbers that aren't giving all us readers a "big wow"?
Olbaze i'm looking for GOF/ss, .05 interval and....pretty much whatever else that is related to dmg, like maybe ATT level +1 or 2 lolol. so it's around 1:21 odds? good enough for me lulz cause i'm not really expecting to hit a 1:02457024876924857 chance at the dream daggers.
and also, what's a better way of getting pan gu, creator? Script of Fates x3/buy the actual 927 tome pages and 729 tome frags/magically save up another 100mil for Scroll of Tome?
The difference is really that big if you PK or TW. I can't even explain how nasty the unsparked damage difference is between the two, not to mention the AoE difference.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Lol - i think with the introduction of the recasting system the discussion of best dps should be clear. If u asssume a perfect G15 weap then u can also assume 3x -.05 int modifiers in total on boots and/or chest thus resulting in a 5aps r9 sin.
Chances of the latter should be even higher than a perfect G15 weap but i didnt get into the maths.0 -
IamSorry - Lothranis wrote: »Chances of the latter should be even higher than a perfect G15 weap but i didnt get into the maths.
A perfect G15 weapon is about 1:16,000. 3x -interval odds on a recast R8 piece is somewhere around 1:300,000. So good luck with that.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Sorry i meant 3x in total so most likey 2x int on chest and 1x int on boots. Thats a big difference.0
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IamSorry - Lothranis wrote: »Nuh it is not 3x on 1 piece but 3x in total on two pieces.Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Well that was easy lol...
Now we have the missing percentages from nirvana gear: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/25665
and
the r8 recast weapons: http://www.pwdatabase.com/cn/items/32263
and the armor: http://www.pwdatabase.com/cn/items/32276
How come no one emailed him before <_<
LA Chest -int = 1.47%
HA Chest -int = 1.37%
LA Boot -int = .15%
HA Boot -int = .15%
With 3 stats per armor:
LA Chest
Chance of 1 x -.05 int = 4.28% : 1 in 23 chance
Chance of 2 x -.05 int = .064% : 1 in 1566 chance
Chance of 3 x -.05 int = .0003% : 1 in 314,810 chance
HA Chest
Chance of 1 x -.05 int = 4.1% : 1 in 25 chance
Chance of 2 x -.05 int = .055% : 1 in 1800 chance
Chance of 3 x -.05 int = .000257% : 1 in 388,900 chance
LA/HA Boots
Chance of 1 x -.05 int = .45% : 1 in 223 chance
Chance of 2 x -.05 int = .0007% : 1 in 148,370 chance
Chance of 3 x -.05 int = .00000034% : 1 in 296,296,296 chance
EDIT. Lol the chance for interval on daggers / fist isnt .6%.. its 0.13% have fun with that.. Really the only people that will be benefiting from more interval is going to be BMs with a 1 in 25 chance of interval on the chest. There's not going to be any other reasonable -int
1 in 1566 * 1 mil per roll is already 1,566,000,000 coins. 1566 x 3 Damascene Ore.... nvm you already got the point, and if you don't by now then you're hopeless.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »1 in 1566 * 1 mil per roll is already 1,566,000,000 coins. 1566 x 3 Damascene Ore.... nvm you already got the point, and if you don't by now then you're hopeless.
Granted, it's going to be much more expensive than rolling a GoF/-0.05/+130max G15, but even so, the G15 would be the most expensive weapon in the game, since it'd have a pricetag of about 112,000 Raptures. Even with a ridiculously low price of 1m each, you're talking about 112,000,000,000 coins.
Interestingly, the recast R8 dagger, even though it has a much higher chance for GoF and has 3 random mods instead of 4, is still more expensive to get to the same stats due to having ridiculously low odds for the -0.05.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Well actually my point was just to say that both cases are very theoretical. There exist a few nearly perfect daggers, and sooner or later we will see the first 5aps r9 sin as well.
The bottomline is that r9 is (currently) the best endgame weap, but since this fact is always questioned by this theorectial chance for a perfect g15 dagger I just wanted to point out that with a compareable probability you would have to take a 5aps r9 sin as comparison. And in that case the latter one would be better than the perfect g15 dagger.0 -
IamSorry - Lothranis wrote: »Well actually my point was just to say that both cases are very theoretical. There exist a few nearly perfect daggers, and sooner or later we will see the first 5aps r9 sin as well.
The bottomline is that r9 is (currently) the best endgame weap, but since this fact is always questioned by this theorectial chance for a perfect g15 dagger I just wanted to point out that with a compareable probability you would have to take a 5aps r9 sin as comparison. And in that case the latter one would be better than the perfect g15 dagger.
R9 is only the best in certain aspects.
R9 has a weaker chi gain than G15 due to 4.0 vs 5.0, or 2.86 vs 4.0 on Sage.
R9 does, however, have the best DPS, DPH and refine rate in the game.
And before you start spouting **** about APS = DPS, I'd like to remind you that APS also affects chi gain, which in turn affects skill usages and survivability.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Granted, it's going to be much more expensive than rolling a GoF/-0.05/+130max G15, but even so, the G15 would be the most expensive weapon in the game, since it'd have a pricetag of about 112,000 Raptures. Even with a ridiculously low price of 1m each, you're talking about 112,000,000,000 coins.
Interestingly, the recast R8 dagger, even though it has a much higher chance for GoF and has 3 random mods instead of 4, is still more expensive to get to the same stats due to having ridiculously low odds for the -0.05.
You must factor in time to your equation and logic. Raptures are about 100x easier to come by then Damascene Ore. I could roll 2 -int claws GoF -int daggers Blood Vengence sword, and Spirits Blackhole bow before I'd be able to even get half the Damascene Ore I'd need to roll 2 -ints on r8 reforged. This is purely theoretical probability on mats, not if I use them as I get them and get really lucky.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »You must factor in time to your equation and logic. Raptures are about 100x easier to come by then Damascene Ore. I could roll 2 -int claws GoF -int daggers Blood Vengence sword, and Spirits Blackhole bow before I'd be able to even get half the Damascene Ore I'd need to roll 2 -ints on r8 reforged. This is purely theoretical probability on mats, not if I use them as I get them and get really lucky.
Well obviously. Raptures have the advantage of not only being more available, but also having a stable supply and market built around them already, whereas everything around the r8 recast is very unstable.
Obviously, if you adjusted them according to a time parameter, the G15 would be a superior option. But then again, the R8 recast is a bit of a **** child: it's as costly as a G15 Nirvana, but the modifiers only allow it to realistically compete and triumph over G13/normal R8. Though, that's going to change with time as the supply will grow larger and the sellers will be forced to lower their prices.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Well obviously. Raptures have the advantage of not only being more available, but also having a stable supply and market built around them already, whereas everything around the r8 recast is very unstable.
Obviously, if you adjusted them according to a time parameter, the G15 would be a superior option. But then again, the R8 recast is a bit of a **** child: it's as costly as a G15 Nirvana, but the modifiers only allow it to realistically compete and triumph over G13/normal R8. Though, that's going to change with time as the supply will grow larger and the sellers will be forced to lower their prices.
I don't see it growing. That's the problem with the whole r8 recast set up. I can't see more and more factions growing to do it regularly. This game isn't going through that kind of growth to really boost the amount of people doing the trials. The only boost to this market might be certain people get their items and start selling what they get, but I find those types or players will go back to their other routine and drop doing trials verse keep doing it.
Nirvana was opposite of this model. You increased the number of alts and all they had to do was 99 key quests, on top of people getting so good that they can duo it without much of a problem. The model for the r8 reforged market isn't set up for this to happen. Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad, but that's how it is set up.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
I see the chi gain from 4aps to 5aps as a negligible advantage since we talk about endgame. With decent refines (gear +10) and 4aps r8 one has already enough survivability to solo (with full buffs) 3-2 and 3-3. With 4aps, knife throw and a genie cancel skill you have more than enough ways to cancel/resist harder bosses like steel/emp/colluseast. Not to mention your chi skills in case you got slowed down in the wrong moment or bubbled a lot.
R9 proc doesnt make any probs in terms of survivability anymore, since we all know how to limit the hp loss to a minimum.
Hence, for me and my playstyle R9>>g150 -
once again- if your going to compare the most awesome possible nirvana 2nd cast daggers to rank 9 daggers---You should probably be using recast rank 9 daggers to keep the cost comparable.0
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Probabilities are just that... Not actual. It personally only took me 8 tries to get GoF, 1x int, and Str +18 (yuck, I know).
Bottomline, it may be more expensive to get some R9 contender g15 daggers or it may cost less than half. Oh.... Btw mine are lunar nirvana daggers so I can sell them if I ever wanted / needed the coin. You cannot do that with R9.0 -
okay so i'm back to see my post bumped...
So far my current build is http://pwcalc.com/de58ce57ffcfb1fa
so for the past iunno how long since i posted this, i got my pan gu and 2nd recast (sorry r9 supporters xD)b:victory
i'm kinda liking the SS/GoF thing going when i'm doing pvp/pve, but i think i take too much dmg from it especially since i have 7k unbuffed while not being able to get enough return from BP.
and what's this secret on keeping SS/GoF on the low? b:shocked0
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