Frenzy defense reduction, and boss attack speed

Sakubatou - Sanctuary
Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
edited January 2012 in Assassin
Just a few last minute thoughts before going to bed.

The other day I was helping a lower level sin through FCC and talking about genies and mentioned the "double edge" of Frenzy (Enrage). It increases your atk by 20 atk levels but destroys your defenses. She asked by how much and my normal 5.5k pdef was down around 600 pdef. I was pretty shocked the difference was that big. However later I was cleric buffed and went from 7500 to around 3k (I think) and 9500 with bell leaves me at 5.5k. So does Frenzy not affect the defense that buffs adds? Anyone have a reference or personal observations?

I also reminded her that 20 levels isn't a 20% increase, its more like a 14.5% increase because I walk around with 40 attack levels normally.



Second, most of us remember going from 2 aps base to 2.86 sparked, working really hard to get our next piece of -int and becoming 2.22 aps base and.. wtf, 2.86 sparked. Some of us knew it would happen and we laughed at the "my aps are glitching" threads that would pop up as people added -int with no sparked aps increase.

I was curious about bosses and Rib Strike, and if the level 10 50% attack speed decrease is ever the same as the demon level 11 65% attack speed decrease because they fall on the same breakpoints. Just thinking about it. Will do my research tomorrow but if anyone know where to find boss attack rates, since I know they have them for pets.
Post edited by Sakubatou - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    However later I was cleric buffed and went from 7500 to around 3k (I think) and 9500 with bell leaves me at 5.5k. So does Frenzy not affect the defense that buffs adds? Anyone have a reference or personal observations?

    I think all debuff affecting defense value are calculated on your base value just like buffs are. i.e. you'll get the same % equipment value add from Cleric buff regardless if you have BM buff or not. In the same sense, debuff will remove certain value, calculated from your base value regardless of other buffs/debuffs.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Not to be funny or a smarty, but if you read the discription on the skill it tells you exactly what it does. At level 10 it reduces defence and resistances by 100% of "GEAR" value, not total or base value.
    Example, if you have 5000k pdef and mdef unbuffed and your gear by itself gives 4500k pdef and mdef you will loose 4500k from your defenses not your total current values whch is why you dont go totaly to 0 on defences.

    One large note:
    What the actualy reduction is in game would have to be answered by pwi/pwe staff, as with anything math based in programming it could be off or not even close to what it is said to be.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Equipment phys defense is the sum of all you the pdef on your gear.
    Your unbuffed defense is a little more than this due to your vit and str (vit adds about .08% equipment pdef per point while STR adds about .12% per point)
    Frenzy is -100% your equipment defense.

    By comparison Demon Bell is +75% phys defense and vanguard is +60% phys defense.

    With bell + vanguard + frenzy you still have +35% phys defense which is about half a bell above your unbuffed defense.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Equipment phys defense is the sum of all you the pdef on your gear.
    Your unbuffed defense is a little more than this due to your vit and str (vit adds about .08% equipment pdef per point while STR adds about .12% per point)
    Frenzy is -100% your equipment defense.

    By comparison Demon Bell is +75% phys defense and vanguard is +60% phys defense.

    With bell + vanguard + frenzy you still have +35% phys defense which is about half a bell above your unbuffed defense.

    Which still doesn't explain how Bell + Vanguard + Frenzy resulted in no visible gain nor loss in Defense.

    But yes, the points are still valid: Bell, Vanguard and Frenzy are mutually additive. Other than those, you'd still be left with defense from STR and VIT, which would be significant if you happen to have Primevals or Savants sharded into your armor.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Not to be funny or a smarty, but if you read the discription on the skill it tells you exactly what it does. At level 10 it reduces defence and resistances by 100% of "GEAR" value, not total or base value....

    Wow, I thought I'd read the description and it gave a general "and decreases users physical defense" with no rate stated. That's why I added it to my list of forums questions. :D woops. Yah, I understand how it works and it is how I thought it did without knowing the actual rate. Was just having a blind moment apparently.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Which still doesn't explain how Bell + Vanguard + Frenzy resulted in no visible gain nor loss in Defense.

    Where are you getting that idea from?
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Where are you getting that idea from?

    Well the OP said that he normally has 5.5k pdef. Later on said that with Bell, Vanguard and Frenzy, he also had 5.5k Pdef.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Wow, I thought I'd read the description and it gave a general "and decreases users physical defense" with no rate stated. That's why I added it to my list of forums questions. :D woops. Yah, I understand how it works and it is how I thought it did without knowing the actual rate. Was just having a blind moment apparently.

    lol I know the feeling, that is why i said i was not being funny, just trying to point it out. It is easy to overlook things. I do it alot myself

    b:bye
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    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Well the OP said that he normally has 5.5k pdef. Later on said that with Bell, Vanguard and Frenzy, he also had 5.5k Pdef.

    Ahh ok. The OPs observations weren't very precise. Bell, Vanguard, and Frenzy will leave you at a bit more pdef than what you have unbuffed.
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