Confused about when our debuffs overwrite HF etc

starjade
starjade Posts: 3 Arc User
edited January 2012 in Venomancer
Im new to Nirvana and suddenly i'm squadding with a BM/s a lot more then i ever have before so i have a few questions about when i should use my debuffs so they dont interfere with the BM's HF, i usually use my myriad rainbows frequently but i hesitate to use them when im in a squad with a BM because i got told it overwrites HF, im not sure of the timing for when to use them and i probably miss out on getting extra debuffs in.

The other skills im unsure of are Ironwood should i not use it? and Parasitic Nova (i have the demon version) i did read somewhere that nova amp doesnt stack with HF and wont overwrite it so how long after HF is used should Nova be used and does the status affects on nova overwrite HF?

Thanks for any advice :)
Post edited by starjade on

Comments

  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The veno debuffs that overwrite BM debuffs are Ironwood Scarab lvl 10 or sage which overwrites the physical debuff of Glacial Spike and Demon Nova which ovewrites HF.

    when a BM used HF , cast myriad ironwood or Demon Nova just when HF effect ends. if you dont have demon ironwood , have it always active.
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  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    For the defense reduction statuses, the veno debuffs are stronger, but not a guarantee. Let the BM Glacial Spike and/or the Cleric throw out their seals and/or barb devour first. Then apply your myriad(s) and Ironwood. If you're lucky enough for it to proc, then you overwrite with a stronger debuff. If it doesn't proc, then you still have the weaker debuff to fall back on.

    Just make sure you cast yours after the other class. I cannot tell you how aggravating it is to land a 100% defense break only to have it overwritten with half that or less.


    For Nova, just time yours between the BMs HFs. BMs should be going first and you should only be casting Nova while HF is on cooldown. Depending on the squad make up, it may be more worthwhile to pass sparks or Demon Spark more often than to try to work in Nova.
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Note that Sage Ironwood is not a stronger debuff than Devour or Glacial Spike (though the mind/armor breaks from the Myriad Rainbows are) but is longer lasting than either.
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  • starjade
    starjade Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I have the Demon Ironwood skillbook but haven't used it yet i'd be interested to hear from some demon veno's if they find it worth trading the more stable lvl10 for :)
  • Syedora - Sanctuary
    Syedora - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I did learn Ironwood with no regrets. That's a personal choice and opinion, however.

    Considering that both Myriad Rainbows are quite spam-able the proc rate isn't all that rare. If anything, Demon Ironwood just raises the chance of an armor break by having 3 skills with a chance to offer the said debuff.

    If you have Demon Crush Vigor and Lending Hand, use them. More often than not, they're enough to keep my sparks up. In case I'm passing chi to others, for whatever reasons, I rely on Crush Vigor and use Lending Hand when I am able to (it's a matter of experience that you gain over time). For Crush Vigor, I cast it shortly before Amplify's cooldown ends so that I won't be late in casting Amplify.
    So, with the chi problem being solved, Ironwood and Myriads can be spammed.

    You may also consider the fact that Demon Ironwood increases the damage of the skill itself. Unless it's Caster Nirvana (I tend to use Lucky Scarab there instead), I always use Demon Ironwood after Demon Venomous's debuff for that very reason.

    If you're not the type to rely on luck too much and would much rather have a consistent physical debuff, it'd be better to keep lvl10 Ironwood.
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  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    +1 to Desdi.

    Also keep in mind that this debuff can come from several places with varying strengths:

    Level 10 Beffudling Creeper (Mystic) - 20%
    Level 10 Dimensional Seal (Cleric) - 30%
    Level 10 Ironwood - 30%
    Level 10 Tangling Mire* (Genie) - 35%+
    Level 5 Pierce (Pet) - 36%
    Sage Ironwood - 40%
    Level 11 Dimensional Seal (Cleric) - 40%
    Level 10/11 Glacial Spike (BM) - 50%
    Level 10/11 Devour (Barb) - 50%
    Myriad Rainbow (both) - full break
    Demon Ironwood - full break

    Considering endgame skills, Level 10 Ironwood's debuff is somewhat weak, so part of your decision may come from who you run with and what skills they have. Even for solo play, if you find you miss the debuff that much, it can easily be picked back up with Tangling Mire and/or Pierce.


    * Tangling Mire is slightly different from the other skills in that it has a different icon and will stack with everything else listed. However, it is still listed to show the comparison against Demon Ironwood.
  • starjade
    starjade Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Thanks so much to everyone who replied :)

    Think i will use the ironwood skillbook after all b:victory

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