i cant kill archers

bori69
bori69 Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Cleric
how do i kill them


they can get immune to sleep and paralize


i can dragg the battle one with plume shell and guardian light

but i cant really put any finishing blows....


we''re sora equally geared, mine may actually be a bit even better
Post edited by bori69 on

Comments

  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    It's hard since kiting an archer is tough (given their range and better skills for doing that). Historically, before sins and even before genies, archers were the cleric's worst nightmare in PvP.

    Use your genie to your advantage to help you extend the fight and land that killing blow. The saving grace is that an archer's mdef is really low, so your magic hurts them quite a bit.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Mitachi - Dreamweaver
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Historically, before sins and even before genies, archers were the cleric's worst nightmare in PvP.

    They still areb:cry
    lalalala Pokemon
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  • Daialura - Heavens Tear
    Daialura - Heavens Tear Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    One helpful tip is to get as close to them as you can while fighting. You don't want to kite an archer. The closer you get, the less damage they deal to you but you won't suffer the same penalty.

    First thing I do in an archer duel (Most of the time) is holy path right on top of them. Alot of times it throws them off since they don't expect a ranged class to get into melee range. While they're busy running away, pop them with a wield thunder/cyclone combo.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    And still too squishy...
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They still areb:cry

    Eh, I think sins are worse, with pop of of stealth + IG in TW... ~_~
    Daialura - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    One helpful tip is to get as close to them as you can while fighting. You don't want to kite an archer. The closer you get, the less damage they deal to you but you won't suffer the same penalty.

    This is advisable to an extent. They can still wingspan and pledge you to death, but it is better than being stunned and shot full of holes. I've even seen some archers pull out claws and 5aps arcanes to death when they run close, but it's rare and not advisable since it doesn't always work.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Eh, I think sins are worse, with pop of of stealth + IG in TW... ~_~

    b:cry You underestimate the power of a purge bow . I like sin better in TW than archer, and nowadays everyone making R9 archer b:shocked
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Well, first off...

    LA gives decent MDef. It's not as good as Arcane, but it's not as bad as HA. In fact, LA gives better MDef than PDef, which is why archers and sins typically use PDef ornaments. Overall, they have decent MDef, but it's gonna be lower than their PDef.

    Another point. Archers do half damage when they are hitting a target that is closer than 5 meters, unless they use certain skills. Sage Deadly Shot, for example, does full damage at 0 meters range. The other problem is most Archers are APS, in fact, mine will be 5.0 base at level 99. If you run UP TO some archers, and they say, have a +10 deicide and are 5.0 base with it, you're opening yourself up to a heap of damage very quickly with nowhere to go.

    My suggestion is to stack your IH's, wait for their immunities to wear off, and use seals/sleep on them for easier time at draining their HP.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Mitachi - Dreamweaver
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Eh, I think sins are worse, with pop of of stealth + IG in TW... ~_~



    This is advisable to an extent. They can still wingspan and pledge you to death, but it is better than being stunned and shot full of holes. I've even seen some archers pull out claws and 5aps arcanes to death when they run close, but it's rare and not advisable since it doesn't always work.

    Sins are weak in tw. Also the majority of the Sins have no clue how to play, they never use an Anti-Stun, sorry my dear fishy friends but if you attack a squishy cleric with no anti-stun you will kill them, but im not a squishy cleric so expect to be slept. They're too easy. Pop out of stealth, yay man im gonna kill this cleric, zomg wtf im only dealing hits of 200 to her(plume shell + mp charm ftw), omg she slept me oh noes what do i do. oh **** i died. Worst part is they never learn cause their ego's are still bigger than their heads, and now cause they can't faceroll kill me im "hacking" you'd be surprised how many of the fish pm me that when they couldn't kill me.b:chuckle
    lalalala Pokemon
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  • NinnaXXX - Sanctuary
    NinnaXXX - Sanctuary Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    b:cry You underestimate the power of a purge bow . I like sin better in TW than archer, and nowadays everyone making R9 archer b:shocked

    lol excatly, i hate yo archers kuru D; ! always swoosh my *** in tw xDD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The greatest danger for most of us
    is not that our aim is too high
    and we miss it
    but that it's too low and
    we reach it.
    -Michelangelo
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    NinnaXXX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    lol excatly, i hate yo archers kuru D; ! always swoosh my *** in tw xDD

    b:surrenderb:cry i hear ya and why your hubby always purge me when he hits me T_T hax bow
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sins are weak in tw. Also the majority of the Sins have no clue how to play, they never use an Anti-Stun, sorry my dear fishy friends but if you attack a squishy cleric with no anti-stun you will kill them, but im not a squishy cleric so expect to be slept. They're too easy. Pop out of stealth, yay man im gonna kill this cleric, zomg wtf im only dealing hits of 200 to her(plume shell + mp charm ftw), omg she slept me oh noes what do i do. oh **** i died. Worst part is they never learn cause their ego's are still bigger than their heads, and now cause they can't faceroll kill me im "hacking" you'd be surprised how many of the fish pm me that when they couldn't kill me.b:chuckle

    Not sure about that... I kept going up against an R9 archer, three R8 archers, and a squishy cleric in TW on my Sin. I kept dieing to the R9 archer if I tried killing the best geared R8 archer first, or I'd die to the best geared R8 archer if I tried killing the R9 archer first.

    So after dieing a few times, I figured out a simple (well, ****, really elaborate plan) to stunlock both at the same time. I ended up killing all of them, the Cleric had a rez buff, and rezzed one of the R8 archers, at which point I oneshot the cleric again with Knife throw... And the archer kited back to their base. They all ended up releasing at that point.

    So, no... Not all sins are 'omgbbq, I can faceroll everything!!!111!' and get butthurt when they can't just autoattack it all and have it die.

    As for archers... Eh, if you're in TW, you should have support with you. If you can sleep an archer that is trying to kill you, you should be able to get someone in your squad to take care of them. If you're in open world PVP, you should be able to pop an IG or something and either kite or bring the pain down on them in a way they don't expect. You should have options, you just gotta look at your resources and see what you can do.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Fenora - Sanctuary
    Fenora - Sanctuary Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Daialura - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    One helpful tip is to get as close to them as you can while fighting. You don't want to kite an archer. The closer you get, the less damage they deal to you but you won't suffer the same penalty.

    First thing I do in an archer duel (Most of the time) is holy path right on top of them. Alot of times it throws them off since they don't expect a ranged class to get into melee range. While they're busy running away, pop them with a wield thunder/cyclone combo.

    +10

    also whirlwind has a chance to slow them down when they are running from you ;)
  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Plume Shell is your friend. As is Guardian Light (79 skill) and Wings of Protection (also 79).

    Aside from that clerics don't have many attacks. Sleep is quite helpful and your other debuffs do not wake the opponent. Stack them. Sleep, Magic debuff, freeze, run back if opponent is melee and then 3 spark --> Cloud Eruption/White Tea and Tempest, Cyclone if opponent isn't dead. Thats honestly my best advice.

    If they antistun, kite your face off. Thats what I do.

    PvP is definitely experiential and you become better over time.

    Quoted from my post on page 2, thread Clerics vs all other classes (or something close to that title, too lazy to reopen window)

    I am an archer. Any smart archer expects you to close melee range and will use Wingspan/Pledge then stun and ****. Metal attacks also do full damage thru Plume Shell. So any archer that has fought a cleric 2 or 3 times should know this by now. You should be able to survive like 2-3 hits pending gears and crits, possibly more. Definitely aim for the 1 shot. Tempest is your friend and it hits like a truck.

    Aside from that, Archers are difficult for casters to fight properly since they are intended to do well against AAs (hence the term robe-killer). There are certainly level ranges where cleric severely overpowers archers, but end game wise, a competent archer should have little threat from a cleric.
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  • SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Simply put, an archer is a tough fight. They are designed to be anti robe as Vindis pointed out. I can only speak from a Pve perspective, but I can tell you this...

    Archer = Ranged physical hits, high crit rate, moderate defenses, high evasion rate,

    Cleric = Ranged magical hits, high magic defense, low physical defense, low hp, 100% accuracy with skills

    This said, from my perspective, if you're going to fight an archer that isn't OP, then I'd recommend having your defenses up as much as possible.

    Plume shell, wings of protection, guardian light, and sage vanguard if you are sage. (Sage magic shell microbuff helps too.)

    Demon wise, you'll do the same, but have demon spirits gift activated.

    If the archer triple sparks, I'd sleep them, or SOG if I had it right afterwards. Then I'd debuff. You need to save that sleep for a potential triple spark, This will cause it to be wasted if its used.

    I would sleep, debuff, purify myself, wait for a few if the archer is in a sparked stated, have my defenses up, and attack that when sleep wears off. Defense charms seem like they'd be effective here, and apoth/genie skills as well. Main thing is that you can't tank an archer's blows. They crit often and for physical damage. You can't kite. Their range is further.That being said, you're in for a tough fight. Their metal damage shouldn't be the biggest concern to you. Its their physical damage that will kill you.

    That's my take on it, and I hope that it helps you. :D
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    Need to see the cleric guide for questions, comments, or concerns? Just copy and paste the link.
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  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    A smart archer will antistun and immune most effects from sleep (2 antistuns, 1 for 15 sec and 30% dmg reduc, the other is an 8 sec holy path; both 1 spark). After that, you don't really have any options. I forget that there are still people dumb enough to 3 spark in duels on an archer or sin when facing a robe.

    Some archers are rly bad though so you should stand a chance. Definitely remember to run like hell if they 3 spark or antistun. Wearing them out and making them waste chi is better than dying.

    Also, don't underestimate archer metal attacks. Alot don't use them, but personally its my primary means of attack. Thundershock lowers their metal defense by 50%. Half of their current metal defense is alot less than the 80~85% reduc from Plume Shell on p def attacks and TS-->LS will generally crit and 1-2 shot plume shell if not kill the cleric outright (I have hit better geared clerics for 9k unsparked and thats without really trying for high damage (r8+7 bow).
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  • SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    A smart archer will antistun and immune most effects from sleep (2 antistuns, 1 for 15 sec and 30% dmg reduc, the other is an 8 sec holy path; both 1 spark). After that, you don't really have any options. I forget that there are still people dumb enough to 3 spark in duels on an archer or sin when facing a robe.

    Some archers are rly bad though so you should stand a chance. Definitely remember to run like hell if they 3 spark or antistun. Wearing them out and making them waste chi is better than dying.

    Also, don't underestimate archer metal attacks. Alot don't use them, but personally its my primary means of attack. Thundershock lowers their metal defense by 50%. Half of their current metal defense is alot less than the 80~85% reduc from Plume Shell on p def attacks and TS-->LS will generally crit and 1-2 shot plume shell if not kill the cleric outright (I have hit better geared clerics for 9k unsparked and thats without really trying for high damage (r8+7 bow).

    9k hits against a player? That's more than emp hit me for when we squadded together in 3-2 and 3-3 to help a mutual friend with celestial sage. Lol. (Looks at Vindis, and knows now that secretly, somehow it was you that shot me dead repeatedly, and not emp. LMAO.)


    On a serious note however, I didn't know that archer metal attacks also debuff, and that's not a fun thing to think of. Even worse is that its by 50%, so that's not something that I'd want to try to tank.

    Since I don't pk, and don't usually play my very low leveled archer, I didn't know about the anti stuns either. Those would be a problem in the face of sleep. (I guess SOG would still work, but not having it, and having not tried to experiment with it, I wouldn't know.)

    Well. I'm understanding more why archers are known as robe killers...even more than I realized already. Our disables, and kites are based on halting/slowing our enemies, and archers naturally resist that, so...they have a natural environment. Meh. I gave it my best shot. Pvp isn't my department, so good luck to figuring it out. My advise now is to ask an experienced pvp cleric that has been more effective in shutting down evenly geared archers at high levels.

    Best advise that I'd give now is apoth, and an anti archer geared genie...
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    Need to see the cleric guide for questions, comments, or concerns? Just copy and paste the link.
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  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    9k hits against a player? That's more than emp hit me for when we squadded together in 3-2 and 3-3 to help a mutual friend with celestial sage. Lol. (Looks at Vindis, and knows now that secretly, somehow it was you that shot me dead repeatedly, and not emp. LMAO.)

    Nothing surprising in 9K hit in PVP . Some people can take/deal way more damage than this .
  • NinnaXXX - Sanctuary
    NinnaXXX - Sanctuary Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nothing surprising in 9K hit in PVP . Some people can take/deal way more damage than this .

    yeh , i can tell for sure since my hubby shoots me off atleast 10times a day haha, its usefull thought this way i can try new ways to survive longer xDD i find that the anti stun is the only real annoying thing to survive long enough for it to wear off and the other thing ... tht 100 skill Awaken thts some bad recharging skill xD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The greatest danger for most of us
    is not that our aim is too high
    and we miss it
    but that it's too low and
    we reach it.
    -Michelangelo
  • Nuke_Cleric - Sanctuary
    Nuke_Cleric - Sanctuary Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Just faceroll it always works for me b:pleased
  • Ahira - Lost City
    Ahira - Lost City Posts: 791 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I used to really hate their metal attack a few years ago when I was mixed HA/arcane build- especially when people became more aware of my build so would definitely use those skills! =[

    Debuff bow is a bit scary- defence level sharding is a good counter for it if you can afford that. If you're similarly geared to the archer though you should be able to kill them with a decent strategy.
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  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ahira - Lost City wrote: »
    I used to really hate their metal attack a few years ago when I was mixed HA/arcane build- especially when people became more aware of my build so would definitely use those skills! =[

    Debuff bow is a bit scary- defence level sharding is a good counter for it if you can afford that. If you're similarly geared to the archer though you should be able to kill them with a decent strategy, because most archers, especially in TW, are borderline **** aps/tw alts and have no idea how to pvp properly

    *fixed.

    For an intelligent archer however, a cleric should never really win unless they get lucky with a very long sleep and a 3 spark Tempest crit.
    Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451

    Retired from PWI.

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