I've had enough of this type of stuff

Skulla - Dreamweaver
Skulla - Dreamweaver Posts: 163 Arc User
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
This was a thread closing response from the forum moderator KrittyCat in regards to a thread wondering why no bans have been issued for people exploiting the FC glitch.


This has been discussed more than enough on the forums.

Any action taken isn't going to be discussed with the community, so your odd thirst for justice will never be sated.

Closed.


First of all, an "odd thirst for justice" isn't odd, it's justified and completely normal. The strange thing about conscious awareness exhibited in animals is an innate sense of 'fairness'.
To call that 'odd' displays something out of kilter in the mind-set of the person making the declarative.

Second, the recurrence of the issue in the forums as to why people who have exploited a glitch that is CLEARLY defined as AGAINST the ToS of the game we all enjoy haven't been banned, in and of itself shows the first line of Kritty's response to be a complete and utter fallacy.

Third, "Any action taken"...
How about taking SOME action? What the hell are you people waiting for? It's obvious that literally NOTHING is going to happen to people who cheated their way through the game.
If you're not going to do anything TO them, why not at least do something FOR those of us who DIDN'T cheat?

The sad fact is that since nothing is done to cheaters and nothing is done for people who don't cheat the cheaters are subsequently rewarded and the non-cheaters are punished.
All this does is encourage aberrant behavior. Why do ANYTHING the right way when you can cheat and get more without fear of recrimination? Why do ANYTHING the right way when it requires more effort for less reward?

In what way have the moderators/GMs helped their game? How have they harmed the game? Is it just me or has it occurred to anyone else that the reason that cheaters haven't been punished is because AFTER they have cheated their way to the level cap they then have to spend an EXORBITANT amount of money to gear up the toon in the absurdly powerful and expensive R9+12 OMG IT'S FREAKIN AWESOME gear that oh-so-coincidentally provides money to the franchise holders of PWI?

Discuss... well, until KrittyCat closes THIS thread because it's just a too touchy subject to be allowed on this forum.
Post edited by Skulla - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Uhhh rage ON, dude!

    IBTL.

    ...

    Down with the establishment!
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  • Skulla - Dreamweaver
    Skulla - Dreamweaver Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sarcasm Sarra? Or solidarity?

    I have a hard time telling with you sometimes ;)
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited January 2012
    The case was already closed on the subject of the FC glitch when PWE made a statement that they weren't going to be banning all of the players who exploited the glitch, because it was partly their own fault for not responding quickly to fix the problem.

    I'm merely responding to a person who has posted close to 10 threads on the same issue, when said issue has, in fact, already been addressed.

    I'm open to continuing this discussion, but you should really consider sending PMs before you make rash threads. We, as mods, are more prone to discuss our actions via PM than answering threads of this sort.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited January 2012
    1. Do you have any idea what it takes to go through the logs and discover the individuals that abused the glitch? I've worked with the server files and databases, it's not as simple as you seem to think.

    2. It's been announced by frankie that they will do something, it's just going to take time. (As I stated above.)

    3. You're earlier QQ thread was closed, discuss it in one of the long-running, pre-existing threads if you have something to say. (Kritty did mention this as well.)
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  • Skulla - Dreamweaver
    Skulla - Dreamweaver Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    @Kritty: The reason I don't want this in PM should be self-evident. It isn't beneficial to the community to discuss things in private.

    @Sylent: I too have worked with large databases and data sets. Sorting large quantities of indexed data is what computers do best. Sorting on keys like 'character level' 'join date' etc. wouldn't be difficult for a machine OR a programmer. These will rapidly narrow down the data set that you are working with. Come on man, try harder. And it wasn't my QQ thread that was closed.
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited January 2012
    The client uses a proprietary Berkley database that is built-into the server, and it's also cross-references/integrated with a separate MySql database. The problem is that there isn't an interface to sort through the Berkley databases. The logs track absolutely everything, so you've got to search through terabytes of text that aren't delineated by any means. It's pretty freaking amazing that they get Core to function with the data half the time.

    Come back with me when you've figured out how to look at the proprietary databases. I'm pretty sure that the tool isn't available to the Dev's that we have here on the US servers. (Given what I've been discovering about how restricted their actual access is.)

    Also, when scanning all of this massive pile of data, what exactly are you looking for?? It's not like it's a set value.
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  • Skulla - Dreamweaver
    Skulla - Dreamweaver Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You're throwing details on the fire to make more smoke.
    Develop the interface using the programming language of your choice between the 'proprietary Berkley' files and the MySQL files.
    Are you or are you not a programmer/analyst?

    I spent 15 years making a significant sum of money developing applications to mine large data sets from various raw data sources. I am well versed in database analysis and programming. I doubt it would take me more than 3 months to identify keys in the data you're discussing no matter the format of said raw data. Given another 2-3 months I feel certain I would be able to develop a system to isolate data across the multiple databases and narrow the scope to the point that relevance is no longer a concern.
  • beastlore
    beastlore Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Also, when scanning all of this massive pile of data, what exactly are you looking for?? It's not like it's a set value.

    I would think you'd look for values like character level and creation date. It should be impossible for a character that has not been leveled on a glitch to achieve a certain level from the time the character was created. It should also be impossible for a character not exploiting a glitch to rapidly level after level 80.

    But, the data being logged and stored in a sequential text file would be a massive access problem, impacting negatively on the ability to police the game. This would suggest to me that when a data file is closed to further input it needs to be fed into a database that provides instant random access to sets of data.
  • Flamespirit - Dreamweaver
    Flamespirit - Dreamweaver Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Well, I'm all for getting rid of the 105's that poped up within a two month time from 101, which is generally not possible an if possible--not likely.

    In general, it would be especially nice to just target the freaking assasins in pk mode, cause essentially every assasin after them is really screwed. Because I didn't cheat my rank 9 +12 sin to 105( because I was scared to since it was stated it would be bannable), Im frequently killed from stealth by sins who I recognize to have been 100 or even pre100 prior to the popularity of the goon killing.

    In as much, If they arent being punished then it should just be unfixed an allowed to even the playing field an give everyone an equal opportunity. As it is I'm at a disadvantage because i followed the rules....And having spent multiple thousands of dollars on this game, seems like they should care to atleast make it equal oportunity within the rules.
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Holy ****ing ****...I'm just gonna start copying and pasting my own damn words for this bull**** threads.


    IF YOU BOTHER TO SEARCH THESE ****ING FORUMS FOR THE ISSUE ON THE DRAGOON GLITCH IN FROST, YOU WILL FIND THAT FRANKIERAYE HAS STATED THAT THE GM TEAM HAS DECIDED THAT BASED ON THE FACT THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO CLOSE DOWN THE ISSUE FAST ENOUGH, AND BECAUSE OF THAT PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO ABUSE THIS GLITCH, THEY ARE TAKING THE BLAME FOR IT. ALONG WITH THIS THEY HAVE BANNED THE WORST AFFENDORS OF THE GLITCH, BECAUSE IF THEY HAD BANNED EVERYBODY WHO USED THE GLITCH, THE MAJORITY OF THIS DAMN SERVER BASE OF THIS GAME WOULD OF HAD TO BE BANNED.



    Now every damn time I see one of these threads i'm gonna link this ****ing post =.=
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Skulla - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I spent 15 years making a significant sum of money developing applications to mine large data sets from various raw data sources. I am well versed in database analysis and programming. I doubt it would take me more than 3 months to identify keys in the data you're discussing no matter the format of said raw data. Given another 2-3 months I feel certain I would be able to develop a system to isolate data across the multiple databases and narrow the scope to the point that relevance is no longer a concern.

    So, that would take you, or one person roughly 6 months. How much would you make? Care to do it for free?

    PWE is running on skeleton crews and are overburdened already, and you want them to devote a team of 3-6 people a month or two to maybe catch offenders?

    Wishful thinking.... also, they don't care. If it were a priority they would have closed FC for emergency maintenance and rolled back the server, but guess what? They don't care. They made a LOT of money from it. That's all that really matters to them in the end.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited January 2012
    beastlore wrote: »
    I would think you'd look for values like character level and creation date. It should be impossible for a character that has not been leveled on a glitch to achieve a certain level from the time the character was created. It should also be impossible for a character not exploiting a glitch to rapidly level after level 80.
    ...


    Actually, with BH, Oracles, Hypers and Zhen Grinding higher level mobs, it's extremely easy to level rapidly after 80. (I took my seeker from 80 to 90 in merely 4 hours using the Zhen method.)
    You can still hit 100-105 fairly quickly even without glitching FCC. FCC was just faster and the other methods are more expensive, and require a bit more work.
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  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    The case was already closed on the subject of the FC glitch when PWE made a statement that they weren't going to be banning all of the players who exploited the glitch, because it was partly their own fault for not responding quickly to fix the problem.

    That statement never made a lot of sense to me. Sure, they let it go on too long. But them leaving a glitch unfixed does not force people to abuse it. The abusers are solely responsible for their actions.
    Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    In as much, If they arent being punished then it should just be unfixed an allowed to even the playing field an give everyone an equal opportunity. As it is I'm at a disadvantage because i followed the rules....And having spent multiple thousands of dollars on this game, seems like they should care to atleast make it equal oportunity within the rules.

    I agree with this. Removing the glitch and not punishing the abusers is, in essence, a punishment to those who followed the rules. If nothing is to be done in the way of reverting the levels of those who used the glitch, then it should be returned to the game to make it fair for everyone.
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  • Skulla - Dreamweaver
    Skulla - Dreamweaver Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Would I volunteer my time for free? Tough (and fair) question that I honestly can't answer without seeing the amount of work involved.

    The reality is though, they're not going to let me see the data without hiring me before hand which makes the point moot. And once I'm hired I won't have the ability to decide on my own what to do about the problem. The policy of the franchise holders will determine if the problem is to be addressed. That also has already been decided (as pointed out in the above post that is nothing more than a block of capital letters). There will be nothing done to the offenders.

    There may still be something done to reward those who did not offend.

    I expect nothing to come of any of this. My OP was to express my discontent with the way in which the threads that still occur on this subject are handled. The idea that you can make something go away by ignoring/censoring it rather than addressing/discussing it is anathema to a healthy, functioning system.
  • ZackMystic - Harshlands
    ZackMystic - Harshlands Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Holy ****ing ****...I'm just gonna start copying and pasting my own damn words for this bull**** threads.


    IF YOU BOTHER TO SEARCH THESE ****ING FORUMS FOR THE ISSUE ON THE DRAGOON GLITCH IN FROST, YOU WILL FIND THAT FRANKIERAYE HAS STATED THAT THE GM TEAM HAS DECIDED THAT BASED ON THE FACT THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO CLOSE DOWN THE ISSUE FAST ENOUGH, AND BECAUSE OF THAT PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO ABUSE THIS GLITCH, THEY ARE TAKING THE BLAME FOR IT. ALONG WITH THIS THEY HAVE BANNED THE WORST AFFENDORS OF THE GLITCH, BECAUSE IF THEY HAD BANNED EVERYBODY WHO USED THE GLITCH, THE MAJORITY OF THIS DAMN SERVER BASE OF THIS GAME WOULD OF HAD TO BE BANNED.



    Now every damn time I see one of these threads i'm gonna link this ****ing post =.=

    I vote your post be stickied!
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  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited January 2012
    ZackMystic - Harshlands wrote: »
    I vote your post be stickied!

    Yeah... no.

    A little bit too crude to be stickied, anyway.

    Also, let me just say that what I have been saying in this thread is not necessarily my personal view, but the one which has been expressed by PWE on the forums proper. If you want my personal view on the issue, feel free to PM me.

    As for this thread, I think its purpose has been served.

    Closed.
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