New players are spoiled !

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
So long story short,I recently created an alt,for fun,blah blah etc etc when I got to lv.40 and then 50 and then 60 this happens every time

"LF BH29/39/51 squad"

Either when I join a squad or I make one on my own 80% of times(And Im not giving away random numbers,I've been quite a few weeks at lv.50s and then 60s),there is some high level feeling"Helpful",or"Bored",or"Helping a faction mate/friend/whatever",or pick any random reason to do the BH....literally.
When I say do the BH I mean that the high level usually destroys anything before players can even touch em,mobs,bosses,they all fall down so quickly and the few new players remaining(Not my case ofc),are like"ohhh kool thiz 5apz demon kool",and stuff like that(You get the idea).

The hilarious thing happened the other day,in a BH51 squad(Which I was making),didn't had any *helpful* high level pm'ing me,but the squad was pretty much balanced,we had a Mystic,a Seeker,a BM,a Veno(me),and another class(Not sure if was wizzy or something),the Mystic at some random point stated
"No high level?"
Me(Bored Looking for new players):"No lets go already we're good"
My:We need an high level to tank
M: >.<

Based on Seeker and BM's Hp they could tank pretty well(Didn't checked their equip but they had almost 5k Hp),surely without a Cleric Wyrven could have been some trouble,but again,they had enough Hp...etc etc.

So in the end the Mystic didn't even bother to try and left squad,other followed without saying anything.

Now,aren't new players such spoiled little brats?,don't you think when you're an high level helping on a lower BH that you should leave some mobs for the"nubs",to make them do their fair part too?,isn't all this baby-sitting new players on lower BHs kinda getting too far?

Discuss ! :O (And I mean it)
The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
Post edited by BerserkBeast - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Bubbles - Morai
    Bubbles - Morai Posts: 1,143 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    It's only gets easier and easier.

    New expansion will bring a lot of freebie fantasy and scarlet fruits for the nubs under lvl 30.
    I don't know about 40+ but there's probably some free **** for them as well.

    Also those sort of things tend to happen when you have more high level players on a server than enough low lvl ones to have enough decent parties.
    While I remember there were always a few high levels to help with things such as fbs and bhs, it is a bit ridiculous how now it's expected instead of just working for it.
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  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Good old times waiting at head hunter platform and shouting in local for people to do Bh`s with b:surrender, have seen many cases of the so - called spoiled players in faction, if you don't help them with BH, some leave the faction since they can`t leech off other people. Another example was when picking up BH`s or entering OHT have seen quite a few times in local that smb. is shouting for HIGH lvl players to help.

    I can`t blame them, you can go from 1 to 60 in a day due to insane amounts of xp you can get either from FCC or oracles, the days when people actually worked for their levels are over.
  • _MonoxidE_ - Sanctuary
    _MonoxidE_ - Sanctuary Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Its no different than back in the day when people use to call a barb for everything.
    There has always been situations when things couldve worked. I.E a robe class tanking fb/bh59. Anytime Ive been in a 59 squad we used a robe to tank. A lot of newer players use to think it was impossible and couldnt be done without a high level barb or BM. Me and my friends took a lv65 cleric through 59 and made her tank it just to prove a point. She was scared at first but now appreciates it because it taught her more.

    Tell a veno to stow her pet and tank a caster boss and they will look at you like your insane unless they have previous knowledge or experience in doing so.
  • kruze999
    kruze999 Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Half of lowbies i hawe helped dont know english.. and when i hawe soloed whole instance for them i dont get even one thank you.. i dont know why i even help anyone, but it feels warm inside when i do.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Also those sort of things tend to happen when you have more high level players on a server than enough low lvl ones to have enough decent parties.
    While I remember there were always a few high levels to help with things such as fbs and bhs, it is a bit ridiculous how now it's expected instead of just working for it.
    I can`t blame them, you can go from 1 to 60 in a day due to insane amounts of xp you can get either from FCC or oracles, the days when people actually worked for their levels are over.

    These. With people being able to jump through their levels so easily nowadays, finding a full at-level squad for a BH is a rarity in itself. 29/39 are almost non-existent (high-levels offer to blow through it for others), 51 is uncommon (QQ Rankar/Wyvern), as is 59 (QQ everyone needs different bosses), 69 (QQ Polearm)... 79/89 may as well not exist since everyone else just lives in Frost all the time afterwards. >_>
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  • Ajiuo - Harshlands
    Ajiuo - Harshlands Posts: 708 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Personally, i get so pissed when people in my level range on lowbie bhs say "we need a high level!!!1" becaue back in the day, you didn't NEED a high level, everyone conquered the bh in that level range and it was FUN. but nowadays no one "wants to die" or take the "effort" to do a bh properly...
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  • Ruli - Heavens Tear
    Ruli - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    nice post, an very true. As leader of my guild i noticed a trend the moment BHs was introduced. People expect you to drop everything your doing to go tank or heal or DD ect ect. While i understand isnt a whole lot for really high levels too do, please dont expect me too run your BH's for you an yes the 'little ones' are far too spoiled for there own good. Central Arch near head hunter is a lag fest for a reason its where the BH noob lives

    Along with said BH noob is about 2000 other players all wanting to do a BH.
    b:angry

    *end rant*
    if i end up helping on a low level BH an with a 101 BM i consider 89 low level now b:laugh i try make people feel involved. When my wizzie did her fb 89 an no fault of the guild that ran it for me. I felt completly lost in Brim, it went too fast i felt disconnected from the party. Having been in that situation i try not too do it too others.
  • Pressa - Heavens Tear
    Pressa - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    That is not even right players should do their BH's like they are suppose to they are perfectly balanced that most variations that don't include massive repeats of classes in the squads can get them done with a bit of time. I know I did BH 69 and 79 and 89 and heh well I Always get high level help on 99.

    I don't wanna know why they won't do their own BH its disgusting
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • triponoobaki
    triponoobaki Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    New players are spoiled and not because of that bh. Everyone starts now and they buy heads. Heads...Heads...Heads...Heads...Heads..Heads and it is sh1ty when you grow up properly because no squads for bh nothing. In the past i remember there was a place for lvl 80 ppl that it was something like delta if im not wrong. I dont rmemeber the name, but now no one knows that. they just know heads/fc. Or what about pv? You see any guy making pv under 80 lvl? and the answer is NO.
  • maldryx
    maldryx Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Unfortunately, these days if you found a full squad of 5x, 6x, 7x, or even 8x players for a BH run, chances are very high that you will have at least one plvled noob in that squad who has no idea how to play their toon or what 99% of their skills do, and whose gear is going to reflect the lack of proper leveling (i.e. lvl20 weap on a 7x).
    In those squads, you just hope like heck the noob isn't the one who will be tanking or the healer. If/when I level an alt... I stick to faction BH runs because of this.
  • Stellula - Sanctuary
    Stellula - Sanctuary Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    This was frustrating to me when I wanted to do bh29/39/51 on my barb. While of course I always appreciate that a high level will take the time to help out on a bh they don't even need, I prefer a full squad of characters in the same level range. It just seems like a better learning experience to me and it is more fun because there is actually a need to pay attention.

    I wanted my barb to become experienced at holding aggro by practicing with squads. Unfortunately, it was very rare that I was able to get a bh squad without someone 30-50 levels higher coming along and automatically becoming the tank. b:surrender
  • Kerona - Sanctuary
    Kerona - Sanctuary Posts: 1,771 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I have a Mystic doing 51s at the moment, and as a Mystic, I would be nervy as hell if someone told me I'm solo healing Wyvern with a tank with 5k hp who does not possess invoke.

    I usually enjoy normal squads, honestly, I can solo all the BHs for my alts if I want to. I take the time to have some fun, meet new people, etc. Run BHs with random squads all day for all my alts. But I would have left your squad, too, were I told I was healing Wyvern with that kind of tank. Call me chicken. Would I have asked for a high level? Meh... Probably would have just said "bye, replace me with a cleric!".
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  • Strife_son - Sanctuary
    Strife_son - Sanctuary Posts: 1,217 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Bh51 is specifically challenging because of Rankar and Wyvern, they just wreck players around their level. Wyvern especially, due to the fact that he curses the target. Without a cleric, this boss would be extremely tricky. Even with a cleric, around level 60, purify would not guarantee the tank could survive.

    I don't think it really matters how people level. It's not a matter of people being spoiled or not. This is how some people choose to play this game, and if higher level players choose to spend their time helping others, then so be it. God forbid someone be helpful.

    If people don't want to do an instance because they are used to getting help, so what? Go make another squad with people who might want to try it.
  • Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide Posts: 934 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    As I rule I won't do a whole run for my faction members if its 59 or higher. By then they should know how to perform in a squad and search for a squad.

    For 51 I'll still help but i insist they try to fill every spot in the squad but one, for me.

    Also, for 29-51, I teach my members the caves, what the bosses do, what mobs explode, how to lure a running mob properly, etc. If they don't have time to be taught, they didn't need the help that badly IMO.

    One guy, lvl 31 left my faction in FB29 because i was going through and teaching him. He told me "hurry up I dont have all day". I told him we could do it when he had the time then. he didnt like that so he left. One week later the guy is 101 with an R9+12 weapon/+8 armor and in one of the top TW factions.

    I try to teach all the new players but I guess knowing how to play the game truly doesn't mean a thing when your credit card has no limit.
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I have a Mystic doing 51s at the moment, and as a Mystic, I would be nervy as hell if someone told me I'm solo healing Wyvern with a tank with 5k hp who does not possess invoke.

    I still remember that time my BM with LESS than 3k Hp tanked wirven on her 60s,sure she had a 60ish Cleric with purify,but still 5k Hp is quite safe unless he had elemental/evasion ornaments.
    The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
  • NomNomz - Dreamweaver
    NomNomz - Dreamweaver Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    yes. yes. yes.

    it used to take actual time to kill a TT boss with a team. not that there weren't players with high levels and great gear involved sometimes, but TT bosses have high defense and hp. more players high level or not would be very welcome in squad many times due to this. because instances were not being power farmed as they are today, the economy was quite a bit healthier.

    many people who really do not want to use an aps farming build have put one on a toon anyway (myself included), not because they really want to, but because these days on pw it is what it takes to stay competitive as far as making coins is concerned.

    the current trend of *get everything done as fast as possible and get out* has affected pw negatively in many ways, even to the point of pw releasing faction trials as a teamwork instance and many eligible faction members just not being interested in participating because it takes effort and time as a team to see results in the long term.

    the "just let people level the way they want to" argument does not hold any water IMHO, due to the fact that players who actually enjoy learning are forced a lot of the time to rely on players who could not care less (about any growth process - a n00b in other words) to acheive goals.

    and make no mistake. the way PW is designed these days, it caters to n00bs, it apparently does not matter to the devs at all as long as they get their pay.
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  • Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear
    Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear Posts: 420 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    yes its sad to see the bh squads fall to an all time low. its also worse than the platform sometimes too when some factions have high lvls to either tank or heal while they might tell ya that ya cant make a point to tell a lowbie that there are somethings tht ya dont do. much less havin lowbies say in fac chat that they only do faction bh runs cause of the bad experiences with random squads. if bms, seekers, barbs are geared the right way they should be able to tank 29/39/51 instead of always having a high lvl to do their job for them. Even with me on my seeker when he was in the 60s, could tank all 3 bosses. plus whenever i check someone elses gear its always the lowbie kind.

    lvl 29 arcane leggings from fb29

    elders blessing armor 1-2 pieces tht still have like 18-20 days left

    lvl 5-30 armor, ornaments and its mostly the weapon that is up to date

    it seems like the DD classes are better geared most times than the healers and tanks
    Mystic, Cleric, Barb, BM sometimes. Archer/Assassins- have better gear on mostly.

    plus im gettin the idea that the DD classes are doing the tanking and the tanks are the dds and the healing classes are just either standing looking dumb or get one shotted from a bosses aoe.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    So long story short,I recently created an alt,for fun,blah blah etc etc when I got to lv.40 and then 50 and then 60 this happens every time

    "LF BH29/39/51 squad"

    Either when I join a squad or I make one on my own 80% of times(And Im not giving away random numbers,I've been quite a few weeks at lv.50s and then 60s),there is some high level feeling"Helpful",or"Bored",or"Helping a faction mate/friend/whatever",or pick any random reason to do the BH....literally.
    When I say do the BH I mean that the high level usually destroys anything before players can even touch em,mobs,bosses,they all fall down so quickly and the few new players remaining(Not my case ofc),are like"ohhh kool thiz 5apz demon kool",and stuff like that(You get the idea).

    Personally, I don't really go on lower level BHs. I have been to some when someone I know asked me to come tank for them.
    Based on Seeker and BM's Hp they could tank pretty well(Didn't checked their equip but they had almost 5k Hp),surely without a Cleric Wyrven could have been some trouble,but again,they had enough Hp...etc etc.

    So in the end the Mystic didn't even bother to try and left squad,other followed without saying anything.

    Now,aren't new players such spoiled little brats?,don't you think when you're an high level helping on a lower BH that you should leave some mobs for the"nubs",to make them do their fair part too?,isn't all this baby-sitting new players on lower BHs kinda getting too far?

    Discuss ! :O (And I mean it)

    I don't think that's really that different. Back in the day it was always people "needing" a barb to tank Wyvern.

    As for being spoiled, obviously. With all the FCC sellers out there on WC, any new player has the realistic option of buying like 10$ worth of zen, turning that into Gold and buying heads until they hit 90+.

    Also, when I'm helping on a BH, I prefer to kill any mobs that are in the way for two reasons: 1. Because I'm much faster than the lower levels at it 2. Because some lower levels expect you to do it and if you don't you end up having to hear them give you **** about it.

    Of course, sometimes I do feel like stealthing to the bosses and telling the lowbies to get there while I afk at the bosses. Because really, the mobs aren't the problem.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    edited January 2012
    Precicely why I don't do random squads anymore. They don't get any better with higher levels either. It's pretty sad when you're heading into Brimstone with a 102 claw barb and he's like "wow, I've never been in here before. What do I do?" I did a better job tanking and I'm the freaking cleric!

    I used to be all about helping other people, but lately there's very few that I could even deem worthy of wasting my time on. They don't think you can do anything unless you have a 100+ totally cash-shopped sin/BM with uber gear. Hell, I tried starting a Delta the other day and half the faction thought you had to be 100+ just think about doing a full run. b:beatup I showed them it wasn't so by taking my 89 Seeker through a full run, and he's only got marginal 70's and 80's Legendary gear on.

    Seriously though, it's very rare to come across a genuinely new player in the game anywhere. Most of the time it's just another hyper noob on a hyper-noobed alt. They didn't learn to play the first time around and they aren't doing any better the second time.
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  • LyuKang - Sanctuary
    LyuKang - Sanctuary Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Not sure if this is on topic, but I've seen bh squads asking for aps bm/sins already...b:sad
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  • ItsAWolf - Archosaur
    ItsAWolf - Archosaur Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Also, when I'm helping on a BH, I prefer to kill any mobs that are in the way for two reasons: 1. Because I'm much faster than the lower levels at it 2. Because some lower levels expect you to do it and if you don't you end up having to hear them give you **** about it.

    It also saves a lot of time, because if you ever happen to miss one mob that you forget to kill, they WILL find it, run around with it for 5 minutes, end up dying, then fly back to the bh, because they lack to coin for teleport.
  • Blaxton - Raging Tide
    Blaxton - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I love having an at level squad when I do bh on my alts, but I always appreciate a high level offering to help and show my gratitude (if they are nice; dislike b*tchy squad members, whether high level or not :c ).

    It is a little annoying, however, when others insist on having a high level (or even two or more) when the squad would be fine as is. The challenge is a lot more fun and you can really learn what your character is capable of when the squad isn't 'perfect' or OP.

    One time someone asked me to help with a bh51. I said yes since I wasn't busy and do enjoy helping when I can. There were others in the squad at the level for the bh. One of them said if I were busy they could get their 100 5 aps demon Sin to solo it and kill bosses in less than 20 seconds, but I said it's ok, I'm not busy, I don't mind helping. Then about 5 seconds later, they and their alts in the squad left, so it was just me and the person who asked for help. Because apparently a 100+ anything other than a 5 aps demon Sin would be too slow to kill the bosses in bh51... >> And I'm 5 aps anyway...

    It's sad when people are spoiled by high levels helping.. but it's worse when they are spoiled by their own OP alt that they can't even appreciate someone else helping because it might be too slow for their standards... b:surrender
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Precicely why I don't do random squads anymore. They don't get any better with higher levels either. It's pretty sad when you're heading into Brimstone with a 102 claw barb and he's like "wow, I've never been in here before. What do I do?" I did a better job tanking and I'm the freaking cleric!

    A perfectly plausible case, actually. BH Brim is for the 90s as one of the rarer BHs. I personally never did BH89s on my sin, I would much rather to FCC. In fact, the only reason I've been to Eden on this sin was helping my friend during his cultivation.
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  • Ajiuo - Harshlands
    Ajiuo - Harshlands Posts: 708 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Not sure if this is on topic, but I've seen bh squads asking for aps bm/sins already...b:sad

    Lul i've seen this on HL too, only like twice tho... But it's still bad. I hope they put a cd on sparks or something soon to get rid of this aps-faze over and done with.
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  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sometimes the high levels are a little TOO helpful. One time I was (as a 60s-70s level venomancer) tanking Nightspike for someone in faction when along came a high level archer (who was going to tank for someone else who hadn't even arrived yet) who decided to speed things up... and ended up stealing aggro and the kill. I ended up getting the guy he was going to help in my squad, and not accepting help from the arrogant archer.
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  • SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I didn't read the whole post this time, but I will agree that some new players are spoiled. My main is a cleric, and I have the heart of a barb, so I like to tank instances. Admittingly, I am guilty of killing mobs before the lower leveled players have a chance to even touch then. Heck, In bh39, I pull the halls with the poison and physical mobs, and tempest them all, just as I would grind spiders, as well as pull and siren's/razor feathers the exploding mobs. I don't even bother pulling with my zeal in lower instances because I can handle the aggro. That said, I know its a bit of a bad habit of mines at times, so what I've done is this...

    If a squad is virtually ready to go, I don't pm, because I do feel that they need to learn the class and instance mechanics.

    If an individual has been looking for a long time with no luck, I tend to help. Now this where one of my gripes come in. I always ask them to look for more while I clear. 8/10, they look for 5 minutes, and then are running in there after me as I'm clearing, since they know I can tank it easily at my level. My thing is that, I volunteered to help people, not just one, so if all I asked you to do was to look for some more people, try to at least check for more. Don't get greedy because they might need Farren while you need calcid. I've seen this happen in the higher bh's too.

    Also, if I pm you, and say, I'll help you if you can get another cleric so that I can tank (often in bh51 or 59.), then don't ignore my request and just get whoever, then kick a mystic because they needed an fb while you needed a bh. I'll drop squad and help the mystic. (I'm venting some because this really did happen. A friend of mines dropped too, because we felt it was wrong to kick because of that.)

    Ok. Venting aside, Yes...A lot of them are getting spoiled.

    Looking for HIGH LEVELED ONLY to tank. (I will never respond to this.)

    Looking for 4-5 aps to tank. (I won't respond to this.)

    Looking for help on bh xx. (I'll respond to this, and even teach some about their class as well. I like to get the bosses hp down to half, and let them finish it off...mainly in 19,29, and 39 though. I have to keep attacking in 51 and 59.)

    I might be off topic, but I'm hungry, am eating and breezed through the initial reading.

    Oh, and its happened rarely, but I have seen bh squads lf help and asking for a high leveled player to link their weapon.
    "Male Player using female toon. Please don't flirt with me."

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  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Lul i've seen this on HL too, only like twice tho... But it's still bad. I hope they put a cd on sparks or something soon to get rid of this aps-faze over and done with.

    People even link their weapons now if they seek a BH squad, have seen many who do that.
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    when you tell people directly that something is more challanging or fun *this way* they often tend to say

    1. i dont want challange/fun, i wanna lvl/dont wanna die/want coin/want this done fast only

    as if the game was a job


    people are just being lame pussies all over

    - QQ i died in warsong cause you aoed all the mobs
    - QQ wow my charm ticked cause you pulled so many mobs in sot
    - we need wine!!!111



    best squads are those involving a barb who will pull all mobs up to the BH boss and bring it all at once including a boss!



    and those spoiled people who cant do their low lvl bhs on their own will be the same people who would pull single mobs in bh warsong later


    take no risk, try not to die, dont waste coin, GET NO FUN
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  • CritCat - Archosaur
    CritCat - Archosaur Posts: 608 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I remember soloing a 60ish's psychic's BHes in PandoraBX for a long time. We got him to 70, then he asked for us to do his TTs FOR HIM. I never did his TT runs, but I did end up having to solo almost every BH he did. I'd always ask for him to get a squad.

    When he got his gear handed to him he just quit. Never came back.

    Worldchat:
    XX:LFS BH51
    XX:LFS BH51
    5 minutes later:

    XX whispers: hey can u pls halp me

    I had to single-handedly solo almost one of his 51s or he would whine, moan and complain about it to fac. I forgot why the leader didn't just boot him.

    Edit: I see ALOT less BH squads being worldchatted for, but I see more people at BH place in Archosaur.
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    Current Wizard Build:
    pwcalc.com/068f7e40791a3be6
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I guess I lucked out and I just do the damn runs for my alts with my BM...I don't trust random squads anymore. (Not since my psychic needed his fb89 brim done for his culti and they killed all the bosses before I even got near it to tab or get the kill....)


    As for other squads when I help...it depends on the instance...anything at 69 or above I tell the person they better wine the instance so that we can avoid the issues it'll cause without it for the rest of the squad. (Mainly in 69 cause of how many mobs per hall there is, and then in 79 you got all the damn runners xD)

    Usually when I help it's from world chatting "Lvl 101 5.0 *Links claws* +10 BM, BORED AS ****. NEED SOMETHING TO DO!" and that is when my PM's get flooded >.>
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]