regular nirvy??

Amp, Ironwood and Myriad Rainbow, DD when those are in cooldown.

additionally put extreme poison on your genie
pets are annoying at best in nirvana, keep it in the bag.

This is just from my experience with veno's in squad (Minus the annoying ones...):


1. Amp, Purge, Ironwood, and Myriad Rainbow. These are the top wanted skills based on effects and damage done.

2. Please, PLEASE, leave that pet of yours in the bag. It may be a "DD" pet but compared to the squad (especially if it's APS) it's just a hiderance as the boss will normally chase it's *** when it does it's AoE seal (all of the bosses do this, even the double drops)

3. On the Chicken boss (Lovingly refered to as KFC), you may leave the pet out and in a stationary (Not moving or following you) position as to hope to have it attract the fire away from the DD and yourself.

4. On second boss he does a self buff, if not killed fast enough, that will literally take his damage down to the 100-500 range instead of 5-xxxx k range (idk how hard sin's can crit hit in NV >_>)

5. BRAMBLE DOES WORK IN NV. USE IT.

6. KEEP CHI AT THE READY. Mainly for the BM's in squad, so as to keep them from having to go hit the NPC for chi after each boss just transfer a spark (or two based on sage/demon path) to the bm who is going to dragons first on the next boss.

7. Final boss: Dig chests. Usually the veno will be one of the fastest members of the squad without having to use holy path or speed pots. So you will normally be told to dig if the squad doesn't kill the boss fast enough to avoid a spawn appearing. (http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/boss-nirvana.php scroll down to the end of that page, for the last boss information on chests. The page also explains each other boss too)

8. Unless you are banker, or the squad is somehow set on random, DO NOT LOOT ANY OF THE CHESTS. (This is the number one thing that will **** off the majority of squad leaders)

9. If you got a genie that can hold at least 4 skills (most people do), that isn't your main genie (for PvP, or other PvE purposes) take and use it to get all the possible amps and debuffs you can fit onto it (Tangling mire, Extreme Poison, etc). This will make people in NV very happy as it saves them from having to use their own genie and can instead use it to focus on domain, cloud erupt, or other higher end skills that might save the squad from having to restart a boss cause of a imminent wipe.

10. Overall, just let the squad know it's your first time doing NV and that you are new to 100. Most people will be happy to explain any other questions you may have along the way.



P.S. Welcome to the 100 club and 24/7 NV

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Amp, Ironwood and Myriad Rainbow, DD when those are in cooldown.

So it would be okay to be a 4.0 sage veno right? As long as you do these debuffs, then switch to claws for 28 seconds, switch weapon and repeat?

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

additionally put extreme poison on your genie
pets are annoying at best in nirvana, keep it in the bag.

I do not really agree with your suggestion about keeping them in bag, I think it would be more useful if they used threaten, claw buff maybe a plus as well.

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

This is just from my experience with veno's in squad (Minus the annoying ones...):


1. Amp, Purge, Ironwood, and Myriad Rainbow. These are the top wanted skills based on effects and damage done.

2. Please, PLEASE, leave that pet of yours in the bag. It may be a "DD" pet but compared to the squad (especially if it's APS) it's just a hiderance as the boss will normally chase it's *** when it does it's AoE seal (all of the bosses do this, even the double drops)

3. On the Chicken boss (Lovingly refered to as KFC), you may leave the pet out and in a stationary (Not moving or following you) position as to hope to have it attract the fire away from the DD and yourself.

4. On second boss he does a self buff, if not killed fast enough, that will literally take his damage down to the 100-500 range instead of 5-xxxx k range (idk how hard sin's can crit hit in NV >_>)

5. BRAMBLE DOES WORK IN NV. USE IT.

6. KEEP CHI AT THE READY. Mainly for the BM's in squad, so as to keep them from having to go hit the NPC for chi after each boss just transfer a spark (or two based on sage/demon path) to the bm who is going to dragons first on the next boss.

7. Final boss: Dig chests. Usually the veno will be one of the fastest members of the squad without having to use holy path or speed pots. So you will normally be told to dig if the squad doesn't kill the boss fast enough to avoid a spawn appearing. (http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/boss-nirvana.php scroll down to the end of that page, for the last boss information on chests. The page also explains each other boss too)

8. Unless you are banker, or the squad is somehow set on random, DO NOT LOOT ANY OF THE CHESTS. (This is the number one thing that will **** off the majority of squad leaders)

9. If you got a genie that can hold at least 4 skills (most people do), that isn't your main genie (for PvP, or other PvE purposes) take and use it to get all the possible amps and debuffs you can fit onto it (Tangling mire, Extreme Poison, etc). This will make people in NV very happy as it saves them from having to use their own genie and can instead use it to focus on domain, cloud erupt, or other higher end skills that might save the squad from having to restart a boss cause of a imminent wipe.

10. Overall, just let the squad know it's your first time doing NV and that you are new to 100. Most people will be happy to explain any other questions you may have along the way.



P.S. Welcome to the 100 club and 24/7 NV

Great guide! Should definetely be stickied!!!

Jin_Wang - Lost City wrote: »

I do not know what you mean when I am "trolling"

If it is going fist build, that I simply asked a question. I am well aware of buffs and know when to switch weapons. That is a question I am asking... If you mean this is "trolling" or silly, then that's what is on your mind.

If it is disagreeing with a statement, disagreeing and trolling are two different things. Seems you are comfortable with people who actually "troll" and you cannot tell the difference anymore. Just because I disagree with something, does not mean I am trolling, or anyone else that disagrees.

Thank you, have a good day.

You don't seem to have played a veno at all in your time here at Perfect World International.


Please come back to this thread when you have played a veno to lvl 100 and actually understand the class.



If you don't understand NV, yet do have a high level veno then you may respond to this and I will explain fully what I meant by my post.

About keeping your pet in bag....
well yes it does run when sealed but if you have it on manual and you're fast enough to press follow the pet will come back and not run.

I tend to stay close to my pet (unless it's the boss that spawns fire) so when it's sealed I call it back automatically, by instinct, and most of the time the boss doesn't run at all (after the pet).

As for the chicken boss, ranged pet is the way to go. It doesn't need to be called back because of the fire for the majority of time (unless you have an unlucky run that fire keeps spawning on it) so it's able to deal damage, pretty much, non-stop.

Consider what's in the squad: A Barb using Devour isn't going to be happy about it being over written by Ironwood.

Don't fight from range if boss has random aggro unless its' bird boss: you often don't save yourself from getting hit anyway, you just draw bosses away upsetting permasparks, HFs, etc. Being right on boss lets them recover aggro faster.

Ranged pet is perfect for bird boss second to last.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, I admit I'm not nirvy level - but I also don't see the trolling.

Fist veno (human form) does pretty much the same damage as any other fist class - we don't have special skills for fists, but spasm APSers don't use skills anyway.

So DDing with fists while the debuffs are in cooldown doesn't sound like a completely stupid idea to me. You can hotkey (and macro most of) 'switch weapons, fox, amp, myriad, defox, switch weapons' - would it be as good as, or better than, throwing ironwood and lucky and noxious while the debuffs are on cooldown? I don't know. But I don't think it's trolling to ask.

The reason I said behind trolling is that if he had taken the time to read my original post in this thread he would of come to an understanding as to why a pet should stay in the bag.

As for the APS veno, I personally don't care as I know veno's can do every armor and every fighting style in this game if the person behind the veno has either the time or money to invest into making it. So it's a whatever zone for my own cares.

Now as for what to do during the cooldown times, most veno's I see will normally start spamming their faster cooldown skills (usually the begginer skills and such), and then just repeat the process of debuffs and spam skills.

As for Ironwood, if you have a barb in squad (since the debuff is the same, and truthfully the barbs debuff is better) you can get away with not using it. Noxious....I really don't see a use to this skill unless it's on the third boss (one that will spawn foxes the moment it is attacked), to drop when the bm will drop dragons on the foxes to get a near instakill. Lucky is a skill that, like the name persuades, is luck based; What is really wanted from it is the armor break debuf, which will take a normal BM (this is example purpose) damage hits of averaging say 50k per the 15 seconds of spark to near double at 100k per spark (again, just a basic example) since the p.def of the boss goes to 0 while the armor break debuff is on it.

But again I will state, if you wish to use APS on a veno and use that veno in Nirvana, please also be able to be ready to switch between human and fox form for the amps and debuffs (based on the squad) that will be needed.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

About keeping your pet in bag....
well yes it does run when sealed but if you have it on manual and you're fast enough to press follow the pet will come back and not run.

I tend to stay close to my pet (unless it's the boss that spawns fire) so when it's sealed I call it back automatically, by instinct, and most of the time the boss doesn't run at all (after the pet).

As for the chicken boss, ranged pet is the way to go. It doesn't need to be called back because of the fire for the majority of time (unless you have an unlucky run that fire keeps spawning on it) so it's able to deal damage, pretty much, non-stop.

Desdi, I thank you for giving out the information on this. I had personally forgot that you could control a pet (mainly, because the last time I played my veno was 09 <.<...and my mystic is so far beyond the lvl of the mobs it has to kill I don't even have to think about the pet, just heal it). Also that is a good tip with how to use the pets natural abilties to the best advantage for the squad.

thumbs wrote: »

Consider what's in the squad: A Barb using Devour isn't going to be happy about it being over written by Ironwood.

Don't fight from range if boss has random aggro unless its' bird boss: you often don't save yourself from getting hit anyway, you just draw bosses away upsetting permasparks, HFs, etc. Being right on boss lets them recover aggro faster.

Ranged pet is perfect for bird boss second to last.

thumbs is very right on this, most people will (and I have personally done this) kick squad members that are causing issues with killing the bosses. Either by way of disrupting the cycle of spark -> dragon -> spark, picking up drops when they shouldn't, or by some other means (I can't remember all of the things i've seen people get kicked for, and I normally will only kick somebody if they are being a ******).

As for KFC...all I will tell you is the fire damage does stack, it does hit 2500-2501 damage during each of it's cycles to hit, so unless you have a charm or a buttload of a hp pool then don't try to tank the fires.

Lucky is a skill that, like the name persuades, is luck based; What is really wanted from it is the armor break debuf, which will take a normal BM (this is example purpose) damage hits of averaging say 50k per the 15 seconds of spark to near double at 100k per spark (again, just a basic example) since the p.def of the boss goes to 0 while the armor break debuff is on it.

Lucky doesn't do an armor break... if you're lucky, it stuns (useless on bosses.) It's demon ironwood and the myriad rainbows that can (if you're lucky) cause an armor break (or a mind break, in the case of the rainbows... not that you phys types care about that.)

Also...since when did Armor break get over-written by devour?

Since forever... it's the same debuff icon (pdef reduction.)

As for seekers attack/defense lvl decrease...to my knowledge a barb doesn't have ANY skill that can do something like that...

ecatomb wrote:

○Devour
Available in tiger form
Range Melee
Mana 120.0
Channel 0.2 seconds
Cast 1.0 seconds
Cooldown 6.0 seconds
Weapon Axe, Poleaxe, Hammer or Polehammer, Unarmed

Requisite Cultivation Aware of the Void
Snap at the opponent, dealing base physical damage plus 3317.0.
Reduces enemy's physical defense by 50% for 15 seconds,
and increases your threat level.
Reduce target's attack level by 15 for 4 seconds.

Requires 35 Chi

Demon version increases physical defense reduction to 15 seconds.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lucky doesn't do an armor break... if you're lucky, it stuns (useless on bosses.) It's demon ironwood and the myriad rainbows that can (if you're lucky) cause an armor break (or a mind break, in the case of the rainbows... not that you phys types care about that.)



Since forever... it's the same debuff icon (pdef reduction.)

Well I always like to learn for the classes I run with, thanks for updating me on that barb information. I haven't really gotten into playing one seriously (make one every now and then to waste time playing around on, but never get them past lvl 10).
As for the skills, I personally didn't notice the different names when I have veno's in squad, I just ask that they spam their Amp (fox form) and any sort of debuffs they can think of onto the boss.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Noxious, even on a single target, does more damage than venomous. Especially if it's not immune to the poison. Same with lucky - if you're spamming DD, you use them. (Even though, as others point out, the stun won't happen on bosses)



Sure. But myriad is a 30s cooldown.

Not disagreeing with anything you said about the pets (not been in there, so I don't know, and your advice sounds perfectly reasonable) - but the question asked was "Can I claw DD while my debuffs are in cooldown" and it seems the answer might be yes.

Personally I see veno's spamming venomous more often than noxious when it comes to the bosses in Nirvana, which I can understand based on which have a quicker cooldown (not really too much damage wise, but more for other cooldown timers).

Well the pet's are just an issue I personally have with a lot of veno's. I do understand that it provides anothe source of DD, but in truth when the bosses do an AoE seal the majority of the time a veno's pet is DD'ing (unless the veno is a master of controling that pet) the boss will always run away to chase the pet (since the random aggro is more situated to which target is doing the least damage).

As for your APS question, I personally wouldn't mind it. Though other squads might have issues with it, so it will depend on who is squad leader and what they have as a preset in their mind for each class is "supppose" to do in nirvana (and don't be worried if you get kicked for something in nirvana out of the blue, usually it's because the squad leader is either a stuborn idiot or just a raging elistist).

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ironwood->amp->myraid(fox)->by then everyone woulda spark, pass chi to bm so he can hf w/o using genie chi skill(its not a big deal but its an extra nice thing->myraid human->dd->repeat

genie skill: tangle mire and extreme poison, AD.

That's an interesting tip that I didn't really consider. Most people don't really expect me to pass chi (speaking of general) and they use their genie anyway until I tell them I can provide them with chi when needed.

I usually save my sparks for Parasitic Nova, the demon version has a mini Amplfiy/HF effect and it's a nice follow up after the Blademaster/the two Blademasters have used their HF.

But when there are three Blademasters I have no time to use Demon Parasitic Nova without overwriting/being overwritten so I'll see how I can put into use your tip.

As for genie, yes those skills are essential and are equiped on my genie with extra Dex points for increased duration on EP and a few Str for Mire.

@Perses - I will have to agree that the few times I run Nirvanas as a Cleric with a Venomancer in squad the pet poses quite an issue but I think, at least as far as the players in Sanctuary are concerned, don't seem to be bothered by it in the sense that they're probably so used to it that they think "this is just how things are" b:chuckle

It's even funnier when they use the Hercules at bird boss and see it die constantly and them wasting time reviving it b:laugh

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Noxious, even on a single target, does more damage than venomous. Especially if it's not immune to the poison. Same with lucky - if you're spamming DD, you use them. (Even though, as others point out, the stun won't happen on bosses)



Sure. But myriad is a 30s cooldown..

Both myraids have a 20 sec cooldown... and
when DDing on a boss
lvl 11 Iron> demon lucky >sage lucky> sage nox > demon nox> lvl 11 venomous > lvl 10 nox
This is mostly what I think considering cooldowns, channeling, and damage.. I dont recommend using noxious on a single target unless you have demon/sage versions, but it does give 20 chi so it is better than using Blazing at least. Noxious get better if you have more channeling but the DoT part that cant crit and isnt affected by Jones Blessing.
edit: Oh, and I didnt bother doing any skills lvl 10 other than nox, cause I wanted to compare it to sage/demon nox and all the skills I use are demon, and most people have iron/venomous cause they're cheap anyways.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I will certainly keep that in mind. It helps even more that HF has the same cooldown as Amplify/Parasitic Nova so I can keep track.

And..usually...when I form Nirvana together with a friend who is Blademaster, we tend to have mostly Blademasters. When I form Nirvana together with another friend that is an Assassin, we tend to have more Assassins O.o (when we're all together it's even XD)but overall Sanctuary seems to count on Assassins more, at least last time I run multi Nirvana during 2x but I think multiple Heaven's Flames are just win!

When I make squads I normally end up (on average) with a 3 bm, 2 sin, 1 extra type squad (extra is either a cleric, barb, veno, wizard, psychic, archer, or w/e)


When I join squads it tends to be 2 sins, 4 bm's or 4 sins and 2 bms.


Either way bosses drop dead in no time flat as long as the bm who is after me knows how to dragons....(Last time I let somebody dragons ahead of me it got me kicked outta a squad cause the ****er didn't dragons at the start of the boss and then hit his ****ing dragons right after mine started channeling)

RayTheQueen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i really do not see the point of a veno in nirvana it just slows down the run. all u need is a couple of decent sins a cleric and a bm for the heavens flame on the few bosses u can use it on.

You, sir, are an idiot. Big time. lol