tokens

They'll be back down to 10k at the next pack sale... it's what happens to anything the week AFTER something's finished a "sale".

Because tokens play such an important role in the game now, it does mean lots of prices of token made items also increase or become rare, so unlike dragon orb sales or flyer sales, it does affect the whole economy significantly more.

I totally called this.

"Stop having *good* packs on sale, we want the gold prices to go down!"

Wish granted!

"WTF! Tokens are expensive now! b:angry"

Yes, tokens are more expensive now, but look on the bright side! Gold prices went down! b:chuckle

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

I totally called this.

"Stop having *good* packs on sale, we want the gold prices to go down!"

Wish granted!

"WTF! Tokens are expensive now! b:angry"

Yes, tokens are more expensive now, but look on the bright side! Gold prices went down! b:chuckle

Yeh, I find it kind of funny when people demand things and then complain when it happens because they didn't expect there to be a "ripple effect".

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Our server is in shambles. All tokens are horded and only 2-3 shops are really selling any good quantity, but obviously people are still blindly using them at an alarming rate with no one opening packs to resupply. If they go a 2 weeks without a major pack sale I call def-con 5 on our server.

Hmm... if that's true, then there's a simple solution: get a smart merchant on your server to collapse the market.

When prices are that much out of whack, then it means ludicrously easy profits for smart merchants, at the expense of the greedy ones.

For example, right now I'm collapsing the Pack market on Lost City, but the same method could be used on the Token market. On Sanctuary, Pack prices went up by a reasonable 15% after the sale ended, but on Lost City prices went up by an unreasonable 50%. To me, that's a sign of greedy merchants who need their market collapsed. b:chuckle

Since I have an experimental alt on Lost City I've been playing with, I set-up selling 10% of my total stock and under-cut everybody on Lost City by charging a "mere" 25% (still massive profits, IMHO), hoping to get bought out by the competition, and sure enough, they bought me. So I set-up again. And they bought me out again.

By tricking them into buying me out, I take their money and they get stuck with stock they can't sell for a profit. That's the basic method of how to collapse a market.

The third time I set-up they didn't buy me out, but I did get a long rambling bunch of, "how u get so many pack?!?", "wher r u getting them all?", "how many pack u still have!?!", etc...., comments in my shop. At that point, all the competition moved away from my shop.

What they want is to buy me out and keep prices high, but I'm going to keep collapsing their market and selling for cheap (I've only sold 1/4 of my stock so far), and when a new Pack sale appears they'll end up taking a big loss from making the mistake of trying to buy me out, plus they won't have sold their stock for a profit in-time. Meanwhile, I'm making criminal amounts of profits on their server by offering the best prices.

Too bad for me, though, that the Sanctuary merchants aren't as easy to push around... b:surrender

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmm... if that's true, then there's a simple solution: get a smart merchant on your server to collapse the market.

When prices are that much out of whack, then it means ludicrously easy profits for smart merchants, at the expense of the greedy ones.

For example, right now I'm collapsing the Pack market on Lost City, but the same method could be used on the Token market. On Sanctuary, Pack prices went up by a reasonable 15% after the sale ended, but on Lost City prices went up by an unreasonable 50%. To me, that's a sign of greedy merchants who need their market collapsed. b:chuckle

Since I have an experimental alt on Lost City I've been playing with, I set-up selling 10% of my total stock and under-cut everybody on Lost City by charging a "mere" 25% (still massive profits, IMHO), hoping to get bought out by the competition, and sure enough, they bought me. So I set-up again. And they bought me out again.

By tricking them into buying me out, I take their money and they get stuck with stock they can't sell for a profit. That's the basic method of how to collapse a market.

The third time I set-up they didn't buy me out, but I did get a long rambling bunch of, "how u get so many pack?!?", "wher r u getting them all?", "how many pack u still have!?!", etc...., comments in my shop. At that point, all the competition moved away from my shop.

What they want is to buy me out and keep prices high, but I'm going to keep collapsing their market and selling for cheap (I've only sold 1/4 of my stock so far), and when a new Pack sale appears they'll end up taking a big loss from making the mistake of trying to buy me out, plus they won't have sold their stock for a profit in-time. Meanwhile, I'm making criminal amounts of profits on their server by offering the best prices.

Too bad for me, though, that the Sanctuary merchants aren't as easy to push around... b:surrender

I stocked up on tokens, but didn't liquidate enough assets to be able to buy out all the tokens like another merchant did on our server. He basically (5 days before sale went out) bought about 60k tokens and no one had any. This already started to drive prices up a lot. From there no one had tokens and now no one is supplying the shops with tokens (but everyone keeps buying them at the same rate) so tokens shot up 7k the last 2 days. I was thinking on buying out about 50k tokens and hording them and sell them at this time but I was a little behind and missed out on massive profit. Now all you see near west banker is about 10 shops over cutting each other to buy out those few thousand we get a day. It's going to get ugly in another 3-4 days. There's no one that can really collapse it back down at this point.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sounds like you certainly had the right idea.

I should have clarified that at this point, it's of course too late. But next time there's a Pack sale, then obviously you should stock up on Tokens like crazy.

The Token hoarder may have gotten away with it this time, but if enough merchants stock up beforehand, and he fails to buy them all out, then the Token market will collapse and those who caused it to collapse will end up walking away with a huge chunk of the manipulator's wealth.

Hoarding is, by its very nature, risky for the hoarder, because if somebody moves to undercut you, you won't know you're beaten until they've taken all your money and prices have collapsed. By that point it's too late to avoid taking a huge loss.

By contrast, if you know there's a hoarder, and you're moving to undercut them, then there's virtually no risk to you. If you fail to collapse their market, you still walk away with a tidy profit anyway. But if you do succeed, you can put the other guy right out of business.

My advice is, next time, be that merchant who causes the market to collapse, because it's very profitable to be that guy. b:victory

There was no knowledge it was going to happen, all of a sudden he had 60k tokens when he never sold tokens before and he bought every shop he could find the day before I could. You win some and you lose some, but not a biggy there will always be a next time.

b:pleased

lordmot wrote: »

The one thing that is different about tokens is that their price has a floor at 9,999. I spent most of December buying tokens at 9,800 and converting to wine to sell at 9,999. Modest profit, but I would turn my inventory several times a day, and the going price was only 50-100 coins over the wine price anyway, so I figured I was ahead. I just lucked out that I was in the buying stage when the pack sale ended, so I figured I'd just sit on the inventory till the next sale. My usual policy is not to pay more than 9900 for tokens. That way there is ZERO risk in losing money. I'm on Dreamweaver and when the Uber-Hoarder made his move to corner the market, token prices spiked at around 22K! I kept a thousand for my own use, but the rest of my inventory I sold at 19K - essentially doubling my moneyb:victory. I almost fell prey to the temptation to start buying tokens at 15K, which was the going rate for buying last night, but fortunately I decided to wait. The price today is back down to a somewhat more reasonable 14-15K sell price - except for the Uber-Hoarder, who is still trying to sell for his 30,000+ tokens at 19K, and not selling much.

Arguably one of the worse and inefficient methods of making money, don't ever do that again. Those tokens could have been sold after the pack sale.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

Arguably one of the worse and inefficient methods of making money, don't ever do that again. Those tokens could have been sold after the pack sale.

Perhaps you misunderstand. During the pack sale, that was my method. Each Tuesday before Maint, I would make sure I was fully stocked with tokens, just in case the pack sale ended. When I saw that is was still on, I would continue. I ended up going from 20mil starting money to over 100mil by the time the pack sale ended. Then doubled that last night.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

you jumped from 20-100mil simply by a profit margin of roughly at the most 100 coins each token?? I did not misunderstand you at all, I understand perfectly fine and it just doesn't make any sense. what you coulda done was exercise pack merchanting as it would have fetch you about around 15-20k profit a pack, or 1*orbs if u didnt have enough gold, either way those methods coulda been far far more effective.

You're probably right, but I'm still kinda new to merchanting and haven't graduated to the big-money stuff yet. And yes, I was only making 1% on tokens, but there were days that I would make that 1% 3 or 4 times an hour, while I was playing on my main. Even 1%, with the power of compounding, eventually adds up to a tidy sum, and I didn't have to worry about keeping constant track of gold prices. Next pack sale I'll try my hand at that, now that I have enough to buy the "quantity discount" packs.

I'm doing what WarrenWolfy is suggesting with Rep, right now.

Had nine freaking alts full of badges.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I actually, I think I had 11 alts. 11 x 48 x 100 = 52,800 badges.

I'm selling them at 30% - 40% profit right now.


The question is whether or not I can sell them all before the next badge sale. I did just get my cleric to R8 last night, so that used up a bunch.

selling at that profit margin...is it moving fast over there with the competition and their immediate supply considered? personally I dislike selling badges cuz there's just simply too many people with R8 by now in Lost City, not sure what the market is like over there in HT

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Is it only dreamweaver or did tokens go up in price in every server?

I noticed as 2x ended there was a ton of tokens at 10.1k and I even bought a couple thousand just so I would have enough for wines and such. My geuss is that some rich merchants bought them all up an just put them back for sale at higher, I really can't imagine that "supply" is dictating a price doubling just because the packs are slightly more now. tokens were not this price when packs were this price last time for instance.

Anyways, is it just dreamweaver or is everywhere plagued by merchants.

i thought it was going higher cause the amount of pack sale variety was low now ;o

it was all madness and paranoia, people bought the ****
more the merchants than the normal people

result now is having many fked up catshops still selling for 23, 19 or whatever (bought 15, 16)
while other catshops are at 15 again



i did buy all the rest i could see in pack catshops and sold them for 50k more the other day, but when i read what wolfy does i rather not do that again next sale b:shocked


stopped catshopping for 3 months(?) since i had no constant internet and now it seems every other cat/lighter/moo/fish/:3 is richer than mine QQ

i fell for the token rush and bought some overpriced tokens after i was soldout, im sitting on them now lalala,

hope for no pack sale next week or sell with loss hmm...
i wait a few days maybe it goes up again :P




btw fexcat, aint u the "lolnoob" shop who would spam worldchat all the time
herp derp packs 450k
you name your shop 450k but your stuff is 459k

are people really that stupid? - uhm nevermind, i know the answer

lordmot wrote: »

You're probably right, but I'm still kinda new to merchanting and haven't graduated to the big-money stuff yet. And yes, I was only making 1% on tokens, but there were days that I would make that 1% 3 or 4 times an hour, while I was playing on my main. Even 1%, with the power of compounding, eventually adds up to a tidy sum, and I didn't have to worry about keeping constant track of gold prices.

DON'T second-guess for your actions! No offense to TheUnderLord, but in his advice he falls victim to a common merchanting blunder. What you did with the Tokens was absolutely correct.

Waiting until after the sale to sell the Tokens for a single, large markup would have been a mistake, and it's one that the vast majority of players make. I made it myself in my early days of merchanting, until somebody on the forums was kind enough to share with me their strategy instead.

Repeatedly selling an item during a sale, again and again, for just a little bit of profit each time, is absolutely the right way to quickly go from being poor to being rich in this game. In fact, I wrote a whole section of my merchanting guide dedicated to the tactic.

The fact that you used the Token NPC exchange to do it just shows you were resourceful. Maybe there were better profits to be had, but you found something that was working, and you ran with it. Good for you!

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

cmon man that's just simply unethical lol small supply has to have a higher price at 570k

Heh... Sorry to rain on your profits, but in my experience, the little guys make their profits during the sale, while the lumbering behemoths make theirs after the sale.

Depending on the type of merchant (low, medium, high capital), we each take turns dominating sales. It's just the circle of merchant life. b:chuckle

And it's honestly not personal. I'm not liquidating them just for fun, or just to hurt everybody else. I have a very specific reason that I feel I need to sell them by a certain date, and even with the deep-discounts I'm still not meeting my sales targets. I'm still over-stocked by 1000s of Packs, so the price-slashing will be continuing until they're all sold...

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm doing what WarrenWolfy is suggesting with Rep, right now.

Had nine freaking alts full of badges.

Heh heh heh...

Like what Michael_Dark said, stock-piling alts full of Badges seemed like a really great idea until I actually had to sell them all...

If memory serves, I think I had 18 alts full of them at one point (7 on my merchanting account, 6 on my main account, and 5 more on Lost City). Profits were huge, but it nearly drove me to drinking!

It was worth it the one time (because it nearly doubled my net worth!), but after it was finally over I vowed never again... b:surrender