Cleric Vs. Sin

I_skateboard - Harshlands
I_skateboard - Harshlands Posts: 156 Arc User
edited January 2012 in Cleric
This is my Gear http://pwcalc.com/e7cbe56f9f4e56c4

I have ok gear, how do i win duels vsing a sin or out pvping?
Post edited by I_skateboard - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Not quite sure about "ok gears" since your p.def is definatly low .
    Cleric doesn't win duel vs a sin . No matter what your gears are (unless you use genie, but really genie in duel ? -.-) As for pvp, i doubt you can take a few hit from any sin .
  • I_skateboard - Harshlands
    I_skateboard - Harshlands Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Hmm even with buffs?b:pleased
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    b:surrender sadly yes
  • I_skateboard - Harshlands
    I_skateboard - Harshlands Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    QQ, I guess i must refine b:cry
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Your belt is a good piece probably start with this one xD . And better shard garnet in a few other piece of armor . If you're planning to get another necklace +5 shoud be decent enough on this one .

    But yes for duel, we are meant to lose . Simply because they wont start a duel without having all there skills (none in cooldown), full chi... etc
    You will pretty much end up being stunlocked . Unless they make a mistake, then you can maybe win it (but you need to reconize if they have deaven nerved or tidal protection on) . I probably won only one duel with all those i did... it was some random luck xD . Talking about same level sin ofc .

    For pvp, its a different story since there is no restriction about apo/def charm/genie...
  • Prophete - Dreamweaver
    Prophete - Dreamweaver Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Since when there are restrictions on genie during duels?
    That's like a rule created by sins lol.

    Your only way to consider winning a duel vs a sin is using a genie.
  • Mi$ta - Heavens Tear
    Mi$ta - Heavens Tear Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Since when there are restrictions on genie during duels?
    That's like a rule created by sins lol.

    Your only way to consider winning a duel vs a sin is using a genie.

    It's been like, an unspoken rule since before sins. o_o
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Since when there are restrictions on genie during duels?
    That's like a rule created by sins lol.

    Your only way to consider winning a duel vs a sin is using a genie.

    Lol you really using genie in duel ? Why not Sutra/IG/Shadow Binder/Vacuity and what else again... ?
    Sanctuary server dont use genie in duel, else you're the big lol of the day . Why ? Duel is more a DD test, testing skills and all those kind of stuffs . Duel doesnt take charm in consediration but it does for bramble guard and hood . Dueling someone wont give you a clue of any real open pvp situation .
  • Prophete - Dreamweaver
    Prophete - Dreamweaver Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    That's just ridiculous.

    If you follow this unspoken rule, then I fully agree with you, we are meant to lose.
    There is NO WAY you can win if you don't use genie / apo.

    Or maybe there's a unspoken rule that allows cleric to start at max range, with plume shell and WoS on, and a full IH stack?
    In my opinion, you have far more fun and you'll learn a lot more if you use anything available in a duel.
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    It's not that ridiculous . I can't win a duel vs a sin but doesnt mean i can't kill that same sin in open pvp . I can defeat mostly any class but sin in duel without using any genie skills .
    I learned how to kite a BM in duel without using any genie skills and being stunlocked . It actually teach you how to use your own skills without always relaying on genie .
  • Mekkhala - Lost City
    Mekkhala - Lost City Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That's just ridiculous.

    If you follow this unspoken rule, then I fully agree with you, we are meant to lose.
    There is NO WAY you can win if you don't use genie / apo.

    Or maybe there's a unspoken rule that allows cleric to start at max range, with plume shell and WoS on, and a full IH stack?
    In my opinion, you have far more fun and you'll learn a lot more if you use anything available in a duel.



    It's a unspoken rule on Lost City too. When genies first came out it was considered "noob" to use them in a duel. The opinion was that good players could win the old fashioned way without using the new skills.
  • Karen_Divine - Sanctuary
    Karen_Divine - Sanctuary Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    why waste apoths and genie in a duel. Granted I will use a genie when playing with an r9 archer just for the fun of it, but otherwise using a genie is a waste. Spark, AD, IG, DD congrats you won a duel, not really much of duel and you waste a pot.

    As for dueling sins ya we have no chance unless its an OP cleric. Your best bet is plume shell, wings, Guardian light, run out of stun range and try to 1hit xD
  • VKnightV - Lost City
    VKnightV - Lost City Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    na use genie in duel and ppl mentallity have changed so much that you wont a see bm using axe and learning how to stun lock with them they will go for what work easiest and that is stun aps win with claws.

    my barb always use genie or i am always thinking when to use it.

    apot no cos you wont have that many and they cost more then a little coin compared to p stones.

    ppl mentality have changed so ppl have to use new things to.

    ppl do not play fair so why should you.

    on my barb i always let sin killthemself on demon roar untill they rage and tell me to not cheat and i tell them to stop apsing my barb and use ur skills.

    and they try that and run out of mana and start to aps this alone show ppl go for what win and is easy becouse a sin should kill a barb in seconds right.
  • ILubby - Raging Tide
    ILubby - Raging Tide Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    I always use genies and apoth in duels o3o, no rules in RTb:pleased
    As for sins...they usually stealth and begin attacking using a stun skill, I AD, sleep and paralyze them (only if they dont have that anti stun sleep paralyze buff) plume shell, couple IH, vacuity pot and DD the **** out of the sin.
    Works if you are dueling a dumb sin, the majority is, so good luck lol
  • Ahira - Lost City
    Ahira - Lost City Posts: 791 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Nothing wrong with using genie in duel these days- they're such an integral part of pvp anyway. Think the no-genie rule originated from back when we all used to add chi stones to genies 10 at a time! :D
    --Retired--

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  • Frostwish - Raging Tide
    Frostwish - Raging Tide Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Plume shell, IH before duel starts, sleep, tempest, 1 shot. :o No Genie required.
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Frostwish - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Plume shell, IH before duel starts, sleep, tempest, 1 shot. :o No Genie required.

    Assuming the sin does not stealth, has no anti-stun up, and does not stun you; sure, that would work just fine.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Frostwish - Raging Tide
    Frostwish - Raging Tide Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Assuming the sin does not stealth, has no anti-stun up, and does not stun you; sure, that would work just fine.

    Okay, if sin anti-stuns/does not stealth, then spark and Wield Thunder + Cyclone if needed. If you time it right, you won't get stunned. If sin does stealth, I would recommend dueling next to another target which you can Tempest on, in which the AoE would kill the sin as well. Or a combo of all of those depending on situation. :o
  • AriesBreath - Raging Tide
    AriesBreath - Raging Tide Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Don't forget Deaden Nerves, Focused Mind and/or Tidal Protection.

    And their array of control skills.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    um, the question is. "how do i survive the first strike". that'll be ur main concern.

    here's a solution, lvl a sin up to 100+ and max out its detection lvl. have him/her stand near u and have them keep an eye out for those little stealthed fishies. once u spot one, tele stun the little buggard and sleep them on ur cleric. use ur sin as support for stunning and have ur cleric for dding.
    Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AriesBreath - Raging Tide
    AriesBreath - Raging Tide Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    um, the question is. "how do i survive the first strike". that'll be ur main concern.

    here's a solution, lvl a sin up to 100+ and max out its detection lvl. have him/her stand near u and have them keep an eye out for those little stealthed fishies. once u spot one, tele stun the little buggard and sleep them on ur cleric. use ur sin as support for stunning and have ur cleric for dding.

    For what exactly? If you had a 103+ sin who can pop them out of stealth, you'd most likely be 5aps, which then just makes PK easy mode for you. Do what they do, stealth, double spark, windshield aps. Or stealth, headhunt, demon spark, occult aps.

    Sin damage > Cleric damage any day mate.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I have a 105 sin (obviously) and I also have a sage lvl 101 cleric, and a demon heavy armor 101 cleric. So I know assassins, and I know clerics, and I know how to win against either class while playing either class. The one thing I haven't been able to do is play my characters against each other... (lol)

    To win on cleric in duel, you must use genie. No choice in the matter. Lets assume the sin starts from stealth. My basic strategy is to plume shell and keep moving, while using mana pots liberally. When plume shell is nearly over, I do a double jump into air and fly with max speed. If the sin tries a teleport stun, he'll land a few meters behind you, which buys you a few seconds before you need to hit that ad or expel. Just don't let the sin use tackling slash before you use your genie, or you'll be in trouble. When plume shell is back on cooldown, I use it and then go back to the ground and keep moving. Unless you have 10k+ hp, trying to stand in one spot and outheal the dps you know is coming is not a good plan.

    That being said...

    A lot of the fight is a mind game. Sometimes on my cleric, I'll stop moving and do a few heals, a sage vanguard... then let the heals stop for maybe 3 seconds. Then I'll use fortify on genie, and lo and behold, watch as the sin tries a stun which promptly fails. I double jump fly then let the sin have what-for.

    Sometimes I'll wander around in a seemingly random pattern, waiting for the sin to strike, and lo and behold, my wandering takes me near some mobs, which I then aoe off of. Surprisingly often, I pull the sin out of stealth, often with no tidal protection in. Sleep and let him have what-for.

    Sometimes if the sin figures out my plume shell/fly-into-air pattern, I'll switch things up a bit, by dropping down from air without plume shell in... counting to... 2? 3? Then using the 79 skill to reduce dmg 60% for 10 seconds, along with healing myself. Lo and behold, the sin strikes, but I survive it, then I get to plume shell after the initial attack.

    Sometimes if the sin has low dmg and I'm fully buffed, I will stay in one spot, and (recently +10ed my lunar stuffs) I'll fire off sage magic shell (20% faster channeling) then do sage vanguard and about 4-5 ironhearts, before repeating. I survive the initial attack, then plume shell (hit a mana pot so your mana doesn't run out right away) then kite with sleep. Build up chi again, and let er' rip.

    The biggest reason why clerics can't DUEL effectively against sins is because mana charm does not work in duels. In pk, its an entirely different story. I recently fought for 10 minutes against a well-geared, +10 sin in pk, who was using an anti-cleric genie (whatever the anti-metal genie skill is called), and he could not kill me, through no fault of his own. Sage plume shell is 85% dmg reduction, and its not so easy to drop when I'm spamming mana pots all the time and my mana charm is ticking every 5 seconds. (Unfortunately the fight finished about 3 minutes after he got a purge on his bow; sin got about 6 crits in a row without power dash, bad luck qq! Also the fact that I haven't bothered +10 my weapon, due to the fact that I'm aiming for r8 reforge and lotsa defense levels.)

    In duels, I've not been able to win yet effectively against +12 sins, but I can hold off the majority of +10 sins effectively. My experience as an assassin definitely useful to me here, I think.

    As I've said before, clerics come into their own once they get both 100 skills. The seal of the gods I use when: enemy uses stun resist on me, or when enemy triple sparks. Trading 1 spark of mine for 3 sparks of theirs is a hell of a good deal. Also buys me 15 seconds to more than recover that 1 spark (magic shell > master li's technique [50 chi if its ready to use] > stream of rejuv [sage stream of rejuv is 20 chi per heal] > chromatic seal (sleep) after 13 seconds or so). The other 100 skill is a super-fast casting/channeling single-target metal skill (0.5 channel, 0.5 cast). Greatly increases metal dps, particularly on light or heavy armor characters, since it allows you to cycle constantly between wield thunder, great cyclone, and the 100 skill.

    Cheerio.

    Azzazin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Mitachi - Dreamweaver
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not quite sure about "ok gears" since your p.def is definatly low .
    Cleric doesn't win duel vs a sin . No matter what your gears are (unless you use genie, but really genie in duel ? -.-) As for pvp, i doubt you can take a few hit from any sin .

    I won a duel against a fishy before it was a 5min battle though and i won by the string of my ***. Just need to use a strategy.
    lalalala Pokemon
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  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I won a duel against a fishy before it was a 5min battle though and i won by the string of my ***. Just need to use a strategy.

    Actually won one but like i said i don't use genie in duel ( probably particularity of Sanctuary server) . So yes strategy and lots of luck too but as long as they can't kill me in TW, i'm all good if i don't win duel :D
  • Prophete - Dreamweaver
    Prophete - Dreamweaver Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    What Azzazin says: use genie or die.
  • Kanmi - Sanctuary
    Kanmi - Sanctuary Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What Azzazin says: use genie or die.

    You don't die in duel b:pleased
  • Styx_Phoenix - Sanctuary
    Styx_Phoenix - Sanctuary Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The first reaction I had to this post was:
    Why is his weapon +7, gears +3?!
    :/ Idk but I reckon one should always have higher refine in gears than weapon or at least very similar level.
    2ndly, I think his mag atk is too low to one shot a sin.

    But putting all those aside, it is definitely possible to defeat sins in duels provided that:
    1. the sin doesnt stealth
    2. you can use genies

    Depends on who you are dueling, you can tell when they have the antistun skill on (watch their buffs).
    As long as they got the antistun on, kite them, holy path away from them until the antistun is off.
    Or you can AD. whatever that keeps you alive during the period they got antistun.
  • ifoxygirl20
    ifoxygirl20 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I second that ^-^

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