Sage or Demon Seeker?

HildieGarde - Heavens Tear · December 2011

So I'm lvl 89 and have my Culti done. Now I have to decide Sage or Demon. Knightblayde's guide doesn't have much detail.

I'm leaning Sage (based on his description) since I like using skills and have more of a Tankish playstyle.

Can anyone recommend pros and cons for the next 10 levels? I say next 10 levels because if I chose wrong I know I could switch at 100(?) albeit at great cost.

Which is more useful in squads?
Which is more useful solo?

What Sage/Demon skills are the most important to get first?

cevil1 · December 2011

I am a 92 seeker already (started 2 weeks ago), and I can say this: I chose sage after having played mostly every single class in PW and having always gone DEMON WAY for more PvP power. But demon seeker is just not worth it, I mean check all the spells, there are only a few dark ones that are good, and they do not contribute alot in PvP (for example vortex that stuns. If your enemies allow you to run into a group and vortex, then they are truly fail enemies). Sage seeker is the way to go, because you will not use APS (cannot use fists + swords are slow), therefore sage burst (spark) is better for reduction (demon doesnt increase CASTING, only APS), sage skills are better for survivability+damage.

easy choice here.

VitalityX - Lost City · December 2011

The majority of people will tell you Sage Seeker is the way to go. Honestly, either way is fine, it depends on your playstyle.

I chose Demon for these skills:

Battousai, a skill I spam alot, gains extra chi. (Seekers gain VERY LITTLE spammable chi...)
Soulsever adds extra reduced defense levels when connected..sage version of that only increases the chance, it already procs like mad.
Demon Adrenal Numbness adds 10% accuracy... but thats only especially useful in my PvP against Archers & Sins.
Demon Blade & Sword Mastery will give an extra crit %, which stacks onto my already high crit (18%) from gear and DEX.
Did I also mention Blade Affinity's cooldown reduction? = more fun using Gemini Slash.

I have more dex than a normal Seeker, so Demon stuff benefits me further, and if you decide to go demon I think those skills are the best. I hope you make the right choice.

SunRush - Raging Tide · December 2011

Honestly, I went sage and I love it like crazy. Sage Unfetter is by far my favourite skill right now (anti-stun b:dirty).
Demon seems good for extra chi, but I mean, Cloud Eruption + Master Li's means it's rare to see a demon seeker, ime. And demon spark is pointless because we're a skillspam class, not an aps one.

Like others have said, and more will reiterate, it's all down to your play style. Read through the descriptions of each skill and decide which would benefit you more, personally. Same goes for which skills to go for first, pick the ones you use the most and sage/demon them before the ones you use less.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur · December 2011

I went sage- simply because I play for TWs-- And once you complete to celestial sage, and get 100 skills, you double your ability of mobile locking, and or Antistunning- You will have more direct damage, and more range to do it in-

VitalityX - Lost City · December 2011

I understand Sage T-Spark is more beneficial to the Seeker class, I would have preferred it obviously, but for me the benefits of every other skill outweigh the slight con of demon sparking.

_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver · December 2011

Sage all the way.

Sage stances for higher proc rates
Sage mastery for extra damage
Sage adrenal for higher defense
Sage darkcloud for channeling interupt
Sage unfetter for stun/slow immune
Sage blade affinity for 50% evade debuffs
Sage gemini for higher damage
Sage heartseeker for higher proc chance
Sage voidstep for longer stun
Sage QPQ for longer silence and faster recast

There's the list that made me choose sage. The things that would make me consider demon are the debuffs (Heart shatter, mind shatter etc.) which seem better and Vortex for its stun, though the duration is only 1s so it seems hardly worth it.

And whoever mentioned the crit percentage from demon mastery, 1% isn't enough to make it better than an extra 15% damage. At 100 I have 25% crit buffed, 26% isn't going to make much of a difference there.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · December 2011

Sage Seeker skills can be summed up as simply having very little drawbacks with a lot of benefits. It is almost as if Seeker was specifically tailored for sage.

Except Sage Vortex is lame(just added range, whereas demon vortex stuns).

To better help you with your decision, go here: http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php

and compare sage and demon skills.

But if you're going sage, don't get sage heartseeker. Apparently the proc rate is bugged. Unless someone can verify. I know there was a topic about it long time ago.

_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver · December 2011

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary wrote: »

But if you're going sage, don't get sage heartseeker. Apparently the proc rate is bugged.

The proc rate isn't bugged as far as I understand it. If you are using a stance then when you use Heartseeker only one of the stance and the immobilize debuff can be transfered to the target, and more often than not that ends up being the stance.

Nniotora - Lost City · December 2011

_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The proc rate isn't bugged as far as I understand it. If you are using a stance then when you use Heartseeker only one of the stance and the immobilize debuff can be transfered to the target, and more often than not that ends up being the stance.

^ this is why i never pk with a stance on and my sage heartseeker has 90% chance tho with my luck its 100% cuz i only fail it on sins with tidal

XXZeonXx - Harshlands · December 2011

Because only one of the two debuffs can be proc'd at the same time, the proc rate for heartseeker is dependent on which stance you're using. The higher the chance of the stance you're using to proc is, the lower the chance of heartseeker immobilizing will be. This is the main reason why I never used Soulsever in PvP. (Now I don't have a choice, because I have sage gemini and no sage soulsever.) Regardless, if you do want to maximize your potential, the best thing to do would be to use Soulsever only to debuff (I'd suggest using this mainly on those long fights with BMs/Barbs), then switch to Parchedblade or Duelists's Glee (if you have it; I love how the low proc rate barely lowers my heartseeker's proc rate) so that your heartseeker can still be successful. Before I got Duelist's, however, I did PvP with no stance on, and people would always ask me why. I'd never tell them. xD

In regards to the topic, I went sage Seeker instead of demon Seeker. Primarily because I knew that at endgame all I'd be doing is PvP all day, and that is what I spend 95% of my time on PWI doing. Sage blade and sword mastery is SO much better than demon, sage gemini has an extreme difference in damage, sage unfetter's anti-stun is incomparably useful, a six second tidal protection from blade affinity can save you from a lot of things, vortex range add helps immensely with PvE and hitting magic mobs who stop a bit far out to cast, sage heart shatter makes a large difference in your damage output in PvE, sage heartseeker is very reliable as long as you're not PvPing with Soulsever on (lol), and sage QPQ's silence is more helpful.

To be honest, I always ask the demon Seekers I see why they went demon instead of sage, because I really don't see that many benefits at all.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur · December 2011

As quick as the stances can change, I just change to a lower procing one, HS switch back- in PvP spirit bore is just to hard to pass up b:victory

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2011

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary wrote: »

But if you're going sage, don't get sage heartseeker. Apparently the proc rate is bugged. Unless someone can verify. I know there was a topic about it long time ago.

For your heartseekerish needs and equations about heartseeker

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1157831&highlight=heartseeker

HildieGarde - Heavens Tear · December 2011

Thanks for all the great feedback. I decided to go Sage. b:victory

About the only thing I personally will really miss not going Demon is the Vortex stun, almost everything else I find is better Sage for my playstyle.

SoulkillerX - Raging Tide · December 2011

hmm my opinoin i see demons better not saying sage isnt gd its great but if i come and think about it vortex stun edge blur more time the buffs are better u get chi like mad if u went demon from rock splitting cleave gemini slash sage 1500 more damage naa not much cauce its nerfed in pvp and u wont take people with it in one shot unless there gear suck or its crit demon i prefer the slow specaily in TW i can slow a group of people when i hit it and have more time to doo it again and kill them heart seeker prefer more distance and yes went i meant buffs are better didnt mean all buffs ofcourse and some other i prefer demon more than sage but again not going demon cause of aps or anything its just because of skills but either sage or demon they works gd it depend on your playstyle and wht u plan and about the anitstun in sage naa i can let me genie doo it for me soo im gd anyway thts my opinoin have fun everyoneb:victoryb:bye

laloner · December 2011

Reading the descriptions sage vs demon all comes out even until you get to sword mastery and then sage wins. But overall its pretty close. But maybe a pvp analysis would be different. The shorter cooldown on blade affinity seems more important to pvp than extra sword damage on normal attacks. Without blade affinity its a long wait for gemini to finish that extravagant animation.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary · December 2011

I choose sage for my seeker for many reasons that were already said - more beneficial effects and attack damage from skills. The only thing I envy demon seekers is that small percentage chance to stun opponents with vortex. The chance to do so is 15%, a bit more than the silence and freeze effect from the weapon proc Darken. So, it is not necessary an over whelming advantage over sage vortex.

Sage vortex gets 2 meters added to their "cast" distance (the distance from the enemy in which seekers can begin casting the spell ). Many people do not know this, but 2 meters cast range =/= to attack range (as seen with demon sin's Earthen Rift). I still see seekers saying "oh - my sage vortex has more range of damage now," which is wrong.

Deadlife - Lost City · December 2011

I went sage for several reasons, but after I went sage I dont think its as good as its made out to be over demon.

Mastery, yea thats about in my opinion the only thing that sage has that trumps demon, 15% extra damage vs crit % add-on, but then again thats not even probably hardly a trump, maybe more like a slightly better edge. considering I crit alot as it were.

But everything else that I thought would benefit me more as sage really hasnt at least in the way I thought it would.

For instance:

Unfetter's addition of a 4(lol) second anti-stun has not really been even helpful in the least if at all. (this was one of the main reasons I went sage, after spending months pvping pre-89 and sick and tired of getting perma-stunned/slept/immob)

Quid pro quo I thought would have been great, i thought I would use it ALOT versus sins(and have), however again pointless when you compare the cooldown of tackling slash versus the cooldown of QpQ.

I wont really go into the rest as far as details, but I too went sage cause of the "popularity" and so far all thats granted me was greater access to skill books, not so much of a benefit in real functionality.

I will say however I dont regret going sage, there are some nice benefits, master Lis technique, the damage reduction from triple spark. the added decrease in resistances on debuffs like heartshatter and ion spike, but, if I knew then what I know now I would probably not have gone sage to be honest.

Ray - Momaganon · December 2011

HildieGarde - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thanks for all the great feedback. I decided to go Sage. b:victory

About the only thing I personally will really miss not going Demon is the Vortex stun, almost everything else I find is better Sage for my playstyle.

I have two seekers in two different severs, one demon one sage

I can tell you sage is thousand times better than a demon seeker...

I went demon cause of the stun on demon vortex is bull****, it almost never happens cause of the low % and when it does is waaaaaaaaay too short to notice (1 sec) so you won't miss it, believe me... sage vortex all the way

Unfetter, blade affinity and heartseeker are the nice things that demon has together with soulsever, but the rest are seriously not worth it and sage versions are way better

terminator00 · December 2011

Sage haha

1st reason able at 89 make full pulls on fc with sage spark
2nd reason gemini 2k more dmg
3rd reason i like sage more

skymasters · January 2012

I a blademaster...I got a question....If i want to use the weapon sword....which is best for me Sage or Demon....Please help Thank You..

b:pleased

TolanSky - Heavens Tear · January 2012

skymasters wrote: »

I a blademaster...I got a question....If i want to use the weapon sword....which is best for me Sage or Demon....Please help Thank You..

b:pleased

You um... do realize that a Sword Blademaster is not the same thing as a Seeker, and that asking which is better for a Sword Blademaster is not a wise thing to do on a thread devoted to asking which is better for Seeker in a forum dedicated to the Seeker class?

Sage or Demon Seeker?

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