How does reducing physical damage by X% work?
laloner
Posts: 0 Arc User
I recently switched from mold armor to TT90gold and disappointed to find out that physical mobs are hitting me for more damage now. I knew my pdef numbers would go down but I thought all the stats on the new armor reducing physical damage by a certain percent would make up for it. I think all together the new armor has +5% physical damage reduction. What exactly does this do?
Also I have 10 sockets on the new set and wonder if I should shard for phys defense now. I'm a slow leveler and will use this armor for a while, I don't mind having to refine it a bit for HP.
Also I have 10 sockets on the new set and wonder if I should shard for phys defense now. I'm a slow leveler and will use this armor for a while, I don't mind having to refine it a bit for HP.
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I recently switched from mold armor to TT90gold and disappointed to find out that physical mobs are hitting me for more damage now. I knew my pdef numbers would go down but I thought all the stats on the new armor reducing physical damage by a certain percent would make up for it. I think all together the new armor has +5% physical damage reduction. What exactly does this do?
Also I have 10 sockets on the new set and wonder if I should shard for phys defense now. I'm a slow leveler and will use this armor for a while, I don't mind having to refine it a bit for HP.
Personally, I don't switch until I'm able to shard the armor properly, and refine it at least a little. I usually try for around +3. Its not much, but its better than nothing. Also, I don't know what class you are, but I can say that as a cleric, I personally go for a mix of citrine and garnet shards. Other classes vary though."Male Player using female toon. Please don't flirt with me."
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Reduce physical dmg by X% is massively overrated.
That add-on is only effective when you are a HA class with heaps of phys defense. Since phys defense has diminishing returns, it takes more +Phys Resist to reduce phys damage by 1% when you are HA. If you have a massive amount of phys resist already, it will take even more phys resist to increase your defense.
If you are an AA class, Reduce phys dmg by 1% doesn't mean that much, since it takes very little +Phys resist to increase your resistances.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »Reduce physical dmg by X% is massively overrated.
That add-on is only effective when you are a HA class with heaps of phys defense. Since phys defense has diminishing returns, it takes more +Phys Resist to reduce phys damage by 1% when you are HA. If you have a massive amount of phys resist already, it will take even more phys resist to increase your defense.
If you are an AA class, Reduce phys dmg by 1% doesn't mean that much, since it takes very little +Phys resist to increase your resistances.
Except that's not the way it works.
Reduce Phys Damage % adds are not added to the damage reduction % provide by Phys Resistance, they are factored in a separate step. Whatever damage is let through by standard resistance is then reduced by this %. Arcanes will typically get more damage points reduced, since their armor lets more damage through.0 -
Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »Except that's not the way it works.
Reduce Phys Damage % adds are not added to the damage reduction % provide by Phys Resistance, they are factored in a separate step. Whatever damage is let through by standard resistance is then reduced by this %. Arcanes will typically get more damage points reduced, since their armor lets more damage through.
This.
I have over 10% on my cleric (didn't really aim for it, though) and I can't really say it's that useful.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
11% more survival against phys attacks isn't useful?Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »This.
I have over 10% on my cleric (didn't really aim for it, though) and I can't really say it's that useful.
Thats more than twice as good as that max hp+5% stat you can get from a cube neck (only for physical).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »11% more survival against phys attacks isn't useful?
Thats more than twice as good as that max hp+5% stat you can get from a cube neck (only for physical).
It's nice to have yes, but I can't say I've ever been in a situation where ~10% reduced physical damage has saved me. That's just from a carebear cleric, though b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
It's not really that useful, tbh.
Let's take Garuda's Flame Wing vs Broken Dream as an example. Wing has 2% Physical Reduction, Dream has 14-15 Vit.
Lets say a R8 Archer shoots the Arcane and hits 2.5k. The damage from that physical attack is reduced to 2.45 if you have Wing on, but if you have Dream on you get a flat 150 more hp. You saved yourself 50 damage in exchange for 150 hp that works for both Physical and Magical damage spells. You would have to be hit for 7.5k realistically for the % damage reduced to even catch up to the HP and if you're getting hit for that much, you're probably already in trouble.
This sort of choice persists almost everywhere % Damage Reduced is offered in the Arcane Armor repertoire. Basically the choice will be "the -chan item or the defensible item". Warsoul vs Ence's Scar. TT99 Sleeves vs Sleeves of Demon Sword. TT99 Top vs Cape of Underworld Soverign. Some of the most defensible gear is in fact the cheapest, but people don't get it in favor of the more popular item.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »It's not really that useful, tbh.
Let's take Garuda's Flame Wing vs Broken Dream as an example. Wing has 2% Physical Reduction, Dream has 14-15 Vit.
Lets say a R8 Archer shoots the Arcane and hits 2.5k. The damage from that physical attack is reduced to 2.45 if you have Wing on, but if you have Dream on you get a flat 150 more hp. You saved yourself 50 damage in exchange for 150 hp that works for both Physical and Magical damage spells. You would have to be hit for 7.5k realistically for the % damage reduced to even catch up to the HP and if you're getting hit for that much, you're probably already in trouble.
This sort of choice persists almost everywhere % Damage Reduced is offered in the Arcane Armor repertoire. Basically the choice will be "the -chan item or the defensible item". Warsoul vs Ence's Scar. TT99 Sleeves vs Sleeves of Demon Sword. TT99 Top vs Cape of Underworld Soverign. Some of the most defensible gear is in fact the cheapest, but people don't get it in favor of the more popular item.
When was the last time an archer fired 1 arrow at you?
If you have 10k HP, 4-5 shots would be needed at minimum to drop you. At 50 damage saved on every hit, the Dam Red % will quickly overtake the flat +150 HP.0 -
Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »When was the last time an archer fired 1 arrow at you?
If you have 10k HP, 4-5 shots would be needed at minimum to drop you. At 50 damage saved on every hit, the Dam Red % will quickly overtake the flat +150 HP.
If you already have 10k HP as an arcane, which is damn high you're talking +10s on multiple pieces of gear, then 150hp would not be as much of a concern to you. b:surrender
Even then you're talking about 3 un-pdef charmed hits at 2.5k for the % to = the hp UNBUFFED. 4 to catch up to the HP buffed. If you were not already going to stand there and tank this archer without pdef charms or domaining for 4 hits of W/E skill they're using (Demon QS proc? sure), then the HP benefits you more.
Most Arcanes, especially in our faction Val, have under 5k. If you're one shot-able to begin with, % damage reduction will not help you. Someone in our faction with under 5k HP recently got Garuda's because someone said it was better. This is the kind of discrepancy of choice I'm speaking to.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I would like to know about this too if someone can explain..
is the formula [Total Damage] - [Defense Number]; or
[Total Damage] - [% Damage Reduction * Total Damage] ?
or a mix of both? like a hidden formula like this:
{[Total Damage] - [Defense Number]} - ([% Damage Reduction * {[Total Damage] - [Defense Number]})
?0 -
The physical damage goes through all of your defenses before being reduced further. It's more like....
(Raw Physical Damage) x (50% if wearing PDef Charm) x (% Pdef reduction from Pdef) x (Defense Level Damage Reduction) => (That sum) - (% Dam Reduction x That Sum) = Damage Recieved
So for example:
5k raw damage x 50% if wearing pdef charm x (let's say 40% seems average pdef on Arcane) x 15 def level from Omally's Blessing = 1.275k - .0255 = 1.2495k Damage recieved.
Without Pdef Charm:
= 2.55k - 0.051 = 2.499k Damage recieved[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »If you already have 10k HP as an arcane, which is damn high you're talking +10s on multiple pieces of gear, then 150hp would not be as much of a concern to you. b:surrender
Even then you're talking about 3 un-pdef charmed hits at 2.5k for the % to = the hp UNBUFFED. 4 to catch up to the HP buffed. If you were not already going to stand there and tank this archer without pdef charms or domaining for 4 hits of W/E skill they're using (Demon QS proc? sure), then the HP benefits you more.
Most Arcanes, especially in our faction Val, have under 5k. If you're one shot-able to begin with, % damage reduction will not help you. Someone in our faction with under 5k HP recently got Garuda's because someone said it was better. This is the kind of discrepancy of choice I'm speaking to.
b:surrender
Sry, that 10k figure may have been on the high end, was thinking about it from an end game point of view.
In your example, 7500 HP is the balance point where both are equally effective against physical damage. Less HP, will make the HP add more effective, more HP will make the Dam Red more effective.0 -
hmm so basicly its just number, the important thing is the xx% Damage Reduction?
Lets say, increasing PDef from 7500 to 7600 would means nothing it the xx% not increased?0 -
Red_pearl - Heavens Tear wrote: »hmm so basicly its just number, the important thing is the xx% Damage Reduction?
Lets say, increasing PDef from 7500 to 7600 would means nothing it the xx% not increased?
From the last I read it's the best when coupled with high defenses. It's the easiest way to get that last bit of damage reduced rather then needing even more exponential defense. This also holds true with JoSD.BladedZero - Sanctuary
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Red_pearl - Heavens Tear wrote: »hmm so basicly its just number, the important thing is the xx% Damage Reduction?
Lets say, increasing PDef from 7500 to 7600 would means nothing it the xx% not increased?
You're asking if the game rounds or not, basically? In other words increasing your pdef within a % will reduce damage taken or not. This is different from the % Damage Reduction we were talking about xD
I don't know.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »You're asking if the game rounds or not, basically? In other words increasing your pdef within a % will reduce damage taken or not. This is different from the % Damage Reduction we were talking about xD
I don't know.
AFAIK, damage reduction from Physical Defense is internally rounded to 2 decimal places while the display is truncated to only show the integer. So 63.92% reduction will show as 63%. As Kero said, this is not what we are discussing in this thread.0 -
Reduced physical damage taken by 1% or Def LVL 1 its same. If you receive a normal hit which takes 100 hp from you then the addon will make it 99 . Its not a big deal and dont expect to GM improvements ..b:laugh
1% its MICROSCOPIC b:chuckle facing the mob's hits from pwi b:chuckle
Its all about percent here:
1/100
10/1,000
100/10,000
1000/100,000
and so on ..
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CRYSTY_III - Sanctuary wrote: »Reduced physical damage taken by 1% or Def LVL 1 its same. If you receive a normal hit which takes 100 hp from you then the addon will make it 99 . Its not a big deal and dont expect to GM improvements ..b:laugh
1% its MICROSCOPIC b:chuckle facing the mob's hits from pwi b:chuckle
Its all about percent here:
1/100
10/1,000
100/10,000
1000/100,000
and so on ..
I don't so. I think it doesn't work that way.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm wondering if -% reduction stats scale or if it's a flat 1% less physical damage taken. If it's the latter, then it would explain why % reduction comes so rarely and in such small amounts. If someone could stack 100 of it, they'd be invincible to melee. Defense levels don't work the same way. 90 defense levels doesn't = 10% damage taken.
It's a nice stat, however, only because you basically know what you're getting. 1% less physical damage taken, whether you strip naked or you're buffed to the gills, and it can't be modified by your opponent's gear like defense levels can be.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Actually how it works is one HUGE mystery. There is lot of opinions how it really works, but I think nobody know exactly, because it's very hard to verify it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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b:surrender
Either way it only helps you if someone is hitting you with a Phys attack. It's not nearly as flexible as defense level.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »When was the last time an archer fired 1 arrow at you?
If you have 10k HP, 4-5 shots would be needed at minimum to drop you. At 50 damage saved on every hit, the Dam Red % will quickly overtake the flat +150 HP.
LMAO have you not heard of r9. Point proven.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Deago - Lost City wrote: »LMAO have you not heard of r9. Point proven.
He is a R9 Archer.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Deago - Lost City wrote: »LMAO have you not heard of r9. Point proven.
LMAO have you not got R9? level 100 point proven.0 -
Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually how it works is one HUGE mystery. There is lot of opinions how it really works, but I think nobody know exactly, because it's very hard to verify it.
Nope. It's been verified for a long time.
Character % pdef + ( 1 - character % pdef ) * items % pdef reduction = total reduction
For example, if on your character window you have 70% pdef reduction and you have an item with +3% pdef reduction you would have,
.70+(1 - 0.70)*0.03 = 70.9% total pdef reduction.0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »Nope. It's been verified for a long time.
Character % pdef + ( 1 - character % pdef ) * items % pdef reduction = total reduction
For example, if on your character window you have 70% pdef reduction and you have an item with +3% pdef reduction you would have,
.70+(1 - 0.70)*0.03 = 70.9% total pdef reduction.
This is, IIRC, calculated after the Atk/Def levels. So one does not negate the other.[sigpic][/sigpic]
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Fintan - Lost City wrote: »This is, IIRC, calculated after the Atk/Def levels. So one does not negate the other.
Defense reduction and attack/def levels are separate.
--
The thing about this stat is that once you get to the point where it starts to give great returns on pdef, increasing pdef is almost pointless. It's nice for people with massive pdef and want more for some reason. For numbers, a level 100 with 10k pdef gets about 450 pdef from +3%, 20k pdef gets about 750 pdef from +3%.
tl;dr The stat isn't something you should actively seek to increase, it's nice if the equipment has it but in most cases don't make sacrifices for it. If you have a choice between +x and +x% pdef then you need to do some math to see which one is better.0 -
Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »When was the last time an archer fired 1 arrow at you?
If you have 10k HP, 4-5 shots would be needed at minimum to drop you. At 50 damage saved on every hit, the Dam Red % will quickly overtake the flat +150 HP.
r9 archers are murder machines x/x but now that I look it was 3 shots soo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEmqNUNf_Ck&feature=youtu.be#t=1m18sSiggy from bellefleurs.
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Deago - Lost City wrote: »LMAO have you not heard of r9. Point proven.
My mystic has ~14k p. def with cleric buffs, 90 defense levels, and -10 % reduce physical damage stat. +12 R9 archers hit me for ~1k damage per shot non crit, and I have 10k hp unbuffed.
I STILL fear archers more than just about any other class, however. Even sins. Their ability to do high spike damage from just about anywhere on the battlefield while having the ability to purge at anytime is insane. I still get crit for almost 5k while purged.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »Nope. It's been verified for a long time.
Character % pdef + ( 1 - character % pdef ) * items % pdef reduction = total reduction
For example, if on your character window you have 70% pdef reduction and you have an item with +3% pdef reduction you would have,
.70+(1 - 0.70)*0.03 = 70.9% total pdef reduction.
Thanks. Hopefully you are right.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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