Pure Tiger Barb guide (PVE)
Comments
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My build lv 103 barb, 392 vit,315 str,64 dex 3 on magic but rember the reason my stats r high im wearing r 8 gear atm working on r 9 armor now putting in 4 vit+10's x12 in each part of armor .,
To build more hp u want to add as much hp or vit to your gear + refine it im not rich it taken me a few months to save lol but it's fun.
A true tank is built with str vit dex only for armor and wepons.
Most dd's are squisy and die quick with out a cleric cover there butts or they use a lot of charms.0 -
Im very sorry but i have read a bunch of things, we do not stay in tiger all the time, to be great at your class you have to know how to use it, and for one using both forms to an advantage really helps being a great barb. Now you only explained demon well i found that you said " the most pure barbs go demon" that is false there are tons of barb who go sage and rock it better then a demon barb. Now i am not bashing demon as i am one and i am very good at what i do. And i dont know if you know but lvl 11 ream helps with keepin aggro off a r9 +4 aps demon archer i should know i dou frosts with him. But i am only here to state that to know your class you have to be able to know both sides.
Thank you
99 demon barb[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
Ezio Auditore0 -
Deago - Lost City wrote: »Im very sorry but i have read a bunch of things, we do not stay in tiger all the time, to be great at your class you have to know how to use it, and for one using both forms to an advantage really helps being a great barb. Now you only explained demon well i found that you said " the most pure barbs go demon" that is false there are tons of barb who go sage and rock it better then a demon barb. Now i am not bashing demon as i am one and i am very good at what i do. And i dont know if you know but lvl 11 ream helps with keepin aggro off a r9 +4 aps demon archer i should know i dou frosts with him. But i am only here to state that to know your class you have to be able to know both sides.
Thank you
99 demon barb
Well i kept agrro from a 4.0 aps archer with normal FR and Cala refined +3 in my 90's is not that hard to keep agrro from them but 5 aps refined +10 archers, BM especialy sins are a different story.
Now i duo FC with a R9 sin friend of mine to lvl our alts and now i use my barb only for buffs and cleaning the pathway to heads and big room.b:cry0 -
Hello Im A 52 Barb And I Was Wondering What Would Be A Reasonable Tome? Plz Help Me!0
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Urdeadnnow - Lost City wrote: »Hello Im A 52 Barb And I Was Wondering What Would Be A Reasonable Tome? Plz Help Me!
Any tome that gives +VIT or +STR or any combination of those would be a good start. +DEX can also be a good choice for advanced builds.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower
-Self-Proclaimed TW commentator of HT-
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-Master of Coffee-0 -
I would suggest Underestimated Resolve as a starter tome. It gives 4 strength and 3 vit. I suggest multiple stat tomes over single stat tomes (like +5 vitality) beecause you get more stats. If you want 5 vitality get a 4str/3vit tome and two stat points you were going to put into str just add to vitality instead.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0
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Is this a good tank barb str1,vit3 and dex 1 or where should i plce the points on to be a tank barb plse hlp im new with this thank u very much?0
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I have found this tool that adds unlimited ZEN for Perfect World! **************************0
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Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »Endgame
Myself and most pure tiger barbs choose to go demon, becuase it will give us what we have been lacking for the past 89 lvls.. DD power. well if you choose demon. congrats. you choose the one i can help you with.
I'm sorry to say but this is dead wrong!
Most tiger form builds are pure tank builds, which go Sage. A tank build SHOULD go Sage for the added HP and defense.
I've also noticed Sage ream has a hidden higher agro than demon ream. I tested my theory with a demon barb friend of exact same lvl (my barb lvl92 w/sage ream; his lvl92 with demon ream). My barb held agro about 80% on 9tail in Eden.
So yea...I disagree with going demon on this build 100%.
Leave Demon for the claw builds. lollvl101 Legit archer...not 1 hyper used or multi-FC0 -
Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'm sorry to say but this is dead wrong!
Most tiger form builds are pure tank builds, which go Sage. A tank build SHOULD go Sage for the added HP and defense.
...
So yea...I disagree with going demon on this build 100%.
Leave Demon for the claw builds. lol
And... I disagree. While the HP increase is nice, the defense increase isn't all that noticeable because it is gear based. If both go for M. Def ornaments the difference is only 1~2%.
If you are talking about having the highest survivability, with equivalent gear, the Sage tiger wins. The Demon tiger would still have very high survivability, though, while also seeing a nice damage increase. So by no means should a Vit build tiger barb only consider the Sage route unless they only care about survival index. A Demon tiger is much more balanced between survivability and damage output, and Demon stands out as a nice option since you can stay in tiger all the time with higher HP/Defense and not see your damage drop.
Also a Sage barb could go claw. However, the Demon barb would be able to have lower base APS and still reach 5 aps sparked, meaning they could upgrade certain gear to increase defenses. On the other hand, most claw build barbs have 'tank' gear and 'aps' gear, so it's sort of a non-issue... Sage barb has the benefit of Sage spark (unless a BBing cleric is present), Sage Titans, Sage PA (almost as good as Devour), and Sage True Form as it, of course, gives back more HP in tiger; Demon barb has the benefit of being able to use higher grade gear while being 5 aps sparked (or looking at it the other way, requiring less aps gear to begin with to achieve 5 aps sparked), Demon Devour (the 5 second duration increase makes it easier to maintain on the boss while also standing up to aps), Demon P Fang, and Demon Bestial Onslaught.
The last thing you said is intriguing. You mentioned both barbs are the same level, but there are a lot of other variables involved... the Sage barb could have had other things favoring it in terms of damage that helped to keep aggro on top of the aggro generated from FR, such as having Sage Axe and Hammer and a blessing, with the Demon barb only having level 10 Axe and Hammer and no blessing, etc.
Anyway, sorry this is so long and involved... It's a pet peeve of mine when it seems like people think demon barb can only be claw barb and sage barb must be vit barb, when it's not always the case, nor should it be. It really depends on what you want from your barb and the level 11 skills that will help you achieve your goals. Or maybe whichever path has the fairy you prefer. xD0 -
Blaxton - Raging Tide wrote: »And... I disagree. While the HP increase is nice, the defense increase isn't all that noticeable because it is gear based. If both go for M. Def ornaments the difference is only 1~2%.
If you are talking about having the highest survivability, with equivalent gear, the Sage tiger wins. The Demon tiger would still have very high survivability, though, while also seeing a nice damage increase. So by no means should a Vit build tiger barb only consider the Sage route unless they only care about survival index. A Demon tiger is much more balanced between survivability and damage output, and Demon stands out as a nice option since you can stay in tiger all the time with higher HP/Defense and not see your damage drop.
Also a Sage barb could go claw. However, the Demon barb would be able to have lower base APS and still reach 5 aps sparked, meaning they could upgrade certain gear to increase defenses. On the other hand, most claw build barbs have 'tank' gear and 'aps' gear, so it's sort of a non-issue... Sage barb has the benefit of Sage spark (unless a BBing cleric is present), Sage Titans, Sage PA (almost as good as Devour), and Sage True Form as it, of course, gives back more HP in tiger; Demon barb has the benefit of being able to use higher grade gear while being 5 aps sparked (or looking at it the other way, requiring less aps gear to begin with to achieve 5 aps sparked), Demon Devour (the 5 second duration increase makes it easier to maintain on the boss while also standing up to aps), Demon P Fang, and Demon Bestial Onslaught.
The last thing you said is intriguing. You mentioned both barbs are the same level, but there are a lot of other variables involved... the Sage barb could have had other things favoring it in terms of damage that helped to keep aggro on top of the aggro generated from FR, such as having Sage Axe and Hammer and a blessing, with the Demon barb only having level 10 Axe and Hammer and no blessing, etc.
Anyway, sorry this is so long and involved... It's a pet peeve of mine when it seems like people think demon barb can only be claw barb and sage barb must be vit barb, when it's not always the case, nor should it be. It really depends on what you want from your barb and the level 11 skills that will help you achieve your goals. Or maybe whichever path has the fairy you prefer. xD
Sorry, but this thread is about a tiger form build. There are far too many benefits from going sage vs demon. Sage True Form has a HUGE increase in HP...Sage Beasial Rage is far more awesome in FC/Delta due to the time extension (full chi pretty much always?)...Sage Shapeshifting Intensity has a HUGE increase in defense, so no it's not only gear based...Sage BKI is far better. So add all those up and you have a HUGE difference in defense AND HP.
It does depend on your own preference, but we're talking about a TIGER form (tank build) here. Demon would most likely be more human form in build style.
Also on the ream test we did, let me clarify:
we both had the exact same gear with no refines
I had sage True Form and A/H Mastery...he had Demon versions of both
we both had the same str (I had 4 str less so used a tome to even it out)
we both had O'Malley's
I believe we covered all variables for the test
I hope this clarifies WHY I stated Sage is the best option for this type of build.0 -
Sorry, but this thread is about a tiger form build. There are far too many benefits from going sage vs demon. So add all those up and you have a HUGE difference in defense AND HP.
Assume for the moment I re-stat to pure Vit.
Demon: http://pwcalc.com/93f7fce2c271c559
Sage: http://pwcalc.com/557ea88128f1be24
Difference in HP is 1401.
Difference in P Def is 2636 which is about 2% in terms of damage reduction.Sage Shapeshifting Intensity has a HUGE increase in defense, so no it's not only gear based...
The skill description, states that it gives a % increase based on equipment, which means it only adds a percentage of your base physical resistance (sum of all Phys Res. stats on gear), not the physical defense number shown in the character sheet. That number also factors in Str and Vit which Shapeshifting Intensity (along with other Pdef buffs, like Vanguard) ignores. So if both barbs go for increasingly higher P Def gear (P Def ornaments, using high refined might rings), the Sage barb can really start scaling their P Def higher than a demon. A lot of barbs find using M def related gear to be more useful in general, though, and even when calculating Physical Damage Reduction with like.. +12 Sky Covers and g16 Cube and Warsong Ornaments, Sage is still only 1~2% higher.Sage Beasial Rage is far more awesome in FC/Delta due to the time extension (full chi pretty much always?)...
My demon barb also has full chi pretty much always in Delta. The extra duration for Sage is nice, however, especially if mobs are stunned for a while. In FC, demon bestial rage has always been good enough for Invoke>Sunder>Arma, and Demon Sunder + Demon Arma pretty much destroys everything...Sage True Form has a HUGE increase in HP...
It's only 10% extra for Sage True Form. This can begin to scale higher, just like Shapeshift and P Def, but would require an increasingly large base HP pool. If both barbs had a base HP of 20k, the difference between a demon and sage tiger would be 2k HP, but having 20k standing is a lot already. xDSage BKI is far better.
Both Sage and Demon BKI give a 35% HP increase.
Sage BKI is only better if you have alts or friends that you want to buff and not worry about for an hour. Demon BKI gives 35 chi to the barb and 20 chi to squad members, meaning if I don't have enough chi to Invoke/Triple spark/whatever and I don't want to or can't use apoth or Cloud Eruption, I just stand up and use BKI. I can give myself 70 chi in 6 seconds or 399 chi starting from 0 in about 36 seconds, compared to a Sage barb which can do 50 chi with Master Li's Technique instantly, but only every 60 seconds. The benefit is that Sage barb can use that skill in combat, but Demon BKI is basically a chi fountain for barb and squad.It does depend on your own preference, but we're talking about a TIGER form (tank build) here. Demon would most likely be more human form in build style.
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I hope this clarifies WHY I stated Sage is the best option for this type of build.
If you are looking at a survival index calculator and want to see the absolute highest numbers, go Sage. But like I said before, Demon is a great way to go for a tiger form tank build, because you retain high defense and HP (I don't think the demon tiger with 23.8k hp and 16k p def is any less of tank than the sage tiger) and increase your damage output to help hold aggro (bosses and pulls) and grind faster. That is what made it stand out as a good option and why the writer of this guide leaned towards Demon. Most barbs tank just fine with level 10 versions of skills and Demon still has a good advantage over level 10 and allows for the increased damage some people would like to see while being able to stay in tiger form all the time, never having to switch to increase damage output like a Sage barb would.Also on the ream test we did, let me clarify:
we both had the exact same gear with no refines
I had sage True Form and A/H Mastery...he had Demon versions of both
we both had the same str (I had 4 str less so used a tome to even it out)
we both had O'Malley's
I believe we covered all variables for the test
I tested this out with my 97 sage barb and 101 demon barb using only FR and auto attack on Qingzi. No gear or blessings on either of them, no Titans or PFang. Both have their respective level 11 Flesh Reams and same amount of Str. The only thing I noticed was that Qingzi turned to whichever barb Flesh Reamed most recently. If both used FR very close together, he wouldn't appear to switch barbs at all, but would begin channeling as if aggro did switch, and if they used FR at opposite timing from each other, he'd very clearly switch and, of course, begin channeling. I'd like to spend more time experimenting with this, like having one barb FR multiple times before the other one does, or using some combinations of Devour and FR to see how that affects things. xD0 -
Sorry, but this thread is about a tiger form build. There are far too many benefits from going sage vs demon. Sage True Form has a HUGE increase in HP...Sage Beasial Rage is far more awesome in FC/Delta due to the time extension (full chi pretty much always?)...Sage Shapeshifting Intensity has a HUGE increase in defense, so no it's not only gear based...Sage BKI is far better. So add all those up and you have a HUGE difference in defense AND HP.
It does depend on your own preference, but we're talking about a TIGER form (tank build) here. Demon would most likely be more human form in build style.
Also on the ream test we did, let me clarify:
we both had the exact same gear with no refines
I had sage True Form and A/H Mastery...he had Demon versions of both
we both had the same str (I had 4 str less so used a tome to even it out)
we both had O'Malley's
I believe we covered all variables for the test
I hope this clarifies WHY I stated Sage is the best option for this type of build.
I have never seen so many wrongs in just one paragraph: multiple exaggerations, misleading the reader, use of popular myths as facts, wrong contextualization, failure to mention (or avoiding to mention) one of most important key points in this debate, one big fat lie, lack diligence, and obviously, ignorance...
this make me wonder if u even have a active high level barb... b:avoid[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sorry, but this thread is about a tiger form build. There are far too many benefits from going sage vs demon. Sage True Form has a HUGE increase in HP...Sage Beasial Rage is far more awesome in FC/Delta due to the time extension (full chi pretty much always?)...Sage Shapeshifting Intensity has a HUGE increase in defense, so no it's not only gear based...Sage BKI is far better. So add all those up and you have a HUGE difference in defense AND HP.
It does depend on your own preference, but we're talking about a TIGER form (tank build) here. Demon would most likely be more human form in build style.
Also on the ream test we did, let me clarify:
we both had the exact same gear with no refines
I had sage True Form and A/H Mastery...he had Demon versions of both
we both had the same str (I had 4 str less so used a tome to even it out)
we both had O'Malley's
I believe we covered all variables for the test
I hope this clarifies WHY I stated Sage is the best option for this type of build.
There is a big difference between a tank build and a vit build or cata puller. Tanking means two things mainly, holding aggro and being able to take the damage. Sage has an advantage at the second but demon has the advantage in aggro. Just about anything in the game in PvE can be done with 15k hp, after that its all cushion to make things easier and smoother. Its holding aggro that is the trouble for barbs and for that I'd say demon has the advantage. If you have 50k hp and can't get aggro then you are not "a tank". A few of your assessments are way off and Blaxton hit most of them.
You said: Sage True Form has a huge hp advantage
Actually: Its 10% more than demon but thats not including the BKI bonus of 35%. So a sage tiger will have 175% hp (base + 35% BKI and 40% true form) and a demon would have 165% hp (base+ 35%+30%). Comparing the differences is only 6% overall in tiger form which isn't that much, really. But demons have full damage which is about a 10-20% dmg difference in tiger, kill faster and therefore take less damage, and because they are doing more damage they are generating more aggro and being a more reliable tank.
You said: Sage Bestial Rage is far more awesome.
Actually: This is debatable and I disagree with your conclusion and consider them roughly equal. Demon gives 8 chi per hit, sage extends duration to 20 seconds. In FCC most mobs are dead in a few seconds so getting as much chi back before they die is more valuable than the skill lasting 15 seconds after all the mobs have died and gaining less chi. In Delta it can be either since having bestial rage active 20/30 seconds is nice, but in my initial pull I typically use 650 chi (invoke, Sunder, Armageddon, Untamed Wrath) to set my aggro and demon delivers it much faster and is therefore more reliable to me. If you lose aggro from not being able to cast your skills it doesn't matter that your bestial lasts twice as long. If you are talking about the magic shield lasting 20 seconds I would give that advantage to sage, but 4k magic dmg can come much quicker than 20 seconds lol.
You said: Sage Shapeshifting Intensity has a HUGE increase in defense, so no it's not only gear based...
Actually: It is only gear based. It makes a substantial difference when you don't have bm, cleric, or base buffs. It makes a very small difference when you do have those buffs. Your total defense is [ (1+ str/150) x equipment value + (buffs x equipment value) + (shapeshifting intensity x equipment value)] and then out comes defense levels then out comes % reduction. This is another skill that allows sage to specialize on taking damage and demon to gain dd and aggro ability.
You said: Sage BKI is far better.
Actually: Same buff %. Sage lasts an hour which is good as a buff **** for alts, demon gives a large amount of chi to yourself and the squad. Barbs can actually pass sparks to their entire squad about as fast as a veno can pass them to one person. It makes you very useful in a squad especially right before a boss. My friends love that I can do this and have even tried to convince others to go demon just so they can be a "chi barb!" despite all the other skills that are actually important.
You said: Demon would most likely be more human form in build style.
Actually: I'd say sage spend more time in human than demons. Their tiger form aoes aren't as strong so when zhenning they'll stand up to use skills like slam, and since barbs tend not to tank in higher levels and they get to dd they chose to stand up to dd. Demons have excellent aoes in tiger form and full damage so there is no reason to stand up after a pull or if we're dding on a boss. You can argue aps build, but thats not a demon/sage argument but more a playstyle argument and aps barbs have the option to stand and aps or remain tiger form for the defense.
You said: Sage ream has a hidden higher agro than demon ream.
Actually: I highly doubt this. Demon ream can be cast more often (only by a half a second) so you get an extra ream every 15 seconds. Demon ream also doesn't experience the damage reduction of True Form so you gain more damage. If you consider other things like demon barb's getting +2% crit rate in tiger form from Shapeshifting intensify, 25% more weapon dmg is roughly equal to 2% crit depending on current crit rate and weapon base damage, Titans give 10% more damage to sage but poison fang gives 10% more damage to demon so they basically cancel each other out, you are looking at demon casting ream more often, dealing more dph, and critting more often. In your experiment you were probably just reaming after his so as the more recent ream you'd have aggro till he reamed.
You said: Leave Demon for the claw builds.
Actually: Off subject, but I'm warming up on sage clawbarbs. 45% PA debuff means they can debuff almost as effectively in human as they can in tiger. I myself cast demon Titans before each vana boss for the 5% crit rate, but that means no one else can get a crit buff if they wanted to (doesn't overwrite) so the 40% Titans +5% crit is greater than sage until after that one minute, so situationally sage Titans can be better.
Anyways, you kind of sound like you've studied the skills, compared it on paper, but never
experienced being a barb 80+. Simply put, sage skills tend to play to a barbs strengths of defense and hp where demon skills tend to balance a barb out by covering the difficulties of low dd and aggro.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'm sorry to say but this is dead wrong!
Most tiger form builds are pure tank builds, which go Sage. A tank build SHOULD go Sage for the added HP and defense.
I've also noticed Sage ream has a hidden higher agro than demon ream. I tested my theory with a demon barb friend of exact same lvl (my barb lvl92 w/sage ream; his lvl92 with demon ream). My barb held agro about 80% on 9tail in Eden.
So yea...I disagree with going demon on this build 100%.
Leave Demon for the claw builds. lol
And I disagree with you, my hubby's barb is a demon barb and i bet he can hold aggro longer then you. and demon roar or flesh ream i forgot which now gives barb a bramble like a veno's bramble. and no he isn't a claw barb, he is a TRUE barb0 -
If we take as example sage barb with gear of my dreams set as pure hp-pulling build, we would have something like :
50346 hp - 31k pdef ( 88% reduct ) - 8791-14876 tiger atck - 22% crit (16024dmg/sec + poison )
Let's switch this build to demon ?
47624 hp - 28k pdef ( 87% reduct ) - 9354-15821 tiger atck - 26% crit. (17604dmg/sec + poison )
Considering that the lower the refines and the hp will be, the smaller will be the difference in terms of hp I would never ever trade 2700 hp ( or way less ) with the difference in %crit and damage ( must also consider poison fang ) since that hp is not really goin to do any difference in any situation.
Not to mention having the chance of BO+Arma when in human form.
I see really no reasons not to pick demon barb.0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Anyways, you kind of sound like you've studied the skills, compared it on paper, but never
experienced being a barb 80+. Simply put, sage skills tend to play to a barbs strengths of defense and hp where demon skills tend to balance a barb out by covering the difficulties of low dd and aggro.
b:laugh
I guess you all disagree, but I still agree to disagree. My guess is I'm stuck on a barb being a true tank as the class was intended to be, leaving the DD to other classes. Thus, you'd want as much hp and defense as possible. If you don't think even 1k hp or 2% def is a huge increase, I don't understand why you'd bother with vit stones in gear. Why bother with such expensive stones if that's not a major increase to you? Also, explain to me why most sage skills cost more than demon (few are sold at the same price).
Also note, this isn't my first barb. I created this sage barb on a 2nd account for a Nirvy opener/buffer, but still use him for FC/Delta/etc. I don't PvP at all, so my thoughts are for PvE only.
As for aggro, the only time I pong, but not completely lose it, is on high aps sins and BMs when they spark. I have yet to see ANY barb hold aggro 100% vs sparked aps (because it's not possible). PWI needs to increase aggro on barbs skills, both sage and demon. Higher DD on a demon barb does NOT hold aggro better. Aggro control applies to the skills used. Take a squad with a demon barb vs Snake in Warsong. Then take a sage barb with the same squad. The aggro will remain the same. Once a high aps character sparks it'll be pong shortly after.
So go on thinking what ya want...I do know how to play classes as intended.0 -
A good aps Barb can hold aggro against other aps users. Also, if you have ever tried hard enough, you can easily hold 100% aggro against medium aps users like a 2.86 r8 sin or 5.0 decide+5 archers using flesh ream alone.I have yet to see ANY barb hold aggro 100% vs sparked aps (because it's not possible)
Whenever you are pulling delta.... there is a high probability to loose aggro to high refined seekers/wizzie/archers when your roar/alpha male/wrath is on cooldown. Only way to hold aggro is to do as much damage as possible. In that line, a perfectly-executed demon sunder-arma combo is by far the best AOE damage combo which will generate an significant amount of aggro over the others DD'ers. (comparatively, a sage barb can only generate at most half of the damage/aggro with that same combo) (furthermore, with just decent gear, you can solo a full-pull-FC-bigroom with just demon sunder-arma combo)Higher DD on a demon barb does NOT hold aggro better.
Demon flesh ream has a shorter cooldown (2.5 sec), which implies that you can spam it faster than the sage flesh ream (3.0 sec cooldown). Hence, a demon barb will have a better aggro control than a sage barb. [Secondly, using metal boss as a example of holding aggro demonstrate how much you ignorant. Metal boss is a 'timed' boss... which means wherever you are trying to hold aggro or not, if you dont DD fast enough, the boss will wipe the whole squad with his one-shot AOE (after a min or so).... the idea of tanking in this case is quite irrelevant]Aggro control applies to the skills used. Take a squad with a demon barb vs Snake in Warsong. Then take a sage barb with the same squad. The aggro will remain the same.
As you have demonstrated above, you don't have enough experience or exposure to the game to argue about role and usefulness of a sage or demon barb. It is true that sage tiger barbs has more Hp/p-def than its demon counterpart but HP/p-def is only one the multiple aspects of tanking. You think of idealism of barb as a pure tanking class, but, the reality is much different. we, barbs, can be much more versatile: we can tank anything in the game, we can pull mobs like a boss, we shine as a finisher in PK, we excel at pulling catapults, we can choose to be aps, we have a large array of DD-skills both in tiger and human form, we have most reliable p-def debuff, we are loved for our buffs, and obviously, we are hairy & cuddly feline mammals and many more. b:chuckleMr_Buffs - Dreamweaver wrote: »Also note, this isn't my first barb. I created this sage barb on a 2nd account for a Nirvy opener/buffer, but still use him for FC/Delta/etc. I don't PvP at all, so my thoughts are for PvE only.
My point is: you should play more often on your barb, have more exposure to other pve instances than just FC/Delta or even participate in PvP. That way you will have a proper knowledge of the advantages and limitation of a sage or demon barb. You may even have to consider it as you main before you become aware of full potential of a demon or sage barb. Have a nice day b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mr_Buffs - Dreamweaver wrote: »b:laugh
I guess you all disagree, but I still agree to disagree. My guess is I'm stuck on a barb being a true tank as the class was intended to be, leaving the DD to other classes. Thus, you'd want as much hp and defense as possible. If you don't think even 1k hp or 2% def is a huge increase, I don't understand why you'd bother with vit stones in gear. Why bother with such expensive stones if that's not a major increase to you? Also, explain to me why most sage skills cost more than demon (few are sold at the same price).
Also note, this isn't my first barb. I created this sage barb on a 2nd account for a Nirvy opener/buffer, but still use him for FC/Delta/etc. I don't PvP at all, so my thoughts are for PvE only.
As for aggro, the only time I pong, but not completely lose it, is on high aps sins and BMs when they spark. I have yet to see ANY barb hold aggro 100% vs sparked aps (because it's not possible). PWI needs to increase aggro on barbs skills, both sage and demon. Higher DD on a demon barb does NOT hold aggro better. Aggro control applies to the skills used. Take a squad with a demon barb vs Snake in Warsong. Then take a sage barb with the same squad. The aggro will remain the same. Once a high aps character sparks it'll be pong shortly after.
So go on thinking what ya want...I do know how to play classes as intended.
I know in fact ALOT of aps barbs went sage. my hubbies barb can take aggro from them anytime.
im not saying you don't now how to play your class, my hubbies barb knows how to play every class too.0 -
Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »A good aps Barb can hold aggro against other aps users. Also, if you have ever tried hard enough, you can easily hold 100% aggro against medium aps users like a 2.86 r8 sin or 5.0 decide+5 archers using flesh ream alone.KaysonHealer - Heavens Tear wrote: »I know in fact ALOT of aps barbs went sage. my hubbies barb can take aggro from them anytime.
im not saying you don't now how to play your class, my hubbies barb knows how to play every class too.
I stated from the beginning of my posts "non-aps" should go sage. So any argument about a demon aps barb is irrelevant.Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Whenever you are pulling delta.... there is a high probability to loose aggro to high refined seekers/wizzie/archers when your roar/alpha male/wrath is on cooldown. Only way to hold aggro is to do as much damage as possible. In that line, a perfectly-executed demon sunder-arma combo is by far the best AOE damage combo which will generate an significant amount of aggro over the others DD'ers. (comparatively, a sage barb can only generate at most half of the damage/aggro with that same combo) (furthermore, with just decent gear, you can solo a full-pull-FC-bigroom with just demon sunder-arma combo)
I just invoke->gather->sunder and sit a bit before hitting the group. Sunder actually holds agro quite well for a bit. When the mobs hit the zhen, I frieghten...then sunder again+roar. Not as complicated, but works well for me...and I'm not even lvl100 yet. Just another note on this...most often it's not even important to hold aggro with a seeker and BM in squad buffed with BP. So both of our points are kind of irrelevant.Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Demon flesh ream has a shorter cooldown (2.5 sec), which implies that you can spam it faster than the sage flesh ream (3.0 sec cooldown). Hence, a demon barb will have a better aggro control than a sage barb. [Secondly, using metal boss as a example of holding aggro demonstrate how much you ignorant. Metal boss is a 'timed' boss... which means wherever you are trying to hold aggro or not, if you dont DD fast enough, the boss will wipe the whole squad with his one-shot AOE (after a min or so).... the idea of tanking in this case is quite irrelevant]
As you have demonstrated above, you don't have enough experience or exposure to the game to argue about role and usefulness of a sage or demon barb. It is true that sage tiger barbs has more Hp/p-def than its demon counterpart but HP/p-def is only one the multiple aspects of tanking. You think of idealism of barb as a pure tanking class, but, the reality is much different. we, barbs, can be much more versatile: we can tank anything in the game, we can pull mobs like a boss, we shine as a finisher in PK, we excel at pulling catapults, we can choose to be aps, we have a large array of DD-skills both in tiger and human form, we have most reliable p-def debuff, we are loved for our buffs, and obviously, we are hairy & cuddly feline mammals and many more. b:chuckle
My point is: you should play more often on your barb, have more exposure to other pve instances than just FC/Delta or even participate in PvP. That way you will have a proper knowledge of the advantages and limitation of a sage or demon barb. You may even have to consider it as you main before you become aware of full potential of a demon or sage barb. Have a nice day b:bye
You sir are arrogant. My main is a 101 5aps claw/bow archer...not 1 hyper used. I've been in EVERY cave AT LEAST 100 times...legit (with, of course exception to EU). I've been playing this game since LONG before aps was even thought of. The reason I through Snake out the as an example...it's one of the FEW bosses my archer can't tank 100% through. A barb can tank him (by chance a sin or BM in squad not being able to) 1/2 way through with aps DDers not sparking til then...all spark->HF...few sec he's dead. So no, my example is NOT irrelevant. Your remarks to my example were fairly idiotic...JUST INSERT ANY BOSS if that makes you feel better.
Furthermore, I also stated HIGH aps...not medium. I don't know anyone who bothers to get 5aps and not the refines on their weapon to match. So my bad for not stating high refines, but I thought that would be implied.
My barb isn't the fail FC heads baby you're thinking obviously .
If I was into PvP I'd play a different game....but I don't PvP.lvl101 Legit archer...not 1 hyper used or multi-FC0 -
Mr_Buffs - Dreamweaver wrote: »b:laugh
I'm stuck on a barb being a true tank as the class was intended to be, leaving the DD to other classes. Thus, you'd want as much hp and defense as possible.
I've already weighed in on sage vs. demon, and how tanking is BOTH aggro and survivability, so I won't reexplore those.
I just want to say where is the idea that a barb being a "true tank" means only focusing on hp and defense coming from, and ignoring damage and aggro ability or usefulness in other areas of the game is part of that?
My barb wears 2 garnet G15+10 claws and can easily out aggro +10 G13 sins so yes, there is hope for barbs tanking. Granted my endgame is only around 30k hp (I plan on JoSD sharding instead of vit, so its lower hp but higher surviviability). Prior to switching to claws I was a high str, high dex barb anyways and remember pulling aggro just auto attacking with axes (pathetic) off the second barb in tiger form flesh reaming. Damage matters for tanking. So does skill, but we're talking about builds.
Endgame, I'll have sin like damage, more hp and pdef than I know what to do with, will be virtually impossible to kill in 1v1 pvp, have the option of axes, claws, or even bow, and have the option of 5 aps or r9 gear. I have no **** in my armor and no need to rely on a squad while still being a valuable player in a squad. This is my goal for what a barb should be and what I consider a "true tank."Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »I stated from the beginning of my posts "non-aps" should go sage. So any argument about a demon aps barb is irrelevant.
I just invoke->gather->sunder and sit a bit before hitting the group. Sunder actually holds agro quite well for a bit. When the mobs hit the zhen, I frieghten...then sunder again+roar. Not as complicated, but works well for me...and I'm not even lvl100 yet. Just another note on this...most often it's not even important to hold aggro with a seeker and BM in squad buffed with BP. So both of our points are kind of irrelevant.
My main is a 101 5aps claw/bow archer...not 1 hyper used. I've been in EVERY cave AT LEAST 100 times...legit (with, of course exception to EU). I've been playing this game since LONG before aps was even thought of. The reason I through Snake out the as an example...it's one of the FEW bosses my archer can't tank 100% through. A barb can tank him (by chance a sin or BM in squad not being able to) 1/2 way through with aps DDers not sparking til then...all spark->HF...few sec he's dead. So no, my example is NOT irrelevant. Your remarks to my example were fairly idiotic...JUST INSERT ANY BOSS if that makes you feel better.
[/COLOR]
So after aggroing everything in Delta, you use a skill that resets aggro as your last skill? Barb basics 101. And after all your talk about a "true tank" you suggest a bm or seeker should tank delta, and a bm or sin should tank metal?
Playing since before aps was thought of? Aps was around when I started 3+ years ago, just not known to most people. Took me about a week of playing to figure it out.
Non aps should go sage? We've given you about 20 examples of why demon is an excellent choice for non aps and if you search the threads, I've spoken up on why sage is an excellent choice for clawbarbs.0 -
Lets assume that aps is completely taken out of context, you have still deliberately skip the second argument on how a demon tank barb can hold better aggro on a single target with shorter cooldown on demon flesh ream.Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »
I stated from the beginning of my posts "non-aps" should go sage. So any argument about a demon aps barb is irrelevant.
With a squad with good seeker... yes, its not very productive to hold aggro all the time. But, it's more important to hold aggro over wizzies/Archers. In most rb waves, there are elite melee phy mobs which tons of HP. If you loose aggro on those mobs over wizzies or archers, their charms will tick and the some squishy ones will die... a lot. You will usually get blamed for their hp charm ticks and/or deaths.most often it's not even important to hold aggro with a seeker and BM in squad buffed with BP
Your archer (or any other alts that you may have) may have been in all the instances in the game 100 times. That does not mean in anyways that your have experience on playing your barb. Moreover, You have mentioned "A barb" instead of "MY barb" which implies that those were 'imagined' or 'observed' situations... your credibility or experience as a barb is even more questionable.You sir are arrogant. My main is a 101 5aps claw/bow archer...not 1 hyper used. I've been in EVERY cave AT LEAST 100 times...legit (with, of course exception to EU). I've been playing this game since LONG before aps was even thought of. The reason I through Snake out the as an example...it's one of the FEW bosses my archer can't tank 100% through. A barb can tank him (by chance a sin or BM in squad not being able to) 1/2 way through with aps DDers not sparking til then...all spark->HF...few sec he's dead. So no, my example is NOT irrelevant. Your remarks to my example were fairly idiotic...JUST INSERT ANY BOSS if that makes you feel better.
I'm not sure if you are aware of the significance of the following statement "the boss in metal is Timed"...
This thought have not crossed my mind until now. My first impression is that you have a very limited idea of what's a barb and what's a barb can or cannot do. Sage barbs have a bigger potential than what you've ever mentioned and it seems that you have managed to convince yourself that demon barbs are useless in the context of tanking. This impression is just getting more roots the more you try to argue. And yes, I'm being very arrogant in the posts in this thread, but it has a purpose.My barb isn't the fail FC heads baby you're thinking obviously.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Atropah - Sanctuary wrote: »I've already weighed in on sage vs. demon, and how tanking is BOTH aggro and survivability, so I won't reexplore those.
I just want to say where is the idea that a barb being a "true tank" means only focusing on hp and defense coming from, and ignoring damage and aggro ability or usefulness in other areas of the game is part of that?
My barb wears 2 garnet G15+10 claws and can easily out aggro +10 G13 sins so yes, there is hope for barbs tanking. Granted my endgame is only around 30k hp (I plan on JoSD sharding instead of vit, so its lower hp but higher surviviability). Prior to switching to claws I was a high str, high dex barb anyways and remember pulling aggro just auto attacking with axes (pathetic) off the second barb in tiger form flesh reaming. Damage matters for tanking. So does skill, but we're talking about builds.
Endgame, I'll have sin like damage, more hp and pdef than I know what to do with, will be virtually impossible to kill in 1v1 pvp, have the option of axes, claws, or even bow, and have the option of 5 aps or r9 gear. I have no **** in my armor and no need to rely on a squad while still being a valuable player in a squad. This is my goal for what a barb should be and what I consider a "true tank."
So after aggroing everything in Delta, you use a skill that resets aggro as your last skill? Barb basics 101. And after all your talk about a "true tank" you suggest a bm or seeker should tank delta, and a bm or sin should tank metal?
Playing since before aps was thought of? Aps was around when I started 3+ years ago, just not known to most people. Took me about a week of playing to figure it out.
Non aps should go sage? We've given you about 20 examples of why demon is an excellent choice for non aps and if you search the threads, I've spoken up on why sage is an excellent choice for clawbarbs.
Feel free to read my end note.
Ya...my bad...I stated it wrong on how I use it exactly. I was tired and had it backwards lol. I only use roar IF needed. Most often I don't need to use it.
True...or the gear wasn't as obtainable. Also there wasn't any Nirvy/R8 then either...at least when I first started playing. 5aps was unheard of.
b:puzzled Ya...why not if they can? Not only will the kill be faster, but it also saves on your repairs. lolKaysonHealer - Heavens Tear wrote: »I know in fact ALOT of aps barbs went sage. my hubbies barb can take aggro from them anytime.
im not saying you don't now how to play your class, my hubbies barb knows how to play every class too.
Feel free to read my end note.Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Lets assume that aps is completely taken out of context, you have still deliberately skip the second argument on how a demon tank barb can hold better aggro on a single target with shorter cooldown on demon flesh ream.
Either you hold aggro or you don't. A demon barb using ream pongs aggro just like a sage barb when high aps characters spark.Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »With a squad with good seeker... yes, its not very productive to hold aggro all the time. But, it's more important to hold aggro over wizzies/Archers. In most rb waves, there are elite melee phy mobs which tons of HP. If you loose aggro on those mobs over wizzies or archers, their charms will tick and the some squishy ones will die... a lot. You will usually get blamed for their hp charm ticks and/or deaths.
Yes I agree with that, hence why I stated how I aggro. My method has worked fairly well for me.Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Your archer (or any other alts that you may have) may have been in all the instances in the game 100 times. That does not mean in anyways that your have experience on playing your barb. Moreover, You have mentioned "A barb" instead of "MY barb" which implies that those were 'imagined' or 'observed' situations... your credibility or experience as a barb is even more questionable.
I DO have experience playing a barb. Just because I haven't tanked the particular boss stated, doesn't mean I know what skills he was using...or how to do it. Ream/devour/surf/alecrity isn't rocket science...frighten IF needed. Really not a complex issue. Also, smart people learn the basic idea from watching the class be played from someone experienced. I added my own techniques as I advanced in skill. You act as though it's so complex. b:laugh
btw I tanked every FB (at lvl) with my barb. The toughest was Pole and Nob in 69. I did however stop magic attacks 100%...that takes a little more skill than just pure tanking.
I've also taught many barbs how to tank/pull in FC on my first barb. You'd be surprised how many couldn't grasp the idea of how to effectively aggro before hitting BB (Rage->invoke->sunder).Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm not sure if you are aware of the significance of the following statement "the boss in metal is Timed"...
I am well aware of the statement's significance. Are you aware the method I stated still has the boss dead in the time needed?Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »This thought have not crossed my mind until now. My first impression is that you have a very limited idea of what's a barb and what's a barb can or cannot do. Sage barbs have a bigger potential than what you've ever mentioned and it seems that you have managed to convince yourself that demon barbs are useless in the context of tanking. This impression is just getting more roots the more you try to argue. And yes, I'm being very arrogant in the posts in this thread, but it has a purpose.
My thoughts are based off the OP...yours, and many others, are solely based off of what I said in my posts. I never said a demon barb is useless in context of tanking. You, and many others, have brought up points about human form skills and aps builds. All of which are irrelevant to the OP. There is never a good purpose for arrogance.
So to sum things up...
If you're going for damage potential, then yes, demon is for you...BUT WHY would you use this build? The build is for tiger form only, with a non-aps class weapon. With damage potential in mind, you'd want to include human form skills/aps weapon.
I hope this clarifies things a bit. I'm done discussing the topic. It's pretty much a waste of time since the build is pretty much obsolete...unless you use it how I am...to save coin on an alt's skills, and limited purposes. Though, I never did read the OP until one day, when I was bored, long after I built my second barb even.lvl101 Legit archer...not 1 hyper used or multi-FC0 -
With you method that you have mentioned, I highly doubt that you will ever hold aggro with a R8+5 Wizzie/Archer for more than 5 secs when they start AOEingYes I agree with that, hence why I stated how I aggro. My method has worked fairly well for me.
Your method, which consists of asking people not spark at the beginning, will delay the fight. That method is clearly not efficient when you are fighting a 'timed' boss. I also highly doubt that any squad will ever agree to use or at least 'try' your method.I am well aware of the statement's significance. Are you aware the method I stated still has the boss dead in the time needed?
If you or any barb were to be able in holding aggro the whole time against snakefist, its guaranteed that there will be a squad wipe. You would know that if you had actual practical experience on that boss.I DO have experience playing a barb. Just because I haven't tanked the particular boss stated, doesn't mean I know what skills he was using...or how to do it. Ream/devour/surf/alecrity isn't rocket science...frighten IF needed. Really not a complex issue. Also, smart people learn the basic idea from watching the class be played from someone experienced. I added my own techniques as I advanced in skill. You act as though it's so complex. b:laugh
You are more than a boss if you are claiming that you never missed a single alacrity.btw I tanked every FB (at lvl) with my barb. The toughest was Pole and Nob in 69. I did however stop magic attacks 100%...that takes a little more skill than just pure tanking.
If this is the way you teach people how to pull FC, there is a strong likelihood that you responsible for killing many DD's. Preventing the cleric from getting heal aggro is one thing. Preventing the other DD from getting aggro is another thing that you have failed to mention here. I not sure if you purposefully or ignorantly fail to mention when and where to use roar.I've also taught many barbs how to tank/pull in FC on my first barb. You'd be surprised how many couldn't grasp the idea of how to effectively aggro before hitting BB (Rage->invoke->sunder)Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »
My thoughts are based off the OP...yours, and many others, are solely based off of what I said in my posts. I never said a demon barb is useless in context of tanking. You, and many others, have brought up points about human form skills and aps builds. All of which are irrelevant to the OP.
So to sum things up...
If you're going for damage potential, then yes, demon is for you...BUT WHY would you use this build? The build is for tiger form only, with a non-aps class weapon. With damage potential in mind, you'd want to include human form skills/aps weapon.
I hope this clarifies things a bit. I'm done discussing the topic. It's pretty much a waste of time since the build is pretty much obsolete...unless you use it how I am...to save coin on an alt's skills, and limited purposes. Though, I never did read the OP until one day, when I was bored, long after I built my second barb even.
On you ending note, you said that the pure tiger pve barb is obsolete and you are still acting so reserved the other aspects of a barb's versatility. We, the other barbs, brought up APS or human form skill is because it complements what tiger skills cannot provide. It may not be within the idea of the original post, but it forms a major part of a barb's reality (especially at late/end game).
Depending on how much resilience you have, you will see the purpose when you come back to this thread in a few months (or in a year) and read you own posts again. If you still haven't seen a purpose or some form of instruction in arrogance, then, you might have miss quite a lot of other things... (in pwi or maybe even in your life) b:byeThere is never a good purpose for arrogance[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »I never said a demon barb is useless in context of tanking.Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »
A tank build SHOULD go Sage for the added HP and defense.
....
Leave Demon for the claw builds. lol
Not in so many words, but you kind of implied it with that comment...
Probably because a lot of people are making sage barb alts for the 1 hour buff and Titans. b:surrender It was already mentioned that sage BKI is nicer for alts. But if you actually play your barb, Demon BKI is way better as a chi fountain. Also in another comment you said you wanted to save coins on an alts skills... wouldn't a Demon Barb alt be cheaper then?b:sadMr_Buffs - Dreamweaver wrote: »Also, explain to me why most sage skills cost more than demon (few are sold at the same price).[/COLOR]
I already answered this... this was written for people who could already tank anything before going Sage or Demon and who preferred to see more damage while never having to switch out of tiger form, which a Sage barb has to do. I've seen many Sage barbs stand up to do more damage. This removes their advantage over a Demon barb who can choose to always stay in tiger form when grinding or whatever.Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »
So to sum things up...
If you're going for damage potential, then yes, demon is for you...BUT WHY would you use this build? The build is for tiger form only, with a non-aps class weapon. With damage potential in mind, you'd want to include human form skills/aps weapon.
Again it seems like you're only considering the maximum potentials... You can have more damage in mind without needing to maximize it... which is why a pure tiger build might go Demon. You can want more HP without needing to maximize it... which is why someone might shard Vit stones even if they restat all their Vit to Str or Dex.
Overall, a demon tiger barb is just more balancing. High HP/Defense with more damage output; it's less of a sacrifice than a sage tiger barb.Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »
I hope this clarifies things a bit. I'm done discussing the topic. It's pretty much a waste of time since the build is pretty much obsolete...unless you use it how I am...to save coin on an alt's skills, and limited purposes. Though, I never did read the OP until one day, when I was bored, long after I built my second barb even.
It's not really about the build being obsolete, it's that you brought up a lot of common misconceptions about Sage vs Demon. That somehow Sage is way better as a 'pure tiger tank', when in reality either choice is perfectly acceptable for different reasons; one maximizes, the other balances. The OP talked about Demon because that is the path the author had experience with and really it all comes down to what you want from your barb.0 -
im a 97 Sage Barb, 19k hp, but i got 1 little question, how do i keep aggro from wizards when they do Dragon's Breath? even lvl 10 roar and alpha male dont help then >.<
im not sure or sage roar will help me thoI do not need much,
I do not have much,
I do not miss much,
I have love and friendship,
To compensate for that!
Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
Started in genie patch
0 -
Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »well if you choose demon. congrats. you choose the one i can help you with.
Ok i had to stop here, this poke me in the eye O.o
by what u say it seems that u consider Demon barb te be better tank.
I personaly consider sage barb as better tank then demon, why? Coz sage true form gives more HP than demon, Sage SS gives better defence than demon, and as for DD part Sage titans give better attack bonus than demon so it doesn't realy matter that sage true form cuts your attack, titans buff replenish it. b:surrender0 -
Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »im a 97 Sage Barb, 19k hp, but i got 1 little question, how do i keep aggro from wizards when they do Dragon's Breath? even lvl 10 roar and alpha male dont help then >.<
im not sure or sage roar will help me tho
I don't know in wich instance u've been having problems, but that in constant aoe DD skill, wich kind of does make it hard to hold aggro on you, but i managed to hold aggro on me in delta from seeker's vortex.
I'm a skill spammer. . . so i use roar, bestial to keep my chi up, sunder, frighten, surf, and when skills get out of cd i repeat wich ever i can. So spaming your aoe skills can make aggro of mobs stay on you, i don't have sage sunder/roar/frighten all of them are lvl 10. i can't seem to get enough extra money to buy them >.<0 -
Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »im a 97 Sage Barb, 19k hp, but i got 1 little question, how do i keep aggro from wizards when they do Dragon's Breath? even lvl 10 roar and alpha male dont help then >.<
im not sure or sage roar will help me tho
Obviously, get roar level 11
I get a kick out of how you wrote your hp like it matters when tanking or holding aggro.
First off, if they're using Dragon's Breath, don't use Alpha Male. I'd even avoid roar, usually. Both reset aggro and since they're doing continuous damage with DB as soon as you reset it their aggro starts climbing. AM gives almost no aggro other than enough to prevent heal aggro and you're guaranteed to lose aggro with it, while Roar gives a fair bit of aggro and if you roar and start DDing like crazy you might hold it till the mobs are dead. Don't forget Poison Fang, as its extra damage. So many barbs focus on hp and defense then rely on aggro skills, while the people using damage for aggro get it. Maybe you need more strength in your build, maybe you just need the Poison Fang boost.
Second, you can either build aggro prior to bringing the mobs into their DB or just use your damage skills as best you can. I Roar, Surf, Sunder, Arma, Untamed Wrath, Surf, Frighten. That's a fair amount of DD and Untamed Wrath is like a second roar but doesn't reset aggro. Mobs should be dead by then.
Third, switch blessing around. Use Jones instead of O'Malleys, if thats what you were pulling with. Defense levels don't help you at all when the wizard has aggro. A good wizard also will remove their blessing if they notice they're getting aggro, but some need to be asked to either remove their blessing or switch to O'Malleys.Pazi_Ujedam - Raging Tide wrote: »Ok i had to stop here, this poke me in the eye O.o
by what u say it seems that u consider Demon barb te be better tank.
I personaly consider sage barb as better tank then demon, why? Coz sage true form gives more HP than demon, Sage SS gives better defence than demon, and as for DD part Sage titans give better attack bonus than demon so it doesn't realy matter that sage true form cuts your attack, titans buff replenish it. b:surrender
You seem knew to the forums or maybe just haven't read others responses. I'm not going to say one culti is better than the other, both have their benefits but the general consensus is sage helps increase what a barb is already good at, hp and pdef, while demon helps balance a barb out by increasing their aggro abilities with a stronger poison fang, a better sunder, a stronger arma, a more spammable flesh ream, reflect on roar, more damage in tiger form, and a higher crit rate and more dps in human and tigerform.
Yes, sage trueform gives more hp and SS gives more pdef, but by about +6 refines a barb has enough pdef and hp to tank anything in the game. Its nice, but already covered. It just makes things easier. The real issue with tanking is not hp or pdef, its aggro, and most view demon as the better path for aggro abilities and DD. Demon Titans actually gives more DD as a stronger buff for 1 minute, then sage titans is better, but demon titans is spammable for whenever needed. They're also squad buffs, so they help out the actually DD classes more than you and will help them pull aggro off the tank faster. And the 10% more weapon damage sage titans gives is countered by the 10% more weapon damage that demon poison fang gives, then demons have full dd in tiger form.
I don't think Furries really meant demon is better, although having picked it, he probably does. I agree, thats why I picked it. You disagree, thats why you picked sage. I think what he meant was he is more comfortable advising demon barbs on demon techniques. For instance, above I wrote Sunder->Arma because Sunder gives a 100% crit rate and its an excellent combo for demons. I also completely ignored using the skill Slam because I hate knocking back mobs while zhenning because my 20k dmg means the 4 other real DDs will be missing about 400k of dmg from the spread out mobs, yet because alot of sage barbs tend to standup to DD it seems a favorite aoe. Different cultis, different technique. That's what I think he meant.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0
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