Some BM PvP/PK

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qETn6dryw_g

Some random 1v1s against some of the top geared R9/skilled players on our server.

I realized I wasn't wearing attack charms throughout most the 1v1s and my genie set up changed recently cause dissolve seemed to do literally nothing. Replaced it with Mantle Ripple of Death. Really good R9 Archers and Wizards are still hard as hell to kill, I've changed my genie set up a dozen times, but haven't found anything that kills them consistently.

My interval armors are all +10/+11 with vit stones, R9 armors +10 with Saph gems, with +11 TT100 fists / +12 G15 fists, +12 R9 axes.

Enemy gears are all ~ +12 weapon +10/+12 armors, Jades

Rate and comment.

_Perses_ - Lost City · December 2011

Good vid, kinda had to jump through some until you where at west arch so I could see more than that one damn wizzy :>

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

Enjoyed your video. I loled at the sin who tried to kill you at 7:00 and was hitting only 100s. b:laugh

I have some suggestions. I hope some will be useful to you:

1. Is there a reason you choose vitality stones/saphire over Jade? It seems that wizard and archer's attack hurt you a lot.

2. Try use ocean's edge more since the slow effect is useful against kiters. My personal combo after any stun is Tiger Maw + Ocean + Drake's Ray. Both Tiger and Ocean have only 3 sec cool-down, making them spammable. Drake Ray stops auto attack so it's better to use it in the end to time the next stun perfectly.

2. You'll probably disagree with me on this one, but I still think you should get a better pole than a TT99 and use Aeolian Blade/Meteor more. I noticed you used meteor once and it stunned the archer for 5 sec, forcing him to use wing of grace.

3. Whenever you're using skills like roar and drake bash, your left hand should always be on "Esc" key. You canceled the roar in the beginning which was pro. b:dirty

4. There is a technique that BMs in China use a lot. It's called the 5-meter Drake's Bash. First of all you need a very good internet connection. I can't get on pwi now to test it out but I think this is how you do it:

Approach the enemy holding a 4.5m-5.5m pole. Then when you are at exactly that distance from the enemy, you can quickly switch to axe and use drake's bash without having to walk forward, but under the condition you must switch back to pole immediately after bash. It is unexplainable why this doesn't not work with poles whose range is greater than 5.5m.

Beyond that, it's all about reactions. Again great job man.

SadnessCard - Lothranis · December 2011

Looking forward to watching this later

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

Enjoyed your video. I loled at the sin who tried to kill you at 7:00 and was hitting only 100s. b:laugh

I have some suggestions. I hope some will be useful to you:

1. Is there a reason you choose vitality stones/saphire over Jade? It seems that wizard and archer's attack hurt you a lot.

I have vit stones in my G12 TT99 interval gear and cape. My R9 boots have Jades in em. NV pants and helm had Vit stones in em because they were sharded pre-R9 and seemed like the most viable choice back then. The saph shards in my R9 are place holders atm because I can't afford Jades yet, still farming to get those.

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

2. Try use ocean's edge more since the slow effect is useful against kiters. My personal combo after any stun is Tiger Maw + Ocean + Drake's Ray. Both Tiger and Ocean have only 3 sec cool-down, making them spammable. Drake Ray stops auto attack so it's better to use it in the end to time the next stun perfectly.

I used ocean's edge for axe spamming against the sin and psychic, but rarely used it when having fists equipped due to them being a dps weapon and not really dph spamming. Sometimes the whirlwind slow is good from my genie, but it isn't regular. I will keep that in mind next time.

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

2. You'll probably disagree with me on this one, but I still think you should get a better pole than a TT99 and use Aeolian Blade/Meteor more. I noticed you used meteor once and it stunned the archer for 5 sec, forcing him to use wing of grace.

I used to have a highly refined CV spear, but I got rid of it because I had to liquidate a lot of items to acquire my R9 gears. If I had the money I would consider getting a DD spear for the occasional farstrike, but the main role of my spear is to stun and not really do DD so I didn't pay much attention to it. But yeah, I can see your point in a self buffed 1v1 purge spear is less useful than a CV pole.

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

3. Whenever you're using skills like roar and drake bash, your left hand should always be on "Esc" key. You canceled the roar in the beginning which was pro. b:dirty

I have it above escape, but since the video is sped up by 2x it is hard to judge when to cancel when fortify happens instantly. WOG is more visible however because of the cast time.

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

4. There is a technique that BMs in China use a lot. It's called the 5-meter Drake's Bash. First of all you need a very good internet connection. I can't get on pwi now to test it out but I think this is how you do it:

Approach the enemy holding a 4.5m-5.5m pole. Then when you are at exactly that distance from the enemy, you can quickly switch to axe and use drake's bash without having to walk forward, but under the condition you must switch back to pole immediately after bash. It is unexplainable why this doesn't not work with poles whose range is greater than 5.5m.

Beyond that, it's all about reactions. Again great job man.

Wow, I have never heard of this... I will have to do more research on that.

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

Just to add to what I said about 5-meter bash:

It's been tested that the longer the cast time, the easier it is to glitch distance with it. Some people have tested the following cases:

1. Holding a 6 meter pike and position yourself 5 meters from the enemy (you can measure 5 meters by using roar of pride). Switch to 3.5m axe to use Drake's Bash, then quickly switch back to pike. No matter how pro you are, it's impossible to cast it using axe without walking forward.

2. Holding a 6 meter pike and position yourself 5 meters from the enemy. Try to glitch Drake's Bash (1.5s cast time). The success rate is about 65%.

3. Holding a 6 meter pike and position yourself 6 meters from the enemy. Try to glitch Aeolian Blade (2.0s cast time). The success rate is 99%.

I'm speculating that it's doable with Highland Cleave, but I'm not sure.

stealthxbomber · December 2011

Great fights, nice to see another bm who uses leaps and mo tzun more often. What are the adds on your G15 fists? I saw them as #3 on your skill bar later in the video; in what situation would you use them above your TT100's? b:victory

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just to add to what I said about 5-meter bash:

It's been tested that the longer the cast time, the easier it is to glitch distance with it. Some people have tested the following cases:

1. Holding a 6 meter pike and position yourself 5 meters from the enemy (you can measure 5 meters by using roar of pride). Switch to 3.5m axe to use Drake's Bash, then quickly switch back to pike. No matter how pro you are, it's impossible to cast it using axe without walking forward.

2. Holding a 6 meter pike and position yourself 5 meters from the enemy. Try to glitch Drake's Bash (1.5s cast time). The success rate is about 65%.

3. Holding a 6 meter pike and position yourself 6 meters from the enemy. Try to glitch Aeolian Blade (2.0s cast time). The success rate is 99%.

I'm speculating that it's doable with Highland Cleave, but I'm not sure.

I've been able to do it a couple times in the past but did not know it was replicable or how I even did it so thought I was lagging. I would bash sometimes and while the person was leaping back it still hit them across their leap.

stealthxbomber wrote: »

Great fights, nice to see another bm who uses leaps and mo tzun more often. What are the adds on your G15 fists? I saw them as #3 on your skill bar later in the video; in what situation would you use them above your TT100's? b:victory

My G15 fists have 3% crit -.05 int and 19 vit. The only time I really use em is for the occasional Bolt of Tyreseus (BoT) in air fights to lock people in the air when they are trying to drop. Their DPS is a bit lower than the TT100s because of less interval, so I tend to keep it in hand as a DPH weapon for bolt when I'm fighting physics and sins.

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

A video showing a 4.5m drake's bash as well as glitching fire/crit, which you can't do anymore. But distance is still doable.

http://www.aipai.com/c7/Pjs3ISAiKmgnai8p.html

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

A video showing a 4.5m drake's bash as well as glitching fire/crit, which you can't do anymore. But distance is still doable.

http://www.aipai.com/c7/Pjs3ISAiKmgnai8p.html

Ah... I see, I was able to do it in game just now. A simple cancel cast it is then. CC GS and Drake Bash then keep rotating back to spear... It's a shame CC is gone now, that's why I haven't been able to do replicate it recently cause CC was patched haha.

Edit: I guess the only problem then is if they were moving during your CC it could be interrupted possibly, but interesting stuff to know as the system registers your weapon range based off your previous chain attack, so if you CC it still keeps my character at 5 meters + distance when I'm drake bashing.

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

I'm happy to share my experience with the best BM on my server. b:chuckle

Against wizards, sometimes instead of starting with Roar of Pride, which can be locked if wizard shrinks, you can start at 5.5m maximum and use a drake's bash followed by polearm skill-spamming. You can switch back to axe if the enemy is close enough. (That's why I said getting a good pole was useful). Very hard for wizards to counter that. Polearm's range is the nightmare of all magic class. b:sin

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2011

Very interesting. I've probaly done this by accident before. But I'll have to disagree with the "Bash at distance then polearm skill spam" part. Even with a GoF R8 recast pole, it'll still be 50 attack lvls behind R9 axes, so not really a point. It'll be useful to catch them on the run tho.

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

Yes. Currently no pole can match rank 9 axe. That's why I still use the 85 FCC gold pole for its +2 meter range lol. In fact, BM should be able to use all rank weapons. Not just 1...like the rank 8 for example...

Edit: except Warsoul Pike

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/32154

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Very interesting. I've probaly done this by accident before. But I'll have to disagree with the "Bash at distance then polearm skill spam" part. Even with a GoF R8 recast pole, it'll still be 50 attack lvls behind R9 axes, so not really a point. It'll be useful to catch them on the run tho.

I'd tend to think the same. It would be an amazing opening skill because it's from a distance, but I'd immediately switch over to axe / fist depending on the situation because no spear can match r9 dph or fist dps atm. I really like the purge spear though, it's a one of a kind weapon that has purge on it. It's something nice us BMs can somewhat compensate for the OPness of R9 archers.

I am scared to see what will happen when the new expansion hits and all the new skills are being thrown in that could throw BMs further into the pit of doom, as the removal of CC already hurt BMs pretty bad in 1v1 capabilities.

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2011

That R9 spear (not the poleblade) model looked so damn sexy in that yewtoob vid b:cry.

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

That R9 spear (not the poleblade) model looked so damn sexy in that yewtoob vid b:cry.

Cough, it should be free. Already had to pay billions for the first set of R9; it'd suck to fork out another to get the spear / sword / fist lol.

I'm still at a loss of how it is possible to beat a good R9 demon 100 dex genie mage/R9 archer consistently without relying on soul of fire/oxygen bubble/Heart of Steel... I'm thinking of going full out chi drain to prevent ultis/BV cause I sure as hell can't tank them in my interval gear. I mean I might with my full R9 on, but it kills my chi regen abilities significantly.

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

Wizard's new skill Arcane Light is going to be a pain, many people in the test server are complaining about it. It procs once every 16 seconds, which is way too short. Also archers will be able to leap, but that's not a big problem since our leaps have shorter cooldowns.

All we got was a useless AoE, a teleport which has 2 min cooldown and semi-useful range. A pull which is only 70% chance or lower if the soulforce is unmatched. It's tough, but I'll never quit tho. At least BMs are the best in duels.

For fighting against demon archers...The question is how to use marrow effectively. Since demon archers like to use quickshot + normal attack you at range, wouldn't it be better to not use marrow at all? I saw in the video that you used magic marrow, and the archer starts auto attacking you, then you switched to physical (big mistake), then he used metal attack... Against sage archers, who like to use metal skills more, using magic marrow makes sense.

Calvin - Lost City · December 2011

u r horribad, nerd.

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2011

Ikr? You should have been rolled by cheze's CV claws instead.

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

Calvin - Lost City wrote: »

u r horribad, nerd.

Hatarrrrrr, where you been?

X_Rays - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wizard's new skill Arcane Light is going to be a pain, many people in the test server are complaining about it. It procs once every 16 seconds, which is way too short. Also archers will be able to leap, but that's not a big problem since our leaps have shorter cooldowns.

All we got was a useless AoE, a teleport which has 2 min cooldown and semi-useful range. A pull which is only 70% chance or lower if the soulforce is unmatched. It's tough, but I'll never quit tho. At least BMs are the best in duels.

For fighting against demon archers...The question is how to use marrow effectively. Since demon archers like to use quickshot + normal attack you at range, wouldn't it be better to not use marrow at all? I saw in the video that you used magic marrow, and the archer starts auto attacking you, then you switched to physical (big mistake), then he used metal attack... Against sage archers, who like to use metal skills more, using magic marrow makes sense.

I think I actually survived because of the quick phys marrow when I was down to 2K HP. I tend to demon bell + mage marrow because it gives me both defenses, but since bell runs out a lot faster the mage marrow hurts me bad. When he does the aim low thing when I have no chi I can't leap back either, so it was kind of an oh-**** move. I actually expected to die, but mage def charm tanked it after charm tick.

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2011

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cough, it should be free. Already had to pay billions for the first set of R9; it'd suck to fork out another to get the spear / sword / fist lol.

I'd pay for it, f**k, just release it!

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm still at a loss of how it is possible to beat a good R9 demon 100 dex genie mage/R9 archer consistently without relying on soul of fire/oxygen bubble/Heart of Steel... I'm thinking of going full out chi drain to prevent ultis/BV cause I sure as hell can't tank them in my interval gear. I mean I might with my full R9 on, but it kills my chi regen abilities significantly.

Well as of right now after I full +10, +12 Mage isn't going to be able to kill me alone, and this is w/o jade. Back then when I had +8, I lost to some from 14k BIDS crits or them using OI on me (xD). But they can't really kill me now. So if I don't kill them, it'll be a draw. I fight most class now with my full MAG TW geine for chi, since switching to interval cuts my HP by like half. That solves the chi problem but also means I'm without offensive genie skills so the fight really drags on. I'm going to try I find an 81+ infliction to make a STR/MAG hybrid with cloud added to offensive skills and see how that goes.

Archer's much harder. One with a chi genie can spam anti stun and kite the cooldowns and +12 bow hurts even through Marrow + Bell. Back at +8 armor I got rolled by +12 bow and +10/11 armor with someone who knew how to play. Add in drop from sky kite, I just don't see my axes do enough damage in the little time between anti stuns to kill ones with above +10 armor and don't suck. Maybe if I +12, stat full STR and use offensive genie?

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Well as of right now after I full +10, +12 Mage isn't going to be able to kill me alone, and this is w/o jade. Back then when I had +8, I lost to some from 14k BIDS crits or them using OI on me (xD). But they can't really kill me now. So if I don't kill them, it'll be a draw. I fight most class now with my full MAG TW geine for chi, since switching to interval cuts my HP by like half. That solves the chi problem but also means I'm without offensive genie skills so the fight really drags on. I'm going to try I find an 81+ infliction to make a STR/MAG hybrid with cloud added to offensive skills and see how that goes.

Archer's much harder. One with a chi genie can spam anti stun and kite the cooldowns and +12 bow hurts even through Marrow + Bell. Back at +8 armor I got rolled by +12 bow and +10/11 armor with someone who knew how to play. Add in drop from sky kite, I just don't see my axes do enough damage I the little time between anti stuns to kill ones with above +10 armor and don't suck. Maybe if I +12, stat full STR and use offensive genie?

Eh, in a self buffed 1v1, with my interval gear on and no jades to back up my defense, the undine strike, spark genie skill, extreme poison, frenzy and blade tempest from a +12 r9 wizard was hitting me for 22K non crit.

I think I could tank it with my R9 armors, but my G12 interval gear is hopeless. Unless I tried to full axe 1v1 a 100 dex genie mage. Don't see it going well, but maybe.

I'm thinking it's best to go full out STR genie with all 3 chi draining skills to prevent any ultis/control skills form their side. Virulent poison + dissolve + mantle ripple of death + mo zun taunt is able to drain over 4 sparks.

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2011

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh, in a self buffed 1v1, with my interval gear on and no jades to back up my defense, the undine strike, spark genie skill, extreme poison, frenzy and blade tempest from a +12 r9 wizard was hitting me for 22K non crit. I think I could tank it with my R9 armors, but my G12 interval gear is hopeless. Unless I tried to full axe 1v1 a 100 dex genie mage. Don't see it going well, but maybe.

Meh, 100 DEX genie has long energy recov time, so there's still a window, given that they don't just flat out run away during cooldown. I've been able to axe down a couple through jades with +10 axes and being VIT build, but I can't exactly call those "good players". Once you catch them on cooldown, Dragon Bane works wonders. Lol 22k ~_~. Yeah... I'm not taking off my R9 vs another R9 lol. If they don't sleep me before hand, and if they are busy smashing all those keys for combo they most likely don't, TE + Bell makes BT tickle.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm thinking it's best to go full out STR genie with all 3 chi draining skills to prevent any ultis/control skills form their side. Virulent poison + dissolve + mantle ripple of death + mo zun taunt is able to drain over 4 sparks.

Yeah I was looking at the chi drain skills because I was getting spammed on me by someone and it wa annyoing as ****.

stealthxbomber · December 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Meh, 100 DEX genie has long energy recov time, so there's still a window, given that they don't just flat out run away during cooldown. I've been able to axe down a couple through jades with +10 axes and being VIT build, but I can't exactly call those "good players". Once you catch them on cooldown, Dragon Bane works wonders. Lol 22k ~_~. Yeah... I'm not taking off my R9 vs another R9 lol. If they don't sleep me before hand, and if they are busy smashing all those keys for combo they most likely don't, TE + Bell makes BT tickle.

When you use Dragon Bane do you purify it with a pot or something? I can't see how it'd be good otherwise.

TheDan - Sanctuary · December 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Meh, 100 DEX genie has long energy recov time, so there's still a window, given that they don't just flat out run away during cooldown. I've been able to axe down a couple through jades with +10 axes and being VIT build, but I can't exactly call those "good players". Once you catch them on cooldown, Dragon Bane works wonders. Lol 22k ~_~. Yeah... I'm not taking off my R9 vs another R9 lol. If they don't sleep me before hand, and if they are busy smashing all those keys for combo they most likely don't, TE + Bell makes BT tickle.

Yeah I was looking at the chi drain skills because I was getting spammed on me by someone and it wa annyoing as ****.

I think it is easier said than done lol. I have no trouble against Sage R9 +12 wizards, as I would have been able to kill them with ease without all their control skills. I can't think of any other way to consistently beat a highly skilled demon one though, due to all their control skills which pretty much enable them the ability to be indefinitely break out of stun-lock. I would run out of chi very fast using R9 axes with all their kiting, paralyzing, and stunning. I've tried playing defensively but whenever the fight drags out too long, chi becomes impossible to re-gain. Only thing I still need to try out is going full offense chi drain STR genie.

But yeah, the people I'm fighting in my videos are like the top of the line top server PKers, or so people consider them as the best in some of the forum threads we have.

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2011

stealthxbomber wrote: »

When you use Dragon Bane do you purify it with a pot or something? I can't see how it'd be good otherwise.

It's obviously best if purified, but it's beneficial even without purify. I have about 300 STR so it means that my base damage is 3.75 times my weapon damage. Bane taking 50% weapon damage leaves me with 3.25 and that's only a 13% reduction. If you consider that axe skills hit for base damage + extra damage from skill, the overall loss in damage is even less that 13%. My BM has about 20% crit, so gaining 25 would be 25/120=20.8% in damage overtime. And this is only looking at the averages in the long run. Even if I lose 25% overall damage for 25% overall crit damage, it will be a good trade off because crit-ing 25% more for 75% damage is still better to PK someone because it offers more spike. Bane 13% for 20, a bargain.

In essence, instead of hitting for 100s with 20% crit rate, Bane lets me hit for 87+ with 45% crit rate, a much better option to combine with zerk.

stealthxbomber · December 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

It's obviously best if purified, but it's beneficial even without purify. I have about 300 STR so it means that my base damage is 3.75 times my weapon damage. Bane taking 50% weapon damage leaves me with 3.25 and that's only a 13% reduction. If you consider that axe skills hit for base damage + extra damage from skill, the overall loss in damage is even less that 13%. My BM has about 20% crit, so gaining 25 would be 25/120=20.8% in damage overtime. And this is only looking at the averages in the long run. Even if I lose 25% overall damage for 25% overall crit damage, it will be a good trade off because crit-ing 25% more for 75% damage is still better to PK someone because it offers more spike. Bane 13% for 20, a bargain.

In essence, instead of hitting for 100s with 20% crit rate, Bane lets me hit for 87+ with 45% crit rate, a much better option to combine with zerk.

I see, ty for explaining.

Superfeng - Lost City · December 2011

Were you able to find any other cool things that gives BM an edge besides 5 meter Drake Bash in the Chinese forums??

Can you pm me the link to the Chinese forums please?

This is for X_Ray

X_Rays - Sanctuary · December 2011

Superfeng - Lost City wrote: »

Were you able to find any other cool things that gives BM an edge besides 5 meter Drake Bash in the Chinese forums??

Can you pm me the link to the Chinese forums please?

This is for X_Ray

http://bbs.178.com/forum-717-1.html

Whole section of the forum decidated to BM's techniques, especially dueling techniques. Dueling in China is a big thing among BMs, more so than pvp. In a duel between BMs, the rules are no genie and no antistun.

Superfeng - Lost City · December 2011

Thanks man!, I am more interested in pvp

Now to read an entire new forum...

Divine_Death - Harshlands · December 2011

No anti stun, out of the dumb dueling rules I've heard, that one's pretty high up on the list.

Some BM PvP/PK

Comments

Categories