Sage BP or Demon APS?
MareAssassin - Lost City
Posts: 100 Arc User
The purpose of this "guide" is to inform people which is better: Choosing Sage for BP (Bloodpaint, sin buff b:dirty ;...;) or going Demon for APS and using normal BP. b:victory
So, let's see. In case you don't know, Sage BP absorbs 3% of all physical melee damage and normal BP only absorbs 2%.
There are many possibilities to compare the 2 of them. Let's start.
1. A Sage Sin with Sage BP and Demon Sin with normal or Demon BP (doesn't really make a difference) and both having 3.33 APS.
Who gets the most HP from BP?
Let's pretend that 3% BP gives us 90 HP per attack and that 2% BP gives us 60 HP per attack.
90 x 3 = 270 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Sage.
60 x 3 = 180 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP.
2. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/3.33 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/4.0 APS.
Let's pretend that 3% BP gives us 90 HP per attack and that 2% BP gives us 60 HP per attack. (Same as before)
90 x 3 = 270 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Sage.
60 x 4 = 240 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
3. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/4.0 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/3.33 APS.
This one is pretty clever but I'll still give the example. I'll continue with the same numbers.
90 x 4 = 360 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Sage.
60 x 3 = 180 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
4. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/4.0 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/4.0 APS.
Same numbers, same example.
90 x 4 = 360 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Sage.
60 x 4 = 240 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
5. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/4.0 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/5.0 APS (Demon spark).
Same numbers, same example.
90 x 4 = 360 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Sage.
60 x 5 = 300 HP per second with 5.0 APS (Demon spark) as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
6. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/3.33 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/5.0 APS (Demon spark).
Same numbers, same example.
90 x 3 = 270 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Sage.
60 x 5 = 300 HP per second with 5.0 APS (Demon spark) as a Demon.
Demon gets the most HP from BP.
So as you can see, most of the times, Sage BP wins most of the times. So, now, it's all about economy. It's all about if you are willing to get the money you need.
Sage is more expensive but the BP is very good and useful, and you can always get more APS, as a Sage I mean, from Genie Skills like Relentless Courage. Demon is cheaper for the APS but has worse Demon skills. Like, Sage Dagger Devotion is much better than Demon Dagger Devotion.
Oh well, this is all, thank you for reading this "guide" and I hope you liked it. It's my very first guide and I never played a Sin till lvl 100. Cya guys! b:byeb:laugh
So, let's see. In case you don't know, Sage BP absorbs 3% of all physical melee damage and normal BP only absorbs 2%.
There are many possibilities to compare the 2 of them. Let's start.
1. A Sage Sin with Sage BP and Demon Sin with normal or Demon BP (doesn't really make a difference) and both having 3.33 APS.
Who gets the most HP from BP?
Let's pretend that 3% BP gives us 90 HP per attack and that 2% BP gives us 60 HP per attack.
90 x 3 = 270 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Sage.
60 x 3 = 180 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP.
2. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/3.33 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/4.0 APS.
Let's pretend that 3% BP gives us 90 HP per attack and that 2% BP gives us 60 HP per attack. (Same as before)
90 x 3 = 270 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Sage.
60 x 4 = 240 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
3. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/4.0 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/3.33 APS.
This one is pretty clever but I'll still give the example. I'll continue with the same numbers.
90 x 4 = 360 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Sage.
60 x 3 = 180 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
4. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/4.0 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/4.0 APS.
Same numbers, same example.
90 x 4 = 360 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Sage.
60 x 4 = 240 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
5. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/4.0 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/5.0 APS (Demon spark).
Same numbers, same example.
90 x 4 = 360 HP per second with 4.0 APS as a Sage.
60 x 5 = 300 HP per second with 5.0 APS (Demon spark) as a Demon.
Sage gets the most HP from BP too.
6. A Sage Sin with Sage BP/3.33 APS and Demon Sin with normal OR Demon BP/5.0 APS (Demon spark).
Same numbers, same example.
90 x 3 = 270 HP per second with 3.33 APS as a Sage.
60 x 5 = 300 HP per second with 5.0 APS (Demon spark) as a Demon.
Demon gets the most HP from BP.
So as you can see, most of the times, Sage BP wins most of the times. So, now, it's all about economy. It's all about if you are willing to get the money you need.
Sage is more expensive but the BP is very good and useful, and you can always get more APS, as a Sage I mean, from Genie Skills like Relentless Courage. Demon is cheaper for the APS but has worse Demon skills. Like, Sage Dagger Devotion is much better than Demon Dagger Devotion.
Oh well, this is all, thank you for reading this "guide" and I hope you liked it. It's my very first guide and I never played a Sin till lvl 100. Cya guys! b:byeb:laugh
Post edited by MareAssassin - Lost City on
0
Comments
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You left out too many factors. Plus your math isn't on par.MareAssassin - Lost City wrote: »It's my very first guide and I never played a Sin till lvl 100.
/facehoof[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!0 -
*facedesk*0
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once you reach a nice refine grade sage bp or demon wont really matter..also demon skills are so nice for pk if into that...and after all demon is free charge 0,05+0,05 aps...i have to say in end w/e floats your boat0
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And let me put it to you like I put it to everybody else.
Sage Sin - more PvE Friendly.
Demon Sin - more PvP Friendly.
Pick your poison, I personally chose demon.
btw, Nyxyo demon spark is actually -.15 (which is how 3.33 goes to 5.0.)Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I had to completely stop typing and talking in vent so I could hate this thread with my whole body.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
i ll agree to disagree in sense that spark demon jump from 3,33 to 4.0 to 5.0 ..is 2 items worth of 0.05...unless things changed to much 2 months i didn't play hahab:chuckle0
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Sage Tidal is also OP for PvP_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »Sage Sin - more PvE Friendly.
Demon Sin - more PvP Friendly._Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
btw, Nyxyo demon spark is actually -.15 (which is how 3.33 goes to 5.0.)
Both of you need to read the stickies... it's -0.1 for 2.22 to 3.33 base APS but changes for other value of base attack speed.Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »i ll agree to disagree in sense that spark demon jump from 3,33 to 4.0 to 5.0 ..is 2 items worth of 0.05...unless things changed to much 2 months i didn't play hahab:chuckle0 -
Oh dear god.
You did all that to figure that Demon sins heal slightly more only when comparing 3.33 Sage to 5.0 Demon? /facepalm
BP isn't the only reason to go Sage. If you're talking survivability, you have to count Focused Mind and Sage Spark.
And what about cases where survivability is irrelevant? When you have high enough refines and shards, you'll survive with either culti just fine. Would you still go further into surviving? Or would you start steering towards more damage?
Trust me, trying to figure the answer with numbers won't work. I tried.
b:cuteI am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh dear god.
You did all that to figure that Demon sins heal slightly more only when comparing 3.33 Sage to 5.0 Demon? /facepalm
BP isn't the only reason to go Sage. If you're talking survivability, you have to count Focused Mind and Sage Spark.
And what about cases where survivability is irrelevant? When you have high enough refines and shards, you'll survive with either culti just fine. Would you still go further into surviving? Or would you start steering towards more damage?
Trust me, trying to figure the answer with numbers won't work. I tried.
b:cute
Like I said, I had to completely stop typing and talking in vent so I could hate this thread with my whole body.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »And let me put it to you like I put it to everybody else.
Sage Sin - more PvE Friendly.
Demon Sin - more PvP Friendly.
Pick your poison, I personally chose demon.
btw, Nyxyo demon spark is actually -.15 (which is how 3.33 goes to 5.0.)
3.33 (.3 sec/attack) to 5.0 (.2 sec/attack) is -.1.
I think Demon Sins are more PvE friendly for their easier aps and the fact you can get better defenses and better attack. More JoSD in armor can easily outweigh the 25% sage advantage while still having the natural aps, you can also be 5.0 without wearing tt99 ornaments and get something better. Sage have some very useful PvP skills and the better dph skills. So I would say Sage=PvP and Demon=PvE but its actually pretty balanced.
To the OP:
-Not one of these is 2.86 sage, which is rank 8/9 with all gear and the majority of 100+ sins.
-You didn't include demon/sage mastery where demon gets a dps advantage and would be healing more.
-A 5.0 sin has the option of sparking more for 20% hp heal, which is more likely to favor the higher aps of demon.
-Sage buff is universal.
And after all that... it only takes a few attacks to fill a sins entire hp bar whether you have sage or demon so it doesn't matter a whole entire alot.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
... You can't just say that the the increment from Demon Spark is a set amount of -interval, since it depends on the amount of -interval you already have and the weapon used.
but for sins, the relevant points would be 1.25 as the minimum and 4.0 as the maximum. At 1.25, you'll go from 0.8 to 0.6, thus -0.2. At 4.0, you go from 0.25 to 0.2, so -0.05.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
b:chuckle never choose a culti on a single skill, or just assume that build and playstyle of both are just identical.Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh dear god.
You did all that to figure that Demon sins heal slightly more only when comparing 3.33 Sage to 5.0 Demon? /facepalm
BP isn't the only reason to go Sage. If you're talking survivability, you have to count Focused Mind and Sage Spark.
And what about cases where survivability is irrelevant? When you have high enough refines and shards, you'll survive with either culti just fine. Would you still go further into surviving? Or would you start steering towards more damage?
Trust me, trying to figure the answer with numbers won't work. I tried.
b:cute
It takes a mathematician to say that... Maybe you just need a new cellphone b:avoid0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »It takes a mathematician to say that... Maybe you just need a new cellphone b:avoid
... But I got a new one just three months ago!I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
The crazy thing about this is that some people actually come here an read this **** an think it is real....the part that lets you know it is all total junk is this part
"Oh well, this is all, thank you for reading this "guide" and I hope you liked it. It's my very first guide and I never played a Sin till lvl 100. Cya guys! "0 -
heres what i think is best and am planning to do.......
ill take demon first for the aps and get too lvl 100, then i will do nirvana runs and get my endgame gears and then my aps Tome afterwards ill keep doing nirvana till i officially have no life and get a pair of Regicides a Lunar nirvana Bow and Nivy unconsicoussnes then i will reset my stats so that i can use the Regicides and then i will reset too SAGE then i will get sage Bp b:victory
so after i become sage i will haf 4 aps with dags or 5 aps with claws( if i plan on it).
EDIT: and OH YEAH i forgot to mention I HAAAAAAAATE PVP TW PK DUELS AND ANYTHING THT HAS TO DO WITH HURTING OTHER PLAYERS. i am a pacifist so I DONT GIV A ****** DAMN. i just want to PvE
thats it0 -
demon ftw..whocares about your stank lil extra 1%..WE DONT NEED IT..hell atleast i dotn on my sin,i rather throw in a pot every now and then and BOOM..more hp than using a sage bp.I prob been sage bp'ed on my sin or even this toon like..hmmm..5 times lol.
my mathmatical theory is:
demon bp used 2000000000 times to the square root of sage bp being used 5 times on me equals who gives a damn about sage.This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.0 -
OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »demon ftw..whocares about your stank lil extra 1%..WE DONT NEED IT..hell atleast i dotn on my sin,i rather throw in a pot every now and then and BOOM..more hp than using a sage bp.I prob been sage bp'ed on my sin or even this toon like..hmmm..5 times lol.
my mathmatical theory is:
demon bp used 2000000000 times to the square root of sage bp being used 5 times on me equals who gives a damn about sage.
The people with GoF or SS on daggers.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Ok do this: Make a full endgame demon sin.
Then make a 89 sin with Sage BP. Log in every hour and buff your demon sin. VOILA!! You got Sage BP+ demon spark. b:shutupI am a spammer among trolls,
Words are my weapons, smileys my shield,
I have spammed over 1000 pages,
Ignoring dislikes, nor listening to admins,
Yet my posts are rarely deleted,
So as I troll, Give me, Unlimited Spam Works!
b:laugh0 -
thanks for bumping this, didn't see it before and it was a funny read.b:thanks
Best argument I've seen is sins don't need the 3% bloodpaint, so go demon. Now I'm really tempted to go demon...0 -
Keep in mind, Sage sins require genie skill to get 5.0
If you like to pvp, is trading off genie skill worth it for aps?
When you could be using it for other things such as survivability.
Although with a 4.0 base, i dont see the need to go to 5.00
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