Keep my veno or go to Sin

AyS - Momaganon
AyS - Momaganon Posts: 3 Arc User
edited December 2011 in Venomancer
Hi there!
well im playing as a veno+herc and i really enjoy it... but the prob is
I asked a lot of high lv's how is like to be high lv veno (about squads mainly..)
they told me that it going to be really hard to get into squads at high lv's. as veno Ofc.
well i love to solo instence and i love fast kill's so i tryed to play a sin , atm he is low lv
and i feel powerless compare to my veno, i mean its really nice playing sin but harder.

The question is , at high lv's sin is more needed in squads then veno+herc/nix?
grind / gameplay are also the things on my mind..

Im comfused b:surrender pls answer frome your expirience ,
and sorry for the spelling i know my english **** .
Post edited by AyS - Momaganon on

Comments

  • BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver
    BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    It is indeed true that not only venos but all caster classes are now often being rejected from squads, however, there are still some smart enough people who actually want venos for their runs. It makes me happy every time I see a nirv squad asking for a veno. People still don't really realize we make things go faster than having another aps dd in sq.

    If you ask me it is all up to you. I've always been a veno and I always will, I just love this class. I have a sin as well... well actually 2 sins but I always go back to being a sexy foxeh. Both classes have their pros and cons. It depends on your play style and what you want to do in game. If you are really worried about getting into squads while enjoying playing your veno, you can find a good faction that will be willing to take you in runs. But if you want things to go faster, be 'op' and if you are a fan of melee classes then go sin.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I have an easier time getting in squad for Aba/Sot as a wiz/veno than getting in an RB with sin. Venos also have caster nirvana and are still requested for traditional nirvana.
    People still don't really realize we make things go faster than having another aps dd in sq.

    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.
  • VeraTigress - Heavens Tear
    VeraTigress - Heavens Tear Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    thumbs wrote: »


    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.


    Very true, i found a few of those on my other toons. i do have ALL classes except for BM. But then again i solo most of my things except for FB's and culti's if i can't do it solo.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver
    BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.

    Yeah, you're right. It makes me very sad seeing a 'I can only do venomous' veno when I'm on my other chars. Some don't even keep melees brambled and don't toss sparks when needed. Ahhh, where did all the old-school venos go... Even I no longer play and only visit pwi from time to time.

    So it is very important to teach newcomers on how to play a veno the right way! >:o
    Well, if AyS makes a good name for himself/herself and let people see s/he knows his/her class(I hope) they will gladly accept him/her in their squad! But after all, it all depends on the people forming the squad.
  • Itori - Lost City
    Itori - Lost City Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    I have an easier time getting in squad for Aba/Sot as a wiz/veno than getting in an RB with sin. Venos also have caster nirvana and are still requested for traditional nirvana.



    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.

    I agree with this.. plus when I'm making a non-regular-nv squad, I only invite the first sin that pm's me... funny when you say 'looking for more BH ___" and a bunch of sins pm you their r8 daggers...

    I remember once during that month long 2x, someone in guild saying to kick the veno and get another DD after that run.. and someone asked why, they said it'd be faster if they got another interval DD instead of veno. This sort of made me wonder, since during that 2x I had joined many squads lasting no longer than 15 mins, as I didnt usually see my brambles off of anyone unless they died on KFC or something. I also remember a sin telling me his average squad lasted 20-30 min (but I dont think he was very high interval one)

    @ the OP:
    Do what ever you enjoy more. I think a sin could have more farming power, but I personally could not enjoy one at all, and I really love playing veno. I just find it fun and a bit more complicated than any class that can successfully marco on a boss.. I sure as hell havent found a way to macro on a veno, nor would I want to XD
    It doesnt matter what class you play, as long as you get good at it you will be welcome asset in any squad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    There is no shame in losing when there is no honor in winning.
  • Tabbycat - Harshlands
    Tabbycat - Harshlands Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    AyS: I have a sin and a veno and i enjoy playing them both. In my opinion both classes are labor intensive with the sin getting aps gear and the veno getting a herc/nix. On my server nowadays, there are too many sins compared to other classses and there are barely any venos so getting squads on either can be a pain. With the issue of getting into squads, go with people you know. If you go with people you know, they know you know how to play your character properly so theyll invite you over and over again.

    In my opinion, venos are better grinders than sins. Venos have more aoe skills than sins and venos also have the capability of letting their pet take the damage while the veno nukes like crazy. The sin takes all the damage, but with bp it might not matter. But with sins aps are everything so if you cant kill the mobs fast enough your dead.

    With gameplay, its a personal preference. I prefer my veno over my sin anyday, but thats just me.


    thumbs wrote: »
    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.


    Surprisingly thumbs, I actually agree with you on this. I made my veno a few years ago when we didnt have fcs and sfcs to powerl lvl the heck out of our toons. I've seen tons of people power lvl theyre lowbie and dont even bother to properly learn how to effectively play their characters. They just power lvl it to 100/101, cs to get R8/9 and call it a day.

    I was in a squad with another veno one time and all they did was stand there. I was amping, purging, ironwood, passing chi when the other members of my squad needed it, and i had my herc out dding alongside the tank. I asked the veno why she didnt help and she replyed "help? how do i help?" I happened to be the squad leader and i kicked her straight away.

    Even tho i definately agree with you, dont forget there are venos out there that actually know what theyre doing.
    Im a pretty veno
    Short and sexy
    here is my tail
    and my ears are pointy
    When i get all pissed off
    hear me shout,
    Ill **** ur **** up and knock you out b:pleased
  • DryadLaFey - Sanctuary
    DryadLaFey - Sanctuary Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    I have an easier time getting in squad for Aba/Sot as a wiz/veno than getting in an RB with sin. Venos also have caster nirvana and are still requested for traditional nirvana.



    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.

    I don't know about other venos but my pet is rarely out in nirvana because it's dead. Even my buffed herc gets one shotted by the bosses in nirvana. Sometimes I don't even bring him out anymore because seems the time I take to summon could be better used debuffing and DDing considering he's just going to die anyway.
    b:cute
  • DryadLaFey - Sanctuary
    DryadLaFey - Sanctuary Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Tabbycat - Harshlands wrote: »
    AyS: I have a sin and a veno and i enjoy playing them both...

    In my opinion, venos are better grinders than sins. Venos have more aoe skills than sins and venos also have the capability of letting their pet take the damage while the veno nukes like crazy. The sin takes all the damage, but with bp it might not matter. But with sins aps are everything so if you cant kill the mobs fast enough your dead.

    With gameplay, its a personal preference. I prefer my veno over my sin anyday, but thats just me...

    .



    They both have 2 AOEs.
    My sin's aps is only 2.5 sparked and I have no trouble killing the mobs before I'm dead.

    I have both as well as a cleric and the cleric seems to net the most profit grinding but I enjoy all of them depending on my mood.
    b:cute
  • QuietKitteh - Lost City
    QuietKitteh - Lost City Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Best reply towards this, make urself wanted.

    Playing a class just for the easiness wont make it fun for you. Play the class that interrests you and that you WANT to play. Master it, make your skills perfected and more and more will want you in squads.

    The better you do the better reputation you get and then more ppls will want you.

    All the ppls who plvl and cant master their class b4 100 are completely useless and deserves to be kicked from squads. Learn your role and make others see the area's your good at so they want you.

    (This is not a brag) There are some ppls like me that can learn classes of playing it 20lvls and looking how others play. Which is fast, but the thing with that is that we can never be 100% perfect on one toon since we practice them all. So ofc ppls with 100% perfection are way more wanted.

    As ive said through the most here, learn your toon, perfect it, and play the class you LIKE to play. The game is here to be fun, not to be the most needed in squads. If your a pro veno that ppls dont want to invite to squads thats their loss.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1557305004&dateline=1324470521[/SIGPIC]
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    QuietKitteh - Lost City wrote: »
    All the ppls who plvl and cant master their class b4 100 are completely useless and deserves to be kicked from squads. Learn your role and make others see the area's your good at so they want you..

    There's too many back seat drivers in the game. Fail sins and venos that want resurrection buff and cry to mystic for it all through an FF, or BH. Ones who wine, nag, and even harass a mystic for not using pet to lure (I'm not losing Salvation's MP to help heal/ protect, or Storm Mistress's for extra DD, just to lure a boss that I can genie lure).

    Basically what I'm saying is that mastery really depends on perception at times.
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    There's too many back seat drivers in the game. Fail sins and venos that want resurrection buff and cry to mystic for it all through an FF, or BH. Ones who wine, nag, and even harass a mystic for not using pet to lure (I'm not losing Salvation's MP to help heal/ protect, or Storm Mistress's for extra DD, just to lure a boss that I can genie lure).

    Basically what I'm saying is that mastery really depends on perception at times.
    PWI is driven by the cash shop to the very point player effort and proficiency are secondary attributes. We talk about venos here but it gets much worse with other classes.... My BM has Sage Bell but when I have another BM in squad like 70%+ of them will keep overriding mine with lvl10 or demon and will keep doing on and on near squad even when I ask them not to. In nirvana it's just plain pathetic that archers will attempt to use fists only to get squished at least twice a run. Sins are also terrible... Most don't really seem to have subsea which is 1 of the most powerful debuffs in game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Jin_Wang - Lost City
    Jin_Wang - Lost City Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    My answer is, keep playing your werefox until you are bored, play both of them, but make sure you focus on one at a time (each week). Don't worry about high level gameplay just yet, you should play through the game instead of worry about high levels, you may or may not regret in a way because people are too picky when it comes to higher levels.
    DryadLaFey - Sanctuary wrote: »
    They both have 2 AOEs.
    My sin's aps is only 2.5 sparked and I have no trouble killing the mobs before I'm dead.

    I have both as well as a cleric and the cleric seems to net the most profit grinding but I enjoy all of them depending on my mood.

    2 AOEs?

    First AOE werefox gets is Befuddling Mist, which is gained at 19... Sounds like single targets? Yes the description says "the target", but it is misleading. Its actually a frontal spray attack (like barbarian's swell and blademaster's fan of flames). Test it out yourself, I have been AOEing with this skill plus life leech alone and sometimes with no pet at all. And my fox is Light Armor built, pure fox form. The best part of this skill is that it is a 3 second cool down WITH a heavy accuracy debuff which makes it a very strong AOE when it comes to zhenning / AOE.

    Second AOE for werefox is Noxious Gas (learned at 39), an AOE that also poisons the target and also the targets by "X" meters around that same target.

    The third of course parasitic nova (learned at 59), works just like noxious gas, but instead of poison, its immobilize and silence. Proven to be very useful in PVE and PVP and of course Zhenning.

    Forth AOE Malefic crush (learned at 59) seems to be an AOE as the description says, which is supposed to do hit all targets within 8 meters around the user. It is mainly a PVP skill (mana burn)

    And most importantly myriad rainbow in fox form (learned at 79), which only does bleed / poison and the most threatening p.def / m.def debuff which actually aids the squads for killing much faster, magic or physical.

    That counts as 5 AOEs
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    6, if you're sage (sage purge is AOE) though I don't think an AOE purge is very useful outside mass PVP.
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  • LenaKitteh - Dreamweaver
    LenaKitteh - Dreamweaver Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Time and again I've tried classes and come back to Veno. I've had a 9x Cleric, now I have a 99 Sin.. but I still come back to my Herc Veno.

    If you have a good faction, you play your class well and you're fun/easy to be around, people normally don't have a problem taking you. Obviously you wouldn't ask for a squad that specifically states 'BM+Sin for Nirvy', etc. Yes, Sins (and BM's) have a much easier time getting into squads.. but they are also usually the ones making the squads. Don't let that deter you. LEARN your skills. There's many useful ones you should be using but I won't list them all here.

    You can try to talk your way into a squad as well. A lot of players don't realize the great skills Venos have beyond Amp and Purge.. Myriad Rainbow Fox and Human forms are EPIC. Talk them up - use them, often. Amp as soon as it's cooled down. Don't ignore everyone else and pay attention when the BM pulls Heavens Flame or Barb hits Invoke.

    Pass sparks whenever you can to whoever needs them, don't toss Venomous like it's going out of style. Use Ironwood as much as possible (especially if it's Demon or Sage). Keep up with the squad and don't make them wait for you. Keep your squad members buffed and keep an eye out if you need to save a fellow squad member. Watch the bosses buffs, learn the buffs and debuffs and Purge when needed. Always be watching and aware of what's going on, quick to react. Have a pet out when it's reasonable (some bosses seal and cause some issue), and if you aren't sure ASK your squad. Don't assume.

    The real issue is that newcomers to the game have been told to roll a Veno (or even a Sin) to make quick cash and they can basically faceroll and be lazy. So if you are a great player, you have to go up against this stereotype every day - and in EVERY squad show them you are the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

    Just be a great squad member, join a good faction and you will have fun. This game is NOT all APS. Sure, it's a huge highlight because it makes everything faster so moar profit, but there are a lot of players who aren't focused on APS.

    Play whatever class you enjoy, and hey why not have both? Have a Veno AND a Sin. Both can farm, both farm well, one is just faster than the other.

    Don't be discouraged by others telling you Venos can't get squads, Veno class is dead, QQ, etc. If you're a good player you will make friends who will take you EVERYWHERE - TT, FC, Nirvy, etc.

    And, if all else fails, start your own squad :)

    Good luck!
  • SerenityMare - Dreamweaver
    SerenityMare - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It is indeed true that not only venos but all caster classes are now often being rejected from squads, however, there are still some smart enough people who actually want venos for their runs. It makes me happy every time I see a nirv squad asking for a veno. People still don't really realize we make things go faster than having another aps dd in sq.

    If you ask me it is all up to you. I've always been a veno and I always will, I just love this class. I have a sin as well... well actually 2 sins but I always go back to being a sexy foxeh. Both classes have their pros and cons. It depends on your play style and what you want to do in game. If you are really worried about getting into squads while enjoying playing your veno, you can find a good faction that will be willing to take you in runs. But if you want things to go faster, be 'op' and if you are a fan of melee classes then go sin.

    I love you. b:cute +1 to everything you said.
    thumbs wrote: »
    Speaking as someone that often forms squads; I'll let you now why I reject venos most of the time. -It's simply because most don't amp, don't ironwood, are too lazy to summon and use a pet, and despite being one of the fastest classes; they fall behind and let others do the work. It's a class for ambitious players but overtaken by lazy moochbags.

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with you here. I don't know why people like using venomous a lot. I love using amp+ironwood right before a BM's HF and just watch the target's HP zoom down.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aaralyna - Archosaur
    Aaralyna - Archosaur Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Well... this was definitely interesting. I'm slightly scared now. I don't really want people to reject me later on because they think I'm no help. I do try to help as much as I can, not all venos just stand and do nothing and I direly hope that I won't one day. Yes, I've seen high-level venos in action and it's true that sometimes they rarely send out their pet, bramble, purge, or do anything useful...
    Venos were made for people who really want to get into it and give it their all. If they just stand back and do nothing, it's just a waste. A veno can make it go along a lot faster if they try, however, most are just too lazy. What I just do, as I'm not that powerful myself, but I've tried to, up to this point, stay on track and learn the useful skills.... Whenever it's a boss no one tells me to do anything... either they expect me to do something or nothing. Venos can really lend a good hand if they put themselves to it, however there are too many who just don't have the time or/and patience to raise a veno properly :(
    And any other advice on how to go?
  • Aijou - Harshlands
    Aijou - Harshlands Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ok so.
    I do this thing where I skip all the previous responses and just answer because I'm lazy and I'm gonna do that again now.

    As always, go for what you personally enjoy - not what will be in demand end-game. I've done this before and I regret the investments I've made in characters I was bored out of my mind playing.

    As you're on a PvE server I'll push that as one point in favor of playing a Venomancer - they're great solo-ists, good in instances and useful in many PvE situations. End-game, venomancers and sins lean in different directions of playstyle. An assassin with high APS and a good weapon is good mainly for damage dealing (on bosses and in instances). Venomancers become more support based, making use of their debuffs.

    The mindset of the game however has become more APS biased (since the last time I played anyhow) making some squads more likely to invite a sin over a veno - the good squads however would make use of the veno. They're both great classes end-game really.

    For things like PVP that's an entirely different situation. Both are very good in end-game PvP (granted the veno has a phoenix). In Territory War a veno is one of (if not THE) the MOST wanted classes. Nothing is more fun than popping your debuffs on a cata barb and watching them die in a matter of seconds all thanks to you.

    So basically they're both really great - but if you want TW definitely go for veno. If you want open PVP a sin is the best 1v1 class in game.
    Both are an equal mix of self-sufficient and coin sinks.

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