Sage BM's and R8 recast.

Zaradon - Heavens Tear
Zaradon - Heavens Tear Posts: 62 Arc User
edited December 2011 in Blademaster
As title says, recasting the R8 chest/boots would give the chance for sage BM's a great boost to have perma 5 aps (yay) with fist/claws.

I was testing my built with being full str and rolling myself full dex once.

I do have +12 TT100 fists, giving me a great boost to my accuracy/critstrike also if we look at the side of the HP it's not a major factor - since sage mastery is more about DPS.

So, my i was planning to roll my TT100 fist into G15 claws (Vanquishers) and try my luck with x2 0.05.

However, giving me an even greater boost to my DPS i wont be needing THAT much of dmg where'as half of my hits will miss with full str?

I've come up with 2 builds, full STR and full DEX.


Full str build; http://pwcalc.com/7c82e2425744c809

4000 accuracy, great damage, low crit strike - All a decent BM wants, eh?

Full dex build; http://pwcalc.com/cabf9d2c3debb636

Commenting on this one since, during my dex built i came up with some good ideas.


Having all the aps gear gets me to 1 aps (unhasted) and to the maximum range using HS.

Smack works using bows aswell.

Any tips/suggestions please? Stay full str or roll dex? :)


Thanks in advance.
Post edited by Zaradon - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    What the ****.....


    I don't even....



    **** it, i'm out.

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    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

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  • Broederjr - Lost City
    Broederjr - Lost City Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    get this and you will be pro http://pwcalc.com/dfdb5e173cb41214
    vs sins that is
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Broederjr - Lost City wrote: »
    get this and you will be pro http://pwcalc.com/dfdb5e173cb41214
    vs sins that is

    pwcalc warrior to the rescue. That build is so bad, lol. You just need a herd of Archers to follow you around and keep Blessing of the Condor on, apparently.


    To the OP, I'm not sure of your goal but both builds seem rather ineffective but the strength build is more practical. Demon mastery actually provides more dps (1% > 15% weapon mastery when talking endgame damage) so the strength build will help cover that damage gap.

    Dex builds have 2 main purposes; Landing stuns on sins and archers, and crits during triple sparks. As a sage BM you are at a disadvantage in pk because your stuns are more accuracy based than demons and shorter so more need to be used, meaning an archer or sin is more likely to break a stun lock and stealth or kite away. In pk a dex build is reasonably fine. In fact, since spark multiplies weapon damage and doesn't add anything to do with strength adding to dex for accuracy and crit rate is a good way to increase damage. This is why archers are almost able to compete with our dps when wearing claws. I did the calculations a while ago and if we can get around 650 dex its more effective than 650 strength when we are talking permaspark. Unfortunately, its still less effective when unsparked and 650 dex is pretty impossible. Not to mention what the loss of so much strength does to your defenses...

    Lastly, you are banking on some pretty high odds. -.1 int on a G15 weapon is a 1/256 chance. with attack levels is becomes 1/17067. I'm not sure of the odds on the rank 8 equipment yet, but that will also require multiple rolls. Basically, this is a dream build. Not saying its impossible, because PWI keep proving waste enough money on the game and anything is possible, but you'll prolly end up being a 4.0 sage bm that takes 5 seconds to cast a triple spark because they need to cyclone first.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Broederjr - Lost City
    Broederjr - Lost City Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    pwcalc warrior to the rescue. That build is so bad, lol. You just need a herd of Archers to follow you around and keep Blessing of the Condor on, apparently.


    To the OP, I'm not sure of your goal but both builds seem rather ineffective but the strength build is more practical. Demon mastery actually provides more dps (1% > 15% weapon mastery when talking endgame damage) so the strength build will help cover that damage gap.

    Dex builds have 2 main purposes; Landing stuns on sins and archers, and crits during triple sparks. As a sage BM you are at a disadvantage in pk because your stuns are more accuracy based than demons and shorter so more need to be used, meaning an archer or sin is more likely to break a stun lock and stealth or kite away. In pk a dex build is reasonably fine. In fact, since spark multiplies weapon damage and doesn't add anything to do with strength adding to dex for accuracy and crit rate is a good way to increase damage. This is why archers are almost able to compete with our dps when wearing claws. I did the calculations a while ago and if we can get around 650 dex its more effective than 650 strength when we are talking permaspark. Unfortunately, its still less effective when unsparked and 650 dex is pretty impossible. Not to mention what the loss of so much strength does to your defenses...

    Lastly, you are banking on some pretty high odds. -.1 int on a G15 weapon is a 1/256 chance. with attack levels is becomes 1/17067. I'm not sure of the odds on the rank 8 equipment yet, but that will also require multiple rolls. Basically, this is a dream build. Not saying its impossible, because PWI keep proving waste enough money on the game and anything is possible, but you'll prolly end up being a 4.0 sage bm that takes 5 seconds to cast a triple spark because they need to cyclone first.

    it was a troll lol no1 would ever use it i jsut got bored and wondering what the max evasion would be
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    pwcalc warrior to the rescue. That build is so bad, lol. You just need a herd of Archers to follow you around and keep Blessing of the Condor on, apparently.

    Blessing of the Condor is a self buff.
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  • Broederjr - Lost City
    Broederjr - Lost City Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Blessing of the Condor is a self buff.

    b:avoid can make a fist archer like that using same built but as i said it was jsut to see about max evasion but it was jsut a troll on this tread
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Blessing of the Condor is a self buff.

    Ah, right. It's Elven Alacrity that's the single target buff. Thanks.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Zaradon - Heavens Tear
    Zaradon - Heavens Tear Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Thanks on your replies and i would like to add one more thing.

    First, we sage BM's always lack for critstrike and thus why i am testing out different stat/gears before making my last decision.

    I am using prolly the cheapest interval gear out there and am still wondering wether i should roll myself into demon or stay sage and get my R8 recast chest with interval addon to be perma 5 aps.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Holy ****, look what I found out: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9509

    90% > 75%

    have fun doing 2 full deltas and paying for sage you demon bms.
  • Seamen - Dreamweaver
    Seamen - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Zaradon - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Thanks on your replies and i would like to add one more thing.

    First, we sage BM's always lack for critstrike and thus why i am testing out different stat/gears before making my last decision.

    I am using prolly the cheapest interval gear out there and am still wondering wether i should roll myself into demon or stay sage and get my R8 recast chest with interval addon to be perma 5 aps.

    I think you should stay sage bc honestly demon and sage sparks dmg increase is the same. Only difference is sage lessens the phys dmg taken and demon increases aps. Demon has some good skills like hf n such but I think overall even for pvp and tw sage all the way my point of view
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Seamen - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I think you should stay sage bc honestly demon and sage sparks dmg increase is the same. Only difference is sage lessens the phys dmg taken and demon increases aps. Demon has some good skills like hf n such but I think overall even for pvp and tw sage all the way my point of view

    Please oh please show us why? I'd really love to see the evidence.
  • Seamen - Dreamweaver
    Seamen - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ok smart *** check difference between sage and demon spark, compare them I know I am right. Second in tw sage bms are better bc the reduction of phys def
  • Zaradon - Heavens Tear
    Zaradon - Heavens Tear Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Eh, well - no catfight please.

    I have noticed sage classes and not only BM's but the rest sage classes are a lot more selfdependant than demon classes. Why? Simple, sage spark.

    Heightened survivability, along with JoSD's filled in your full R9 set might give you some advantages to kite a lot of DD power.


    Well, talking about PVE matter, i think APS sage is the way to and if you are a sage with R8 recast chest wich has 0.05 interval - congrats you are now 5 perma aps sage BM with 90% DPS along with 25% reduced damage taken.


    I wouldn't say its too shabby for PVE purpose but also PvP, 5 perma aps helps a lot to gain chi.

    The skills might not be the best but lets face the reality, the player is the one playing the toon. So it's the player not the skills, i've tested stunlocking and found out that stunlocking is not impossible, its really good/possible/effective for even sage BM's, its just harder than the BM's stunlocking.


    Here's the plan for my endgame PVE built; http://pwcalc.com/10b7d4a201837a4b

    That's a nice thread and keep your suggestions coming, waiting on your helpful replies :>
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Demons are far better at 1v1 PvP, they're much cheaper to gear up which makes farming for your stuff much MUCH easier, and they have better stuns and HF, along with a skill that can keep you target's chi in check if you bother to use it. Sage may have better axe skills in TW and a damage reducing spark, but I'll take Demon over Sage any day.
  • Seamen - Dreamweaver
    Seamen - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    That is true and I think overall it is what is best for you and how you use your toon. So there is your evidence lvl 60 nub. And also you said r8 recast has an automatic .05 int ? Or you got to get it from the random stats
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Seamen - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That is true and I think overall it is what is best for you and how you use your toon. So there is your evidence lvl 60 nub. And also you said r8 recast has an automatic .05 int ? Or you got to get it from the random stats

    Regardless of playstyle or the player behind the character Demon has certain advantages over Sage. Doesn't matter what I do after I stun you for 7.5 seconds, you're still stunned that long no matter how I play my class. Just sayin'.
  • Seamen - Dreamweaver
    Seamen - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    No problem but now r8 chest recast you get -.05 int automatically but I am pretty sure it is just a blue stat that is random w the other ones
  • Zaradon - Heavens Tear
    Zaradon - Heavens Tear Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    It's a random stat and the chest piece has the highest % to get interval bonus.

    Only chest and footwear can have int bonus.


    Here's some more info about the R8 gears.

    Chest piece > http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/32274 1,37%
    Footwear > http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/32729 0,15%


    However, going back to the topic. I'd still wonder why people think sage is so darn worthless since they survive better?

    You may think demon BM's are over all, but heck i see great BM's and i mean _G_R_E_A_T_ BM's being sage full str's.

    The reason why i am planning on full dex is high hit chance, many crits (more damage output) Hence full str gives amazingly good blows but there are 2 problems, low crit and too many misses.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Seamen - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ok smart *** check difference between sage and demon spark, compare them I know I am right. Second in tw sage bms are better bc the reduction of phys def

    I'm sorry but you're using spark as a factor in tw no less and you're calling me a levle 60 nub?b:laughb:laughb:laugh

    Also I wasn't trying to be a smart ***, I just wanted to see evidence, you just said demon > sage in pvp/tw, I wanted to see why you thought that.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you're using spark as a factor in tw no less and you're calling me a levle 60 nub?b:laughb:laughb:laugh

    Also I wasn't trying to be a smart ***, I just wanted to see evidence, you just said demon > sage in pvp/tw, I wanted to see why you thought that.

    It's because Sage spark is super pro and reduces damage taken by 25%
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    I'd pick demon over sage for TW, anyday.

    Reliable stuns. It sucks to miss a sin or an archer with a stun in TW. And because you usually aren't "real" DD in TW the longer stun lengths help teammates pickup what you were stunned.

    Bell is superior for TW because it becomes a tool for the run and stun game, or amping a squadmates defenses at a critical time or right before a 1v1

    Better marrows. Or rather, marrows that won't leave 1/2 your defenses ****ed.

    9 second HF. 'nough said.

    Diamond Sutra and a 10% crit bump when in an aoe frenzy.




    This has been discussed before and basically sage is only superior if you want 50 chi after you die... *mumbles soemthing about fricken triple sparking in TW?*
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • X_Rays - Sanctuary
    X_Rays - Sanctuary Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    The only sage skills that I like are drake ray's 5s cooldown and spirit chaser's reduced casting.

    To me, the best part about demon BM is the 5s cooldown of Aeolian Blade, and the 33% chance, 5s stun from meteor mash. Those two skills require 0 chi and they have very short cooldowns. So when you have no chi in TW, just spam those 2 skills with a purge poleblade. If purge procs, mission over-accomplished.
  • Zaradon - Heavens Tear
    Zaradon - Heavens Tear Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'd pick demon over sage for TW, anyday.

    Reliable stuns. It sucks to miss a sin or an archer with a stun in TW. And because you usually aren't "real" DD in TW the longer stun lengths help teammates pickup what you were stunned.

    Bell is superior for TW because it becomes a tool for the run and stun game, or amping a squadmates defenses at a critical time or right before a 1v1

    Better marrows. Or rather, marrows that won't leave 1/2 your defenses ****ed.

    9 second HF. 'nough said.

    Diamond Sutra and a 10% crit bump when in an aoe frenzy.




    This has been discussed before and basically sage is only superior if you want 50 chi after you die... *mumbles soemthing about fricken triple sparking in TW?*


    Agreed on the skill differences about demon ones being better. Moreover, i wouldn't mind being demon if i knew the exact def lvl required to compensate the sage spark.

    Sage spark 25% vs 30 def lvl? more, less? or sage spark = 25 def lvl?

    It would be pretty handful of help if any of you could tell what def lvl i need to be a sage-like demon.

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