Netherworld Guidance vs Rank 9

EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear
EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear Posts: 73 Arc User
edited December 2011 in Assassin
I saw a Netherworld Guidance with 2x -.05 int and GoF. Just curious, isnt that better than rank 9? Can anyone confirm it with some math plz? b:bye
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Post edited by EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    It's not better than Rank 9.

    The only G15 that is better than Rank 9 is one with GoF, -0.05 interval and +130 max phys attack.

    The reason for this is simple: when you have every single piece of -interval, the second -interval on your weapon is useless if you're a Demon. This is because it'd only bring your unsparked APS from 3.33 to 4.0, but it wouldn't change your sparked APS, so it'd be a wasted space.

    And out of the remaining mods, the +130 max phys attack gives the most damage.

    The thing is, the chance to roll those specific mods is 1:8,000, so Rank 9 is kinda more cost effective. Not to mention Rank 9 will still have superior DPH, and the actual difference in DPS is negligible.

    Though not actual proof, here's the relevant PWCalcs:
    R9
    2x -0.05 Netherworld Guidance
    The Ideal Nirvana

    The respective DPS are:
    286,409
    281,560
    289,526
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  • EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear
    EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    So with +130 Max attack and the -int and GoF NG with outDD rank 9?
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So with +130 Max attack and the -int and GoF NG with outDD rank 9?

    Yes, but it's only going to be ~1% better, at an expected cost that amounts to about 30 times that of Rank 9.

    And Rank 9 will still be superior in terms of DPH.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    EvilCorpse - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So with +130 Max attack and the -int and GoF NG with outDD rank 9?

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=15266121#post15266121
  • Brivido - Dreamweaver
    Brivido - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Given that the difference in neglegible in all 3 cases, the good thing of the 2x-int would be that you can drop the tt 99 ornaments and get some cube gear, upping ur survivability.

    or

    later on when r8 reforge will be more common the extra .05 int will allow A LOT more leway when going for boots, plate and braces and still wanting 5 aps (if i recall correctly 3 pieces set bonus of -0.1 in and 1.2k hp, plus being able to shard with whatever u want)
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    We cannot say that 2 -ints are useless if the sin is sage. Lets all please keep this in mind when doing topics like this. Everyone just assumes the only relevant thing to discuss is demon sin damage.

    On the second topic of re-roll chances, silly things can happen with re-rolls (I got 20 atk 1 crit -int on first re-roll), but anyone that would go into it TRYING to get those modifiers is either nuts or bill gates.
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  • FiveAps - Dreamweaver
    FiveAps - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    u rerolled r8 daggs with those stats?
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    We cannot say that 2 -ints are useless if the sin is sage. Lets all please keep this in mind when doing topics like this. Everyone just assumes the only relevant thing to discuss is demon sin damage.

    I am a sage sin myself, and I tend to talk in terms of Demon sins because majority of all sins are Demon.

    Obviously, for Sages, the extra -interval is rather key. For example, I'm going for G13 Nirvana instead of R8 because the 3.33 or eventual 4.0 will allow me to spark more often and use Subsea and Power Dash more often than 2.5 or the eventual 2.86. And the sparking more part is especially crucial in settings where the spark immunity is key for survival, such as when I end up tanking Snakefist.
    On the second topic of re-roll chances, silly things can happen with re-rolls (I got 20 atk 1 crit -int on first re-roll), but anyone that would go into it TRYING to get those modifiers is either nuts or bill gates.

    That is true.

    Similarly, anyone who goes after G15 Nirvana with any specific combination of 3 modifiers is nuts. Most people who get G15 Nirvana only want a single -interval and either GoF, SS or the +20 Attack Levels. Which is still a sensible goal, considering that there's a 1:20 chance for that.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Even though R9 would out dd G15 with -.1 and GoF when spark spamming I believe the G15 would out dd R9 daggers when unsparked. "4.0 base and good dph" vs. "2.86 with better dph". In that case G15 would be better in pk.

    Not to mention the option of dropping a -int piece of gear for other gear option. You could aim for either increased dps or increased defenses.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    What Olbaze said.

    Which is why I made a post about these daggers.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    While on paper the sparked dps of R9 is like 1% higher, in practice the 5.0 build will have higher DPS due to having an easier time sparking and having the extra time needed to use skills like subsea strike / power dash / wolf emblem. A 4.0 spark cycle has 0 tolerance for any error or deviation while maintaining permaspark. Even if you take a fraction of a second to use inner harmony that small delay will give the dps advantage to the 5.0 build.


    You would have to be a total carebear if you think having a 4.0 unsparked GoF weapon is useless.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    While on paper the sparked dps of R9 is like 1% higher, in practice the 5.0 build will have higher DPS due to having an easier time sparking and having the extra time needed to use skills like subsea strike / power dash / wolf emblem. A 4.0 spark cycle has 0 tolerance for any error or deviation while maintaining permaspark. Even if you take a fraction of a second to use inner harmony that small delay will give the dps advantage to the 5.0 build.


    You would have to be a total carebear if you think having a 4.0 unsparked GoF weapon is useless.

    5.0 windshield GoF is like so totally wtfpwnbbqsausenotcoolworthless in PK like totally super duper uncool not needed to bypass charms.
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  • coopoor
    coopoor Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    with that being said i do more damage against any g15 dagger i have tested this out in nirvana runs an waited till they have aggro an still i take it from the easily g15 may be faster but r9 weapon hits harder in tw i see advantge to r9 weapon over g15 in hand to hand combat. R9 with aps gear is a hard char too overcome
  • Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    yeah, I have had our servers best g15 dagger sin try to steal my world boss and ....fail when i used my rank 9, however the dmg dif is so close it is affected by timing,crit,percent,runes,gems,buffs, etc...so with one being alot cheaper and the ohter not gaurnteeing the ability to kill steal....
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yeah, I have had our servers best g15 dagger sin try to steal my world boss and ....fail when i used my rank 9, however the dmg dif is so close it is affected by timing,crit,percent,runes,gems,buffs, etc...so with one being alot cheaper and the ohter not gaurnteeing the ability to kill steal....

    With damage being equal, 5.0 > 4.0.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    With damage being equal, 5.0 > 4.0.

    True.

    The same is also very true for lower APS numbers as well.

    I recently went from 2.5 aps +6 R8 to 3.33 aps +6 G13, where the difference in DPS is about 2% in my case, but I definitely prefer the G13's because now I can actually use Power Dash much more often. Not to mention that now BB isn't as vexing as before, since now it enables me to Windshield to 4.0, which is much more helpful than the 2.86 I had before.
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  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Not quite sure how BB would affect your attack rate. Care to explain that, or are you not referring to the cleric skill?
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not quite sure how BB would affect your attack rate. Care to explain that, or are you not referring to the cleric skill?

    I am referring to it.

    Since I'm Sage, BB overrides the damage reduction effect on my spark. With R8, I'd be 2.5 normally, or 2.86 with Windshield. However, neither of these is enough to maintain a stable permanent spark. Also it's kinda annoying to know that a Demon with my gear isn't actually getting any kind of downside to BB. The -0.05 increase from using Windshield is rather useless here.

    With 3.33 base and BB, I get the option of having 4.0 with Windshield and the reduction from BB. Going from 3.33 to 4.0 is actually meaningful, since the latter allows me to use Power Dash rather often.
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