Sage Sin vs Aps vs Windshield/Genie Skill - Trade offs

fookadook · November 2011

Hey guys.
Currently I am a lvl 100 Sage sin.

I have been contemplating on whether to join the dark side(Demon)
I love the sage sins because their skills dominate, thats why I chose it, I never knew the demon spark made such a big difference when it comes to APS

The cons of a Sage sin -
-Costs more to obtain APS
-Trade off Genie skills for APS (could be using genie skills for other things)

Anybody know what a level 10 windshield stacked with 3.33 base APS leads to? Im not sure whether its 4.0 or less.

I tried it on the character calculator, but they dont go into detail with genie skills.

Converting to demon would only be just until I have all the gear I need to get higher in APS, its currently really hard to get into Nirvana squads to get my gear.
(Which will take forever, since it will require a Pan Gu/Love: Up and Down tome)

Im currently 2.0 base, 2.22 with windshield, 2.50 with relentless courage.

Gear I have:
R8 Daggers
R8 Chest Piece -1.0 int
TT99 Wrists (Ashura) -1.0 int
TT99 Boots (Ashura)
WGTM energetic robe -0.5 int

-0.5 in from TT99 Combines.

(2.0 base)

Gear I still need currently -
TT99 orns -0.5 int
2nd cast nirvana greaves -0.5 int
1st cast Nirvana Barrier thorn daggers -1.0

with these I will be 3.33 base.

Questions:
-Do you think it will be worth it to change to demon since I only need these few pieces of gears left?

-What is the APS when 3.33 base stacked with windshield?

-Does Sage BP really make that much of a difference? everyone seems to kill for it lol.

Discussion:
-Your thoughts on sage/demon sins.

Thanks for reading =3

Olbaze - Sanctuary · November 2011

fookadook wrote: »

Questions:
-Do you think it will be worth it to change to demon since I only need these few pieces of gears left?

-What is the APS when 3.33 base stacked with windshield?

It's going to be pretty hard if you want to change to Demon. Not only because you lose all of the skills you've learned, but also because you need to complete the lvl 100 cultivation for that.

The APS you'd get from using Windshield at 3.33 is 4.0. Also, leveling up windshield does not affect the attack speed increase, just the damage reduction and cost. And leveling up makes Windshield not spammable so it's not worth it.

fookadook · November 2011

Thanks for replying

I guess there isnt any harm in levelling windsheild since Im super squishy anyway lol

I am trying to do 100 culti now x.x
on top of finding a squad for a full rb run.
If 3.33 base with windshield leads to 4.0 then I think I can manage.

Thanks =3

Olbaze - Sanctuary · November 2011

fookadook wrote: »

Thanks for replying

I guess there isnt any harm in levelling windsheild since Im super squishy anyway lol

I am trying to do 100 culti now x.x
on top of finding a squad for a full rb run.
If 3.33 base with windshield leads to 4.0 then I think I can manage.

Thanks =3

The problem with leveling Windshield is that if you do, you won't be able to use it too often, making it effective useless. The keypoint in Windshield lies in the low cost at lvl 1.

Empu - Sanctuary · November 2011

fookadook wrote: »

Questions:
-Do you think it will be worth it to change to demon since I only need these few pieces of gears left?

-What is the APS when 3.33 base stacked with windshield?

-Does Sage BP really make that much of a difference? everyone seems to kill for it lol.

Discussion:
-Your thoughts on sage/demon sins.

Thanks for reading =3

- I don't think it's worth to change culti. Imo, the only reason to change culti would be having r9 stuff. For the rest it will be easier to just make a new sin on same account and get an account stash. Depending on how many skills you got to lvl11, it will also be cheaper (cause you will have to get r8 again) and you end up with 2 lvl100+ toons to collect vana keys etc.

- Like said above, 3.33 aps with windshield of any lvl gets to 4.0

- Both cultis have their pros, that are valid on any budget. I'm sage (and the build/armor I choose with it) and like how my sin is a versatile character, that's not bound to being there for the bosses only. Everything depends on what you like to do.

Keep in mind that being demon with your current gear won't make you much more wanted then you are now. For most part, sins get wanted for vana/tt/etc based on a multitude of reasons : the damage you do, timing of (genie)skils, staying alive. It's the ppl that add you to fl and pm you, that are worth going with. WC is mostly filled with idiots or ppl that have just 1 or 2 spots to fill. If you are 5 aps with G13, you will still be rejected if another with higher refine or with G15 pms. By the time you reach epic gear with high refines, ppl will want you to come with them and don't really matter wether you are sage or demon. Those who do care and want you to pm your aps, are mostly not worth going with.

StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear · November 2011

Thanks for the advice guys!
Looks like im staying sage.

Just got my TT99 Orns!! WOOT 2 more pieces to go

thumbs · November 2011

fookadook wrote: »

Hey guys.
Currently I am a lvl 100 Sage sin.

I have been contemplating on whether to join the dark side(Demon)
I love the sage sins because their skills dominate, thats why I chose it, I never knew the demon spark made such a big difference when it comes to APS

It makes no difference to base aps. You get stunned, slept, w/e by bosses and all of the sudden you're survivability diminishes greatly where sage has 3% BP and Wind Shield on demand.

The cons of a Sage sin -
-Costs more to obtain APS
-Trade off Genie skills for APS (could be using genie skills for other things)

For Nirvana: Everyone else is debuffing; everyone else drools over your BP. For solo: Tangling Mire + Windshield is practically spammable on moderate genies.

Converting to demon would only be just until I have all the gear I need to get higher in APS, its currently really hard to get into Nirvana squads to get my gear.
(Which will take forever, since it will require a Pan Gu/Love: Up and Down tome)

If you get pan gu, there's no reason to go demon. Pan Gu should = 4 aps base which most demons don't seem to have.

Questions:
-Do you think it will be worth it to change to demon since I only need these few pieces of gears left?

Level an alt and share equips through account stash if you want a demon sin. -Get 2x the Nirvana keys, BH 100s, and get to change back and forth at will.

-Does Sage BP really make that much of a difference? everyone seems to kill for it lol.

I'm asked practically daily if I have sage BP by players that have long been using it. They can't even tell the difference themselves. At lower level it was noticeable getting buffed with it. Like demon spark helping the healing: it really matters on whether you're doing dmg or not at the time. Sage spark increases your defense (left out of equation). Defense requires less HP for survival, doesn't require as much healing, and works regardless of whether you're doing dmg or not.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · November 2011

**** APS , U can obtain 4aps base as a sage with every int gear available and still be perma sparked. Also doing the lvl 100 culti just to change and lose all the money u spent for ur sage skills seems much worthless ...... better make a new sin ....

chuckybug · December 2011

A tiny bit off topic but
why windshield stack with sage spark and not with demon spark?

Olbaze - Sanctuary · December 2011

chuckybug wrote: »

A tiny bit off topic but
why windshield stack with sage spark and not with demon spark?

Because Sage Spark does not have an attack speed buff.

The damage reducing effect on Windshield does not stack with Sage spark, though.

bubbelgirl · December 2011

chuckybug wrote: »

A tiny bit off topic but
why windshield stack with sage spark and not with demon spark?

Windshield doesn't stacck with demon-spark for the aps improvement.
I'm sage101 myself,& i've got a dex built genie. with 100dex my windshield lvl1 gives me 5aps for 10 sec & @ the cost of only 35 energie, so with recovery of energie i can use it 4-5 times in a row, that is

zhimo · December 2011

Hey,

Im Pretty much stuck now and i cant decide, what to choose.

My current build: http://pwcalc.com/a427c0942f5fbfb3

Im thinking about, going Sage, because 4 base Aps would be 4 base aps in Sage.

Now my question is:
What deals more Damage, Demon Spark with 5 aps and Demon Dagger Devotion

or

Sage Spark 4 aps with Sage Dagger Devotion.

I know that i can reach 5aps with Windshield but on hard bosses it pretty much cancels the sage spark (kinda).

The next question is, would it be better to go 2. Recast to deal even more damage? would that compare to sage BP?

The biggest reason for me to go sage would be, the high survivability on hard bosses like emporer in 3-2/3-3, the last boss in 2-3 (under the platform) or better said: overall survivability against bosses and not being addicted to a cleric.

Thank you b:pleased

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · December 2011

zhimo wrote: »

Now my question is:
What deals more Damage, Demon Spark with 5 aps and Demon Dagger Devotion

or

Sage Spark 4 aps with Sage Dagger Devotion.

Endgame, demon dagger devotion is better than sage dagger devotion (2% crit becomes better than the +15% base dmg). Demon 5 aps would do almost 25% more dmg than sage 4 aps with their devotions. If you changed to a more pure build (got rid of the extra vit, str, magic) than demon 4 aps would out dd sage 4 aps. If you upgraded your weapon shard, demon 4 aps would beat sage 4 aps. If you had a second shard, demon 4 aps would beat sage 4 aps. Right now though, sage dps calcs to 82.95k and demon calcs to 82.89k.

zhimo · December 2011

So with my current build/equipment i would do more DMG with Sage?

It doesnt matter to me, if im doing a bit less dmg compare to much better survivability.

I want to change the current perfect shard in my weapon to a garnet gem but not a second socket.

Is the demon damage so much more then sage? on easy bosses i have 5 aps anyway with sage because of windshield.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · December 2011

I was showing you both damages at 4 aps to show you that demon mastery actually gives you more damage on endgame weapons. Comparing 4 aps sage to 5 aps demon, then demon would do 25% more damage. For me thats about 1500-2000hp more in bp heals per second on [ ? ]. Most bosses attack every 3 seconds so 4500-6000 heal is way more than what 25% sage damage reduction would prevent, so the "survivability" factor of sage vs. demon spark is debatable.

zhimo · December 2011

well tbh, your BP heals seems very unrealistic, even for r9 weapon.

when you heal 1500-2000HP more every second when you jump from 4 to 5 aps, then that would mean, you heal every second on ? bosses only with BP 6000-8000HP.

That would mean, nothing can stop you

.

Unrealistic numbers are unrealistic and i have G13.

When i hit with demon spark, lets say Coredash: Null the first TT 3-1 boss.

Normal Hits are between 3-4k DMG, Bloodsuck is around 90~110
Crits are 8~9k with Wolf without any debuffs on and that would be 180~ bloodsuck.

for me, the bloodsuck would really jump higher to 150~ normal and 300~ bloodsuck with crits and i can have 5aps.

But thank you b:bye

thumbs · December 2011

Don't know why people debate numbers while leaving out situations. Mobs and bosses kite, stun, seal, etc. Sage and Demons imbue and choose their gear differently. Not all sins erupt at each mob. If you want the cheap road to aps; go demon. -Just stop asking me if I have sage BP ffs.

Dekita - Lost City · December 2011

there is another genie skill to increase aps
its called Relentless courage req 2wood 2 earth and 1 fire affinity,
if ur genie has 80 str it will increase ur aps by 25% (same as demon spark) for 8 seconds and had a 30 sec cooldown.
not completely spammable but not far from it imo,
also with 80 str in genie ur tangling mire is alot more affective hope this information was helpfull b:pleased

Sage Sin vs Aps vs Windshield/Genie Skill - Trade offs

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