Why upgrade to Grade 15 Nirvana Fists/Claws?
Motoko - Raging Tide
Posts: 250 Arc User
I just don't see the point of going for g15 claws/fists. There is a <.5% chance of getting -.05 Interval 2x. So the only way to hit 5atk per second with them is to be demon spark and have Nirvana legs + tome + cape + mixed 99 set, and still that is banking on the ~10% chance you have to get atleast one -.05 interval add -_-.
That leaves 3 weapons that have -.1 interval.
Lunar 95, G13 Nirvana claws, and TT100 fists.
Deicide and Wndpour both refine as if they were g15, and Striking Dragon as only g13.
Striking Dragon and Windpour have the same base dmg, Deicide is about 80 behind.
So that leaves the best fist/claw weapon contest between Striking Dragon and g13 nirvana (windpour/regicide).
Striking Dragon has better adds for pure damage, and is always 2 sockets. Where as nirvana has better refining bonus and shaprtooth + vit.
I bring this up sort of as a way of thinking aloud. I was planning to only refine my Windpour to +5, but now that I see how it is very very hard to hit 5 atk/sec with g15 nirvana, I may just use the g13 as my endgame.
That leaves 3 weapons that have -.1 interval.
Lunar 95, G13 Nirvana claws, and TT100 fists.
Deicide and Wndpour both refine as if they were g15, and Striking Dragon as only g13.
Striking Dragon and Windpour have the same base dmg, Deicide is about 80 behind.
So that leaves the best fist/claw weapon contest between Striking Dragon and g13 nirvana (windpour/regicide).
Striking Dragon has better adds for pure damage, and is always 2 sockets. Where as nirvana has better refining bonus and shaprtooth + vit.
I bring this up sort of as a way of thinking aloud. I was planning to only refine my Windpour to +5, but now that I see how it is very very hard to hit 5 atk/sec with g15 nirvana, I may just use the g13 as my endgame.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot
Post edited by Motoko - Raging Tide on
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Comments
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I just tried it out on PW calculator, Striking Dragon still has higher DPS. So imo **** nirvana fists, TT100 is endgame.0
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Depend on how you define your "end-game" and of course your budget. I guess what's so special about G15 is higher base damage, higher refine bonus and the path to unlock attack level, and it looks damn awesome. G15 guarantees this awesome stat- Berserk/Advanced Berserk, or 3%/4% critical for the worse. The rest 2 may be -interval and critical if you're lucky. I think the Berserk can be better than a -0.5 IBH. Don't know how the Advanced Berserk works, though.0
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berserk is a proc, which also lowers your def. interval -.1 is always there. I define endgame as TT100. However you are correct that demon nirvana fists look SO FRICKIN AWESOME!0
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Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »I just tried it out on PW calculator, Striking Dragon still has higher DPS. So imo **** nirvana fists, TT100 is endgame.
PWcalc is wrong about the refine bonus of Deicide and Windpour/Regicide. All 3 weapons refine for more than tt100.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
We go Nirvana because the adds for TT100 and Deicide both kinda suck for pvp. Much better to gain extra damage while healing, or if possible the purge proc that they have on chinese version. Right now we have information on niirvana, but no real in-game demonstration of whether it is true for this version. Database is likely wrong about the adds and probabilities on them for Nirvana, and even there they don't have probability posted yet. So no idea where the <.5% was pulled from.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
huh you might be right. Hopefully Telarith can clarify which one has more dps, now its looking like Windpour to me.0
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did you go windpour over regicide cuz it was cheaper?0
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Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »berserk is a proc, which also lowers your def. interval -.1 is always there. I define endgame as TT100. However you are correct that demon nirvana fists look SO FRICKIN AWESOME!
But it's worth it. What if you get this so-called Advanced Berserk? Rumor: "Advanced Berserk: Has a chance to inflict 300%-500% damage at the cost of 5% HP, becomes immune to all negative effects for 4 seconds, but u will loose all your vigor instantly." (http://sites.google.com/site/perfectworldproject/coming-soon/recasting)0 -
that would be advanced sacrificial strike in this version.0
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Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »We go Nirvana because the adds for TT100 and Deicide both kinda suck for pvp. Much better to gain extra damage while healing, or if possible the purge proc that they have on chinese version. Right now we have information on niirvana, but no real in-game demonstration of whether it is true for this version. Database is likely wrong about the adds and probabilities on them for Nirvana, and even there they don't have probability posted yet. So no idea where the <.5% was pulled from.
i disagree that deicides adds are bad for pvp. deicides hp lowering ability is definately useful fighting any person with high amount of hp (especially barbs)0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »We go Nirvana because the adds for TT100 and Deicide both kinda suck for pvp. Much better to gain extra damage while healing, or if possible the purge proc that they have on chinese version. Right now we have information on niirvana, but no real in-game demonstration of whether it is true for this version. Database is likely wrong about the adds and probabilities on them for Nirvana, and even there they don't have probability posted yet. So no idea where the <.5% was pulled from.
There appears to be around 15-20 adds you can get. According to PWDB, Chinese sights, etc. If each has an equal chance of occuring then there is a .25% - .444% chance of getting -.05 interval twice. or a ~10%-13% chance of getting it once...
Now even assuming that you can get g15 with -.05 interval (lol 70 more crystals on avg) and you can hit 5atk/sec demon sparked (lol tome and nirvana legs). Your attack speed will still be significantly slower unsparked than someone using the -.1 interval weapons. Idk about you, but I spend the majority of my PK time unsparked.
Now maybe everything I've seen on g15 fists/claws is wrong (I hope) and they come with -.1 interval automatically (they should, or devs are ****), but as it stands now g15 looks like a downgrade over g13, or tt100.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »Now maybe everything I've seen on g15 fists/claws is wrong (I hope) and they come with -.1 interval automatically (they should, or devs are ****), but as it stands now g15 looks like a downgrade over g13, or tt100.
I'm not sure it would be a downgrade, but it definitely wouldn't be an upgrade... more damage per hit, slower attacks per second unless you could get two .05, which as you post is quite unlikely and at 7 Raptures per reroll, would get really expensive quite quickly.
The Nirvana fists look so cool though... lolI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
I still want to know if G13 claws or TT100 has more dps. Why does TT100 refine for less, when they are both G13?0
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To be honest no nirvana weapons really appeal to me as a warrior. You will obviously have an increase in damage with nirvana fists but it isn't much compared to other weapons such as bows/magic weapons due to the fact the main source of damage for fists is the -interval. A loss of 0.05~0.1 is massive when you have every other source of -interval. Couple that with a 20-25% crit rate and those extra hits you are losing for higher damage almost don't seem worth 250 rapture crystals.
If I had 250 rapture crystals I would probably get a nirvana axe or spear. For me my axe is only used for drake bash, dragon and aoeing groups mainly in tw. Sacrificial strike is pretty much mandatory for me and while a gx is suitable for this the next step to get zerk is gold OHT which only really surpasses gx with better stats and higher refine. Nirvana spear is also a good option because afaik it can get sacrificial strike too. I really only use my spear for farstrike and demon meteor rush but again I much prefer a powerful skill such as farstrike have the ability to do 4x damage. The reason why I wouldn't get a nirvana spear is because the cv gold one already has zerk and it isn't grade 11 like gx.
Either way a warrior should focus on the nirvana legs first as really a nirvana weapon doesn't appeal to someone with a limited amount of coin/time.0 -
Look like I gotta get some 10* orbs for these claws thenb:shocked. I'll stick with Windpor as my endgame. Now to go get my hands on 250 crystals for Axes. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
Maybe developers hate fists after they got owned by GM fists. And knowing that TT100 fist is already way overpowered, the new expansion is their excuses to downgrade fist. b:surrender0
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Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »There appears to be around 15-20 adds you can get. According to PWDB, Chinese sights, etc. If each has an equal chance of occuring then there is a .25% - .444% chance of getting -.05 interval twice. or a ~10%-13% chance of getting it once...
Now even assuming that you can get g15 with -.05 interval (lol 70 more crystals on avg) and you can hit 5atk/sec demon sparked (lol tome and nirvana legs). Your attack speed will still be significantly slower unsparked than someone using the -.1 interval weapons. Idk about you, but I spend the majority of my PK time unsparked.
Now maybe everything I've seen on g15 fists/claws is wrong (I hope) and they come with -.1 interval automatically (they should, or devs are ****), but as it stands now g15 looks like a downgrade over g13, or tt100.
Usually there is only so many abilities you can get per weapon type, unless they decided to change it with just this one instance. Also, the picture posted from chinese server had -.1 interval as just one of the adds, which may mean the sites are incorrect as well. Becuase only listed -.05 as a possible add. So just the existence of the add on the server alone proves the sites wrong on their information.Nevlik - Heavens Tear wrote: »i disagree that deicides adds are bad for pvp. deicides hp lowering ability is definately useful fighting any person with high amount of hp (especially barbs)
And deicides are bad in that few people will actually be of benefit to have it. Only on barbs mainly, but there is kinda something wrong with it as well. If you need the proc to kill it, then you're screwed when it doesn't. If you can kill it without the proc, then the proc really didn't matter. Would rather have damage increase that is guaranteed to help kill, or purge proc that will actively help in taking someone down than a proc that must come before a charm tick to even be useful.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »And deicides are bad in that few people will actually be of benefit to have it. Only on barbs mainly, but there is kinda something wrong with it as well. If you need the proc to kill it, then you're screwed when it doesn't. If you can kill it without the proc, then the proc really didn't matter. Would rather have damage increase that is guaranteed to help kill, or purge proc that will actively help in taking someone down than a proc that must come before a charm tick to even be useful.
I have to disagree with you here. Deicide are by far the best fist weapons for pve and pvp purposes and here's why:
1. With high attack rate the chances of procs appearing is insanely high.
2. You take off about 9% of any mob/boss/character's health in a heartbeat, which helps tremendously to take down anything quickly.
3. The claws look awesome.
4. If you have lots of minus intervals, then you'll be able to replenish triple spark by the time it ends.0 -
Pinball_Map - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have to disagree with you here. Deicide are by far the best fist weapons for pve and pvp purposes and here's why:
1. With high attack rate the chances of procs appearing is insanely high.
2. You take off about 9% of any mob/boss/character's health in a heartbeat, which helps tremendously to take down anything quickly.
3. The claws look awesome.
4. If you have lots of minus intervals, then you'll be able to replenish triple spark by the time it ends.
Even though TT100 doesn't refine as well as Deicide, they have +4% crit and +Maximum Physical Attack. At +10 the TT100 still does a higher average continuous damage, and +12 they're about even, provided they're both two socket.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Pinball_Map - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have to disagree with you here. Deicide are by far the best fist weapons for pve and pvp purposes and here's why:
1. With high attack rate the chances of procs appearing is insanely high.
2. You take off about 9% of any mob/boss/character's health in a heartbeat, which helps tremendously to take down anything quickly.
3. The claws look awesome.
4. If you have lots of minus intervals, then you'll be able to replenish triple spark by the time it ends.
This post rendered mostly useless due to not reading the thread and posting at random.
So far this thread is going off a realization that I posted about 4 months ago, so it's not really too interesting for new information. This was before the TB update was done, and based off of the chinese site much the same as OP was. But to make posts relevant to the game, you have to keep current with the new information. And new information points towards Nirvana having the -.1 interval as a possible add, which would be real sweet if the 2 minor ones are both that.
As to the points of the above post:
1. Not very high proc rate, and for PvP the proc itself is pretty useless if it hits while you're working on killing them after charm tick. And other procs can do a more consistent guaranteed boost which would be more useful for PvP and PvE.
2. 10% if it procs early, and on many bosses outside TT won't hit early enough. Also, if archer in the group, doesn't matter anyways; their debuff is guaranteed to be better so renders our health debuff useless that whole fight.
3. Snozberries taste like snozberries.
4. Duh, that has nothing to do with soul infect though. Read the thread title for the whole idea behind all the posts. Well, most of them.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »This post rendered mostly useless due to not reading the thread and posting at random.
So far this thread is going off a realization that I posted about 4 months ago, so it's not really too interesting for new information. This was before the TB update was done, and based off of the chinese site much the same as OP was. But to make posts relevant to the game, you have to keep current with the new information. And new information points towards Nirvana having the -.1 interval as a possible add, which would be real sweet if the 2 minor ones are both that.
As to the points of the above post:
1. Not very high proc rate, and for PvP the proc itself is pretty useless if it hits while you're working on killing them after charm tick. And other procs can do a more consistent guaranteed boost which would be more useful for PvP and PvE.
2. 10% if it procs early, and on many bosses outside TT won't hit early enough. Also, if archer in the group, doesn't matter anyways; their debuff is guaranteed to be better so renders our health debuff useless that whole fight.
3. Snozberries taste like snozberries.
4. Duh, that has nothing to do with soul infect though. Read the thread title for the whole idea behind all the posts. Well, most of them.
If you're talking about the screenshot of g15 nirvana fists with advanced soul shatter +2 range and -.1 interval all I can say is. Obvious photoshop is obvious.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
hello i have reforged my g15 fists manny times and get bersek-friensed rage and atck lvl20
the bersek and friensed rage atc rate status dont stack whit the spark one and frienzed rage drop your aps to 3.33 if your 4 aps sparked........ so is **** and also give you HF status :S
BERSEK only make you take 30% more dmg not 100% like friensed rage
i have never get 1 of this stats whit a -.05 add
33 reforges so jut DONT GO G15 FISTS0 -
Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »I just don't see the point of going for g15 claws/fists. There is a <.5% chance of getting -.05 Interval 2x. So the only way to hit 5atk per second with them is to be demon spark and have Nirvana legs + tome + cape + mixed 99 set, and still that is banking on the ~10% chance you have to get atleast one -.05 interval add -_-.
That leaves 3 weapons that have -.1 interval.
Lunar 95, G13 Nirvana claws, and TT100 fists.
Deicide and Wndpour both refine as if they were g15, and Striking Dragon as only g13.
Striking Dragon and Windpour have the same base dmg, Deicide is about 80 behind.
So that leaves the best fist/claw weapon contest between Striking Dragon and g13 nirvana (windpour/regicide).
Striking Dragon has better adds for pure damage, and is always 2 sockets. Where as nirvana has better refining bonus and shaprtooth + vit.
I bring this up sort of as a way of thinking aloud. I was planning to only refine my Windpour to +5, but now that I see how it is very very hard to hit 5 atk/sec with g15 nirvana, I may just use the g13 as my endgame.
Id vote the Striking Dragon's tbh. I have them on my sin, and when i was trying to choose fist/ claws, i looked at the averages of both and compared each to a 15 sec. damage over time (DoT) + damage/ hit comparison, finding that the fists would offer me the damage consistancy i wanted. I'd say ask your self what your crit rate is, 'cause unless your strictly a dex bm with some ungodly crit rate, a consistent base damage with some bonus crit and -int will probably benefit you more. Hit HARD, and let crits be icing on the cake... or hit a lil less and depend on the crits. Being a bm id go so far to assume that you use axe's as well, and spending any energy boosting your crit rate with stat points you'll probably find to be waste full when your counting on axe damage. Lastly, the Striking Dragons can still be upgraded( http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14874 ) so you still have an option to use claws/fists if you find that you really need more.0 -
NECROOO!!!!!!!Fays - Raging Tide wrote: »Id vote the Striking Dragon's tbh. I have them on my sin, and when i was trying to choose fist/ claws, i looked at the averages of both and compared each to a 15 sec. damage over time (DoT) + damage/ hit comparison, finding that the fists would offer me the damage consistancy i wanted. I'd say ask your self what your crit rate is, 'cause unless your strictly a dex bm with some ungodly crit rate, a consistent base damage with some bonus crit and -int will probably benefit you more. Hit HARD, and let crits be icing on the cake... or hit a lil less and depend on the crits. Being a bm id go so far to assume that you use axe's as well, and spending any energy boosting your crit rate with stat points you'll probably find to be waste full when your counting on axe damage. Lastly, the Striking Dragons can still be upgraded( ) so you still have an option to use claws/fists if you find that you really need more.
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