Can the plane take off?

Nigoshi - Raging Tide
Nigoshi - Raging Tide Posts: 218 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Tideswell (East)
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?
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Post edited by Nigoshi - Raging Tide on

Comments

  • soulhunter1987
    soulhunter1987 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    As far as i know it cant since it dont move forward therefor cant lift off
  • Lavoslav - Raging Tide
    Lavoslav - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nigoshi - Raging Tide wrote: »
    A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?

    Dear Nigoshi,
    its simple. In order for plane to take off it needs lift. Lift is created when particles of air flow around aerodynamic profile (wings). When you manage to get resultant aerodynamic force to extend the weight of plane your plane will take off.

    To make it simple. In theory, it can take off while standing still if you have enough wind speed.

    To be more precise, you need to know: weight of plane, wing profile, surface of wings, drag created by plane. When you have that, you can calculate the speed of wind needed for that plane to take of while standing still.
    Moving band conveyer does not have anything to do with ability of that plane to take off (well, maybe some minor turbulence).

    Kind Regards,
    Lavoslav
  • SoulPlay - Heavens Tear
    SoulPlay - Heavens Tear Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    it will take off i did this experiment for a project the force of the belt rotating backwards still sends the plane forwards
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  • Greymark - Raging Tide
    Greymark - Raging Tide Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Nigoshi - Raging Tide wrote: »
    A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?

    Its a trick question nigoshi, planes technically have no legs there for they can't "stand" on the runway.
  • Lana - Raging Tide
    Lana - Raging Tide Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Must be the lamest trick question ive ever read.
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  • SoulPlay - Heavens Tear
    SoulPlay - Heavens Tear Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    anything that supports its own weight "stands"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Q83yxdDaI

    this is what i think he was asking
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  • snufalufaguss
    snufalufaguss Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I seen that episode. The plane takes off because the the propeller is what pulls if forward, not the wheels.
  • Greymark - Raging Tide
    Greymark - Raging Tide Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    anything that supports its own weight "stands"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Q83yxdDaI

    this is what i think he was asking

    I see you are still knew to the whole "sarcasm joke" thing.
  • Nigoshi - Raging Tide
    Nigoshi - Raging Tide Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Lana - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Must be the lamest trick question ive ever read.
    Actually it's wasn't intended to be a trick question ijs, essentially it could have read "A plane is (sitting/laying) on a runway..." because, how else would you describe a plane as being on a runway, really? so SoulPlay's link is legit. Even if i hoped no one would post it in afterthought. b:chuckle
    Wait...Wait...There will be large posterior wenches?! -Impatiens

    youtube.com/NigoshiPwiRT - Blademaster PvP videos and TW
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    C'mon Nigo, you can do better than this bro...
  • XKruelx - Raging Tide
    XKruelx - Raging Tide Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Should learn how planes work, as in how they actually fly. Go google Bernoulli effect and what generates lift. That should answer this question.
  • DuckTapez - Archosaur
    DuckTapez - Archosaur Posts: 855 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YORCk1BN7QY
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    Duct tape is like The Force: bright on one side, dark on the other. It holds the world together, and, if not handled correctly, becomes a sticky mess.
  • AriesBreath - Raging Tide
    AriesBreath - Raging Tide Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a jet powered plane should yield different results from a front propeller plane.

    The test that mythbusters did was with a front propeller plane, where the wind (lift) actually comes from the propeller in the front of the plane, simulating a similar lift (albeit smaller) from the slipstream of the propeller, to that which the wings would take from running on a normal runway. Once the plane got even the tiniest bit airborne, it would be free of the conveyor belt and able to fly. The wheels probably spun a lot faster than normal, and it would probably have taken more power but it would have been possible to take off, theoretically.

    However, with a back jet powered plane, there is no wind/lift hitting the wings without the plane moving in displacement with a certain amount of speed, i.e. if the plane remains stationary. It should therefore not be able to take off.

    Another thing you have to factor in is initial bursts of speed from the power up of the plane/conveyor belt. Running speed has to remain equal throughout the experiment. Both would have to start at the same time with the same speed, and same initial start up speed for the experiment to be accurate.

    Lift comes from the amount of wind hitting the wings, not how fast the wheels spin.
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  • INexperience - Raging Tide
    INexperience - Raging Tide Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited November 2011
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  • soulhunter1987
    soulhunter1987 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    so in the case of frontpropeller put much more force in the propeller and it will work. the other plane that only bases on their wings wont work right?
  • linhcra
    linhcra Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a jet powered plane should yield different results from a front propeller plane.

    The test that mythbusters did was with a front propeller plane, where the wind (lift) actually comes from the propeller in the front of the plane, simulating a similar lift (albeit smaller) from the slipstream of the propeller, to that which the wings would take from running on a normal runway. Once the plane got even the tiniest bit airborne, it would be free of the conveyor belt and able to fly. The wheels probably spun a lot faster than normal, and it would probably have taken more power but it would have been possible to take off, theoretically.

    However, with a back jet powered plane, there is no wind/lift hitting the wings without the plane moving in displacement with a certain amount of speed, i.e. if the plane remains stationary. It should therefore not be able to take off.

    Another thing you have to factor in is initial bursts of speed from the power up of the plane/conveyor belt. Running speed has to remain equal throughout the experiment. Both would have to start at the same time with the same speed, and same initial start up speed for the experiment to be accurate.

    Lift comes from the amount of wind hitting the wings, not how fast the wheels spin.

    You're wrong.

    The propeller is simply a method of propulsion and does not provide lift to the wings. In fact, some propeller aircraft have them behind the wings or even in the back of the plane. Airplanes, prop or jet, will yield same results since they are moved forward by the propulsion from their engines against the air and not their tires (like cars). The only thing that will happen by doing this is that the plane's tires will spin faster. There would be no need for additional power and the takeoff from the airplane's PoV would be the same as any normal takeoff (except for the faster spinning tires).
  • AriesBreath - Raging Tide
    AriesBreath - Raging Tide Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    linhcra wrote: »
    You're wrong.

    The propeller is simply a method of propulsion and does not provide lift to the wings. In fact, some propeller aircraft have them behind the wings or even in the back of the plane. Airplanes, prop or jet, will yield same results since they are moved forward by the propulsion from their engines against the air and not their tires (like cars). The only thing that will happen by doing this is that the plane's tires will spin faster. There would be no need for additional power and the takeoff from the airplane's PoV would be the same as any normal takeoff (except for the faster spinning tires).

    So are you saying that planes can take off with naught displacement?
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  • linhcra
    linhcra Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    The plane will move forward because of the engines and has nothing to do with the runway moving. You are not thinking about this correctly and seem to be stuck on the runway moving against the airplane. The runway is not a factor in this case and does not stop the airplane from generating forward movement.
  • AriesBreath - Raging Tide
    AriesBreath - Raging Tide Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    linhcra wrote: »
    The plane will move forward because of the engines and has nothing to do with the runway moving. You are not thinking about this correctly and seem to be stuck on the runway moving against the airplane. The runway is not a factor in this case and does not stop the airplane from generating forward movement.

    After further thought, I see what you mean with the planes moving forward regardless of the runway. The wheels, in theory, negate the conveyor belt, and will only spin faster as the plane is propelled forward as compared to a normal take off.

    However, does the mass of the plane affect this logic?
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  • Kali - Raging Tide
    Kali - Raging Tide Posts: 798 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Who cares? b:cute
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Kali - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Who cares? b:cute

    this.
  • Revenge - Raging Tide
    Revenge - Raging Tide Posts: 834 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Kali - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Who cares? b:cute

    this +9000
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    Spell_Caster: "+1 Revenge or should I say...Nuff_Said?

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  • Greymark - Raging Tide
    Greymark - Raging Tide Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    revenge - Raging Tide wrote: »
    this +9000
    +9001
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    greymark - Raging Tide wrote: »
    +9001

    +9002

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